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1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Thanks to James and Cindy at FWDPerformance for all the help with my project.
Dyno run in my T3 powered 1986 Daytona.
Aem EMS-4 Stand Alone tuner.
474whp@7000RPM 545hp@Crank
26psi with a 60/40 93oct/E85 blend
Stock intake manifold, fuel rail, and exhaust manifold.
Finally able to get some full passes in with the wider sticker drag radials and get my profec spec 2 to control boost.
Car is capable of so much more, but I do not want to push my luck with the stock T3 rods. I have a fully built race motor to go in, this was just a test and tune motor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6biRH8iRr4
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
A little history...
I bought this car in 1999 for $500 from the backlot of a kia dealership.
1986 dodge daytona turbo z c/s. Originally a white ext maroon int, turbo i, 5 speed manual trans car. After blowing a hole in the a525 trans housing, trans was upgraded to a heavy duty a568 getrag unit and a spirit r/t stock clutch, boost was also increased to 14psi from the stock 9psi. Car ran very well for about a year. The boost and aggressive driving finally took its toll on the original engine(had 125k on it).
Upgraded to a t2 motor from a 88 shelby z and a new turbo from tu. Car ran like a dream.
After that i bought a spirit r/t. That was it, so much easier to make power with the dohc motor. It had a stock 1991 dohc motor with a custom cal.(set at 20psi), 20 inj., and 3" mb exhaust. This was installed as a test fit/function before paint work was done.
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Awesome! Would love to hear more details on the setup. Have anymore pics of this monster?
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Since I am very lazy, I only posted pics here:
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...urbo-z-t3.html
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
lengel
Awesome! Would love to hear more details on the setup. Have anymore pics of this monster?
I also cant wait to install your intake:eyebrows: Right now I am just running a stocker:yuck:
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
I've been wondering what was going to come out of those youtube videos you've been uploading. Have to admit i was not guessing numbers that high from the videos, very nice!
What cams and turbo?
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Cam are stockers, head is ported, turbo is a godspeed gt35, I know, I know, but it has behaved very well so far. I was not sure how big I wanted to go on the turbo so it did not make sense to fork out $1500 untill I was happy with the size that would work on my combo. I am ordering a comp triple ball bearing very soon. Again this was just my test motor, most of the parts on it are stock stuff or whatever I had laying around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdol8vlF16w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh5Gw7K0ufo
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vigo
I've been wondering what was going to come out of those youtube videos you've been uploading. Have to admit i was not guessing numbers that high from the videos, very nice!
what #s would you expect from a cell phone video?:confused:
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
It just didnt have any drama with the engine looking like it was about to tear out of the engine bay or anything like that. Usually if something is making a lot of power it LOOKS like it in the dyno video even if you dont show any numbers. That's all i was trying to say. :p
Im surprised you're making peak power @ 7000 on stock cams. Makes me wonder if there is any point to aftermarket cams for 99% of builds, since usually the whole point of a cam on a turbo engine is to move the powerband up.
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
What do you mean don't show the #'s? Have I not posted a couple of my dyno sheets? If I knew there was going to be doubt on the #'s I would have had a 3rd party come in to verify. Next time I will pan to the screen to show the #'s. What would I have to gain by putting up bogus #'s? This attitude right here is why I stay off the boards.
We dyno tons of cars in the 450hp range and none of them sound like they are coming apart. I guess its quality of the build and tune.
Pretty much ever car in this video was in the 400-600hp range, all of them sound fine to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8AlKgOvfjM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
turboshelbys
What do you mean don't show the #'s? Have I not posted a couple of my dyno sheets? If I knew there was going to be doubt on the #'s I would have had a 3rd party come in to verify. Next time I will pan to the screen to show the #'s. What would I have to gain by putting up bogus #'s? This attitude right here is why I stay off the boards.
We dyno tons of cars in the 450hp range and none of them sound like they are coming apart. I guess its quality of the build and tune.
Pretty much ever car in this video was in the 400-600hp range, all of them sound fine to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8AlKgOvfjM
He is talking about chassis and engine movement, not sound. So you have posted a dyno chart? I wanna see :D
The part of the story where another R/T got parted out seems missing?
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ondonti
He is talking about chassis and engine movement, not sound. So you have posted a dyno chart? I wanna see :D
The part of the story where another R/T got parted out seems missing?
in post #4 I have linked
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vigo
It just didnt have any drama with the engine looking like it was about to tear out of the engine bay or anything like that. Usually if something is making a lot of power it LOOKS like it in the dyno video even if you dont show any numbers. That's all i was trying to say. :p
Im surprised you're making peak power @ 7000 on stock cams. Makes me wonder if there is any point to aftermarket cams for 99% of builds, since usually the whole point of a cam on a turbo engine is to move the powerband up.
I guess the ported head and decent sized turbo moved peaked power to the right even with stock cams.
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
If you look at my build pictures you can see why my car isn't flopping and twitching. 6 point roll cage, reinforced front end(2x4 box tube 1/4thick), and rear end lock down kit.
I didn't just take a t3 motor and slam it in and and run it. Everything on this car has been replaced with new parts and I do mean everything.
I am also running an excellent stand alone system with unbelievable tuning capabilities and adjustments(AEM EMS-4)
If you look at these two videos, you can see the rear suspension spring up and down. This was before I finished the old school lock down kit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh5Gw7K0ufo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdol8vlF16w
after lock down kit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6biRH8iRr4
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
here is the very first pull we did. this was @36psi up to 5450rpm without having tuned timing or fuel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgFcF8LiDDw
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
What do you mean don't show the #'s? Have I not posted a couple of my dyno sheets? If I knew there was going to be doubt on the #'s I would have had a 3rd party come in to verify. Next time I will pan to the screen to show the #'s. What would I have to gain by putting up bogus #'s? This attitude right here is why I stay off the boards.
I was not trying to accuse you of misleading anyone. I just happened to notice the videos you were uploading well before you actually posted any information about anything and since the videos themselves show no numbers, i was left to guess and did not guess the car was performing as well as it was. This is just a casual observation, not an insult or questioning your results. As Brent said i was mostly looking at engine movement.
What is the rear end lock down kit?
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Sweet car, 86 Zs have always been a favorite of mine.
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Also, anyone who knows me will tell you that I do not build my cars half A$$ed. Before I even start messing with engine/performance mods(except mild stuff) I make sure the rest of the car will handle the extra power. I have been in some very serious crashes in both my racing and personal life and no doubt this has changed my approach when I build a car.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
WLKivett
Sweet car, 86 Zs have always been a favorite of mine.
Thanks, mine too! This was my very first TD.
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vigo
I was not trying to accuse you of misleading anyone. I just happened to notice the videos you were uploading well before you actually posted any information about anything and since the videos themselves show no numbers, i was left to guess and did not guess the car was performing as well as it was. This is just a casual observation, not an insult or questioning your results. As Brent said i was mostly looking at engine movement.
What is the rear end lock down kit?
Trust me engine is not going anywhere. If you look at the pics I have posted you can see where I added the extra strength. It is also locked in on all four corners with PB mounts.
The lock down kit is old school, taken from Gary Donovan. Airshocks being held down by cables and adj. minimizing rear end travel, but still allowing the suspension to work.
post #14 second picture
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...urbo-z-t3.html
If I could figure out how to post pics on here I would.
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Thank, mine too! This was my very first TD.[/QUOTE]
Nice ride!! '84 Daytona turbo that I bought in '86 was my first TD. That car still gets talked about by those that remember it. Spanked a bunch of V8 powered cars with it!
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
turboshelbys
If I could figure out how to post pics on here I would.
Upload pictures to photobucket, then use the link/url to link to the picture.
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
My buddy's older brother got an 83 GLH new as his first car. My buddy got a new 86 turbo Z with t-tops. It was bada$$. he worked at an audio shop. He won quite a few db contests with his turbo Z u till a Cadillac swished it. I did'n quite have the funds to by new. Got my first TM 87 shelby charger in 1990. Best $3,700 I ever spent.
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tryingbe
Upload pictures to photobucket, then use the link/url to link to the picture.
you know me Harry, what the hell is a photobucket?
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WLKivett
My buddy's older brother got an 83 GLH new as his first car. My buddy got a new 86 turbo Z with t-tops. It was bada$$. he worked at an audio shop. He won quite a few db contests with his turbo Z u till a Cadillac swished it. I did'n quite have the funds to by new. Got my first TM 87 shelby charger in 1990. Best $3,700 I ever spent.
yeah I actually had a lebaron g_t_s 4 door sedan that I bought when I was in the army in 91 but It overheated and i left on the side of the freeway in ohio. I wonder whatever happened to it
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
turboshelbys
you know me Harry, what the hell is a photobucket?
http://photobucket.com/
Sign up with an account.
Then upload the pictures.
Let me know when you're at that point, then we can move onto the next steps.
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Most, if not all, of these pictures are at least as old as august last year. there has been many more improvements and changes since then. I do not think I will ever be done modifying/improving the car.
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http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/tu...ona Turbo Z T3
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
turboshelbys
Ready I think...
First, to go to the picture you want to upload in your photo bucket account.
Then, go to the DIRECT, highlight and copy of the URL/link. You RIGHT click after you highlight to get the copy menu up.
http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe.../howtopic1.jpg
Then go to the thread and click on the little picture for inserting the photo
http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe.../howtopic2.jpg
Then window will pop up
http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe.../howtopic3.jpg
Paste the URL/link in there and click ok
http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe.../howtopic4.jpg
When you see this, you're done. When you click reply, picture will show.
This is also how you can manually type in the code to get your picture showing,, instead of clicking on the "insert image" icon.
http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe.../howtopic5.jpg
There is a limit on how many picture you can post in one thread, so stick with 5 pictures per post and you'll be fine.
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tryingbe
First, to go to the picture you want to upload in your photo bucket account. There is a limit on how many picture you can post in one thread, so stick with 5 pictures per post and you'll be fine.
Thanks Harry,
I will do that when I add new pictures, but for right now I am just going to leave that link on here. It is working, yes?
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Most, if not all, of these pictures are at least as old as august last year. there has been many more improvements and changes since then. I do not think I will ever be done modifying/improving the car.
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vigo
What is the rear end lock down kit?
I used the rear seat belt holes. They already are reinforced anchor points. I do plan on running another set just in case of failure. It would suck if one came loose jacking up one side of the car when going down the track.
http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/...pscy3ymhu2.jpg
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Notice the hatch key? I removed it and all the hardware and installed the airshock fill.
http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/...psfdbzwsrm.jpg
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
What is the purpose of the rear suspension "lock-down"? Maybe I missed something in the build...
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Reaper1
What is the purpose of the rear suspension "lock-down"? Maybe I missed something in the build...
First off, Big Kudos go to Gary Donovan for 90% of my build. He is a great friend and mentor.
Traction and stabilization. Traction for fwd cars, the more weight on the front tires the better. With that being said you also do not want the rear end sky high for stability reasons. Also when launching and shifting you will lose some power, traction, and some time when the rear end squats. I can also control how much weight i want on each tire depending on how the car hooks up at different tracks and lanes. If you have ever raced, you know how frustrating this can be. And yes I have a portable scale Proform 67650.
Gary Donovan has a great write up on his website.
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/traction.html
If you look at this video you will see exactly what I mean, this run was with airshocks only, notice the squat and bounce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh5Gw7K0ufo
This run is when I installed the lock down. A lot less movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6biRH8iRr4
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
It would be nice if air shocks were actually good at being shocks instead of acting like 80% spring and 20% shocks. The air shocks on the back of my SRT caravan suck pretty hard. Oh well.
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
I do plan on running coil overs (working on what spring weight I need). They will definitely be easier to manage, but these old school tricks still work great.
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vigo
It would be nice if air shocks were actually good at being shocks instead of acting like 80% spring and 20% shocks. The air shocks on the back of my SRT caravan suck pretty hard. Oh well.
I agree without putting weight or simulated weight(lock down) on them, bounce bounce bounce
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
turboshelbys
First off, Big Kudos go to Gary Donovan for 90% of my build. He is a great friend and mentor.
Traction and stabilization. Traction for fwd cars, the more weight on the front tires the better. With that being said you also do not want the rear end sky high for stability reasons. Also when launching and shifting you will lose some power, traction, and some time when the rear end squats. I can also control how much weight i want on each tire depending on how the car hooks up at different tracks and lanes. If you have ever raced, you know how frustrating this can be. And yes I have a portable scale Proform 67650.
Gary Donovan has a great write up on his website.
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/traction.html
If you look at this video you will see exactly what I mean, this run was with airshocks only, notice the squat and bounce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh5Gw7K0ufo
This run is when I installed the lock down. A lot less movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6biRH8iRr4
Ah...so you are using them as limiting straps because you are using air shocks that when filled extend the suspension to the point that it almost (and can) overextends.
I know a few of the "old school" tricks and have used and still use a few. You are right, there is very little wrong with them and they do still work. However, times and knowledge have come a long way and there are methods and parts that do as good, if not a better job. This has a few things going for it: it's simple, it's cheap, it's fairly light, it can work, and you seem to already have an understanding of what it does and how it does it.
I just didn't know the reasoning behind it because I haven't seen people do this in a while.
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
turboshelbys
First off, Big Kudos go to Gary Donovan for 90% of my build. He is a great friend and mentor.
Traction and stabilization. Traction for fwd cars, the more weight on the front tires the better. With that being said you also do not want the rear end sky high for stability reasons. Also when launching and shifting you will lose some power, traction, and some time when the rear end squats. I can also control how much weight i want on each tire depending on how the car hooks up at different tracks and lanes. If you have ever raced, you know how frustrating this can be. And yes I have a portable scale Proform 67650.
Gary Donovan has a great write up on his website.
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/traction.html
If you look at this video you will see exactly what I mean, this run was with airshocks only, notice the squat and bounce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh5Gw7K0ufo
This run is when I installed the lock down. A lot less movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6biRH8iRr4
Actually, the stiffer the rear, the sooner the weight will be transferred to the rear (been there, done that). As long as there is movement (squat), no weight is actually shifted to the rear until the squat stops. Lower ride height and longer wheel base transfers less weight to the rear as well. I'm giving away some of my secrets that allowed me to cut 1.9 60's on 300 tread wear tires. I plan on 1.8's or better with the same type of tire whenever I get it going again!
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Reaper1
Ah...so you are using them as limiting straps because you are using air shocks that when filled extend the suspension to the point that it almost (and can) overextends.
Kinda.
I pulled the car down with 15psi in the shocks, tighten my links then add air to create a stiffer rear end. the air shock bladders are taking the brunt of the compression. The shocks themselves barely extend.
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Re: 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z T3 DOHC Tuned at FwdPerformance
Quote:
Originally Posted by
glhs875
Actually, the stiffer the rear, the sooner the weight will be transferred to the rear (been there, done that). As long as there is movement (squat), no weight is actually shifted to the rear until the squat stops. Lower ride height and longer wheel base transfers less weight to the rear as well. I'm giving away some of my secrets that allowed me to cut 1.9 60's on 300 tread wear tires. I plan on 1.8's or better with the same type of tire whenever I get it going again!
Interesting, So you believe there is more loss with a stiffer rear end in a FWD? I would think if a car squats 4-5inchs vs 1-2 inches, the 1-2 inches(less transfer) would run quicker, no? Aerodynamics would come into play as well correct? if the rear end dips down, front end comes up, more air under the car, more air forcing the rear end down(longer travel) creating more resistance? I would think and believe a stiffer suspension would provide better times.