Launch technique /traction tricks
Ok.To give you a little background i used to own a couple turbo dodges back in the day.I had an 86 GLHT,86 Shelby Charger and a 87 Shelby charger.The Omni i never took to the track.But the bug bit me and i ended up at the track with the 86 and 87(i live 10 minutes from Cecil so its hard not to end up there lol).The 86 didn't have much done (and this is 20+ years ago so pardon my memory)buuuut she ran 15.1 at about 93/94 mph.Very fun car.So moving on to the 87 .It had a GLHS swap, stock turbo running 14psi and im not really sure what else.This car was owned/toyed with by Mike DeMoss and was sold to one of his friends before i bought it off of his friend Jim W.This car was a blast.It ran consistent 14.1's at 104.5 .This car was a beast from a roll.For the life of me i could never get this thing to hook.RPM"s up slip, the clutch ...baby it thru 3rd and hook and go. miserable 2.6 60 ft. times on street tires.But from 3rd gear this thing unleashed the beast.I still had to roll on the throttle in 3rd or it would blow off the tires.Well now that i am starting another build with tons of knowledge from here im sure i will surpass the performance of 20 years ago.But the problem of traction still rears its ugly head 20 years later.What i am hoping for is some real world tips and tricks from you guys on these traction issues.I know we are kind of doomed with the FWD thing but i know that a 2.6 60 ft time is well below par and better can be had.Sorry for the long winded post.I was reliving my youth..:) I will be running street tires only,no slicks.
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
I've ran many L-bodies at the strip. With proper technique and soft DOT tires, you can easily get 60' times down to 2.0-2.1 without any other mods. IMO, the car will never be very consistent though without slicks. Bolt on slicks and the vehicle will easily cut 1.80 60' times and become pretty consistent. Not sure why you're so opposed to slicks? It kills the dreaded wheel hop, vehicle has traction, and helps torque steer tremendously. The tires will last for years if you just go out a half dozen times or less a year to the strip. IMO. best bang for the buck.
Here is an example. A friend of mine with a GLHS Omni went out drag racing for the first time with his vehicle. He started out on street tires and ran a couple high 15 low 16 second passes with 2.6 or worse 60' times. Bolted on my slicks I sent with him and with instruction on how to launch vehicle, his 6th run EVER was 13.08 @ 106 MPH! This was even with his 60' times being not spectacular. The vehicle with a proper 1.8 60' would have been around 12.80's.
Make your vehicle fast enough, and the torque steer will about scare you to death on the street. A very precise wheel alignment is a must with a fast FWD car. Strongly consider a OBX or Quaife LSD for your tranny. It makes a world of difference esp. driving on the street. You will eventually need to address the suspension and getting it to stop squatting so bad when you do get it to hook. Most avid drag racers stiffen up the rear springs/shocks a bunch. After doing that the 60' times will drop below 1.8.
Todd
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
Quote:
Originally Posted by
flapjack
Ok.To give you a little background i used to own a couple turbo dodges back in the day.I had an 86 GLHT,86 Shelby Charger and a 87 Shelby charger.The Omni i never took to the track.But the bug bit me and i ended up at the track with the 86 and 87(i live 10 minutes from Cecil so its hard not to end up there lol).The 86 didn't have much done (and this is 20+ years ago so pardon my memory)buuuut she ran 15.1 at about 93/94 mph.Very fun car.So moving on to the 87 .It had a GLHS swap, stock turbo running 14psi and im not really sure what else.This car was owned/toyed with by Mike DeMoss and was sold to one of his friends before i bought it off of his friend Jim W.This car was a blast.It ran consistent 14.1's at 104.5 .This car was a beast from a roll.For the life of me i could never get this thing to hook.RPM"s up slip, the clutch ...baby it thru 3rd and hook and go. miserable 2.6 60 ft. times on street tires.But from 3rd gear this thing unleashed the beast.I still had to roll on the throttle in 3rd or it would blow off the tires.Well now that i am starting another build with tons of knowledge from here im sure i will surpass the performance of 20 years ago.But the problem of traction still rears its ugly head 20 years later.What i am hoping for is some real world tips and tricks from you guys on these traction issues.I know we are kind of doomed with the FWD thing but i know that a 2.6 60 ft time is well below par and better can be had.Sorry for the long winded post.I was reliving my youth..:) I will be running street tires only,no slicks.
Understanding that these cars acquire their own positive toe during launch and the weight transfer has the camber well into the positive range, set the toe and camber to zero.
This will minimize tire wear under normal driving conditions and vastly improve the launchability when your at the strip.
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
Ok sounds good.I'm not really opposed to slicks.It's just an added cost to an already tight budget.And back in the day it wasn't even a thought in my head.And the fact that i had the glass gear 525 im sure the street tires probably saved me a transmission.Yeah a OBX is in the distant future.I have a 555 and a 520 sitting in the garage for that purpose.Believe it or not i never had an issue with it wheel hopping.Keep 'em coming!
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
A pair of used slicks, can help with the budget burden. The pair I picked up was $200 mounted & balanced on some very lightweight rims. They were already 4 years old at that point and it was night & day difference at the track. For giggles I put them on and took a spin around the neighborhood before I went to the track; that was the first time the car hooked hard enough from a roll to engage the seat belt locks. The steering reacts quite differently with slicks, slow to respond and they don't like corners at any speed beyond a jogging pace.
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
Do everything you can to shift what weight the car has to have to the front (remove what weight you can as well),lower the center of gravity (the weight that is on the vehicle and lower the vehicle itself) that will help to slow weight transfer to the rear. And use a gear based boost control. I was able to cut (on regular basis) 60's in the 1.9's with my GLHS on 300 treadwear tires. It was an auto, which helped the launch as well.
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
Impressive.Guess i can do what i can within my budget and slowly work on others as they come.I read up on the traction subject on Donovans garage and that helped as well.
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
I had a real bad wheel hop that wouldn't go away, it wasn't until I pulled the engine that I noticed the trans mount on the drivers side was cracked.
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
One thing about the torque biasing diffs on the street: the car WILL go whatever direction the wheels are pointed under power. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, however if you aren't used to it or expecting it you can end up in a lot of trouble in a hurry. Many SRT-4's met their early demise because of this. It's a driver thing, not an equipment thing. The nice part about them is that it does make suspension set-up for launching a bit more forgiving and cornering becomes a LOT more fun! No more inside tire fire!!
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
The stuff I read about using air shocks (or even a single one) in the rear I found really interesting. I would never have thought of that. Or fitting a spacer to preload the rear sway bar. Doesn't get cheaper than a wood block.
I think Gus' site or DG's is where I read that stuff.
And these are not too badly priced, pays for iteself if it can prevent breakage from hop/shake.
http://www.polybushings.com/pages/moparbobble.html
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
You have some options for tracton control:
2 or 3 stage boost control (manual, switches, maybe even a MPH switch!)
Fancy tuning with a custom calibration. Limit your peak torque by pulling some timing. Not sure if you can make this MPH based with what Rob has figured out so far.
Megasquirt (actual traction control).
----
Corby (umbass) has a friend Eric whose a525 Charger ran 12.5's at 115mph on slicks. Never broke. That can ran for years.
I would just run slicks, even with an open diff. Just because you have slicks doesn't mean you have to run all out, so you could do lazy 1st gear launches to protect your drivetrain BUT be able to hook 2nd and 3rd gear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVz5K63iYDs
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
LOL..Well quite the inspirational video.Personally i think when money permits i would definitely like to the slicks route.Never have ran them.Maybe its time.
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
I actually believe slicks are easier on the car than streets. Slicks have a soft sidewall, which absorbs some of the initial "hit" during the launch. Slicks are also significantly less prone to wheel hop than stiff walled street tires.
Air pressure and tire temp can control how hard they bite, and you control how aggressive you drive it. Buy them...you'll never go back.
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
Aww man..now you got me thinking. Here we go again. .guess ill have to start saving for slicks now.
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
You can take a gradual corner on slicks fairly fast, freeway interchanges etc. You just need to run low 20 psi in the tires to stiffen them up.
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
They work good on the Fox bodies I've been around. Only a few bucks more than dedicated slicks.
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ondonti
You can take a gradual corner on slicks fairly fast, freeway interchanges etc. You just need to run low 20 psi in the tires to stiffen them up.
I remember a few years back Cliff Sebring used his 20x8x14 M/T drag slicks on the gymkhana course at one of our SDAC events and was the quickest or close to it time wise in the Silver Bullet...just pumped them way up...side walls still took a beating.
Re: Launch technique /traction tricks