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My 89 TII Daytona won't start. The pump won't prime when I flip the key forward, but it will crank. It sounds like it has compression. When I jump the coil the FP fires right up. I've tried a second computer and there was no change. It's not throwing a code 11 after resetting the computer, so I'm assuming that the HEP is good.
I have a new ignition switch on the way. I tried to use the wrong style switch, but it didn't work very well that way.
Any other ideas?
Hall Effect?
I haven't tried it, but there are two things which make me think it's not the HEP.
1. The car should at least prime the pump by flipping the key forward. This doesn't happen when the car won't start.
2. I don't get a code 11 after resetting the computer. I know it's not a dead sure thing that the HEP is good without a code 11, but it's better than fair in regard to the accuracy.
I'm thinking that the Z1 circuit isn't energizing for some reason. I can throw another power board and smec board at it and I have another starter switch on the way. Other than that this would have to be purely electrical right?
Engine ground
Thanks. I'll look that over. I did check the ground behind the battery yesterday, but I didn't check the one at the head.Quote:
Originally Posted by bfarroo
Fusible link?
I gave them a brief tug yesterday, but I do need to look at them further.Quote:
Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance
I went to minimopar for the fusible link picture and found a section directly pertaining to my current problem. Pun intended.
Thanks Russ. I'll try this on Sunday probably.
http://www.minimopar.net/images/electrical-maindist.gif
Quote:
No Engine Feed
Use this section if the engine cranks when the ignition key is turned to the "start" position, but there is no spark, fuel, etc. Also, the accessories and instrument panel work. This problem can have several causes and may take some time to track down.
Basically, most of the engine's components that require 12V get it through the J2 or Z1 feeds. The Z1 feed is basically the J2 feed switched on and off by the ASD Relay. On 1987 and earlier models, the ASD relay was located inside the power module. For later models, it was a black plastic relay located externally, near the other relays. The ASD Relay is controlled by the computer and is turned on when the computer detects a signal from the ignition reference sensor.
The J2 feed supplies power to all of the solenoids, some relays, the alternator field, oxygen sensor, diagnostic connector, etc. It almost always is a dark blue 14 gauge wire. If you do not see a dark blue wire, look for a common wire color on all of the solenoids. This should be your J2.
Turn the ignition key to the "on" position.
With the negative probe of your meter grounded to the chassis or negative battery terminal, use the positive probe to check for the J2 voltage at a solenoid. Look for the common wire color (usually dark blue). Now check for it at all solenoids, any relay that has that wire, the alternator field terminal (usually the top one, see the battery connections diagram in the No Power At All section), and at the power module, SMEC, or SBEC (see the Understanding The Chrysler ECU page if you don't know what these are).
If you find the voltage at every place where you saw that wire, then your J2 feed is probably good. Make sure you checked for it at the power module or ASD relay and SMEC/SBEC.
If you couldn't measure it anywhere, then your J2 feed from the ignition switch is bad. Check the wiring and replace the switch if necessary.
If you only measured it in some spots but not others (particularly at the power module, SMEC or SBEC), then you have a bad splice. The J2 splice is actually a series of two or more splices. Usually, two of them are in the harnesses near the battery and fumes from the battery causes them to corrode and break. Consult your wiring diagrams for exact splice locations and repair any bad ones.
Now you need to check the Z1 feed. The Z1 feed supplies power to the ignition coil, fuel pump and fuel injectors. If you have a 1987 or earlier vehicle, the Z1 feed comes right out of the power module (the ASD relay is inside). On later models, the Z1 feed comes from the ASD Relay.
Turn the ignition key to the "on" position.
With the negative probe of your meter grounded to the chassis or negative battery terminal, connect the positive probe to Z1 supply to the ignition coil (may be dark green and may be with a black stripe...consult your wiring diagrams).
Have someone crank the engine while you watch the meter. As the engine is cranked, 12V should appear on the coil.
Repeat the test for the fuel injectors and the fuel pump. Stick the positive probe into the fuel injector connector by the rail to measure there. For the fuel pump, measure the voltage at the fuse panel by pulling the fuse and testing on each of the two contacts.
If you find the voltage at every place where you saw that wire, then your Z1 feed is probably good.
If you only measured it in some spots but not others, then you probably have a bad splice. Consult your wiring diagrams for exact Z1 splice location on your vehicle.
If you couldn't measure it anywhere, then your Z1 feed from the ASD relay is the problem.
Connect the positive probe from your meter to the positive battery terminal and use the negative probe to test the ASD control line. If you have a 1987 or earlier vehicle, this wire leads to the power module (pin 5 of the 12-way connector, dark blue with a yellow stripe). Try to push the probe through the back of the connector into the contact. If you have a later model, you can disconnect the ASD relay and connect the probe there.
Have someone crank the engine. While the engine is cranked, 12V should appear at the relay control line.
If a voltage appeared, then your relay is probably bad, but you may want to check the connections. Verify that the power module or relay is getting the J2 feed and that the Z1 output makes a good connection. If you have a power module, the entire module has to be replaced. If you are good with electronics, the unit can be disassembled and the relay replaced (with some difficulty). Otherwise, just replace the relay.
If no voltage appeared, then it is likely that the computer is not seeing a signal from the ignition reference sensor. You may want to consider replacing it. Be sure that you have good connections at the sensor. The contacts in those two round connectors are prone to getting loose. Be sure that the cables to the sensor are properly secured so that they don't swing around and damage the wires inside.
That's the route I was going to suggest, take a look at the ASD relay. No power to the coil and the fuel pump, everything goes through that relay.
Power at the relay? Yup- then check operation. No- look for broken wires, fusible links etc between it and the battery.
Operation good? yup- check wiring after the relay.
Did you pull the cover off the relay or swap it? That sucks man. Maybe the ignition module under the column?
I've messed with the ignition switch under the column. Now I need to check under the hood for the problem. I'm pretty sure I've got power to the J2 wire going out to the engine bay. I'll have to check it in there next. I believe the ASD relay is still in the SMEC for 89 so that'll be a little bit more trouble to shoot. However, I've already swapped to a different SMEC so I'm pretty sure that's not the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by minigts
Call a priest and have plenty of holy water on hand.:amen:
Battery terminals.
I had the same problem in my Daytona. I even replaced the ignition switch with no change. Finally decided to just go ahead and clean the battery terminals and it fired right up.
It seems odd that it can crank over, but not turn on the ASD, I know. But, that's what it was in my case.
Thanks Rob. I'll give those a look before I start tearing into anything else. If that fails, then the Holy Water comes out.
corroded fuel pump ground.(gray wire,crappy rubber plug, or the pump hanger ground) Fix it, install a redundant ground to the body. I only found mine while inspecting the FIRE DAMAGE !!:faint:
I thought about that, but even when the key absolutely won't work it'll fire right up when you jump the coil. I'll still have a look at that though. I don't like the sound of your results.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGBRUDDA
Tonight I replaced the ignition switch and it fired right up. No signs of the previous trouble. I inspected the battery terminals and they looked good. I tidied things up in the engine bay a bit and we'll give this a go. I still have more work to do before the winter comes. It's a shame that this thing will be a winter car, but I'll put fluid film under it so that it will stay nice for as long as possible.
Well, the cat came back the very next day. Actually I've been driving it pretty regularly since my last post. About a tank through it really. Same problem popped up tonight at the gas station. This was of course after the starter went out in my black neon when I took it to the gas station right before. I had to push that one home. Good times.