Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
Hi Gang! As I'm cleaning and painting my way around my '85 600 Turbo's engine compartment, I realized that Dodge really used a lot of fabric based friction tape to protect the wiring and harnesses and as a transition to the split wire loom tubing. This stuff is showing it's age and is falling apart. I have a roll and was just going to replace it as needed but was thinking that a good quality 3M electrical tape might be a better choice with a nicer appearance. What are your thoughts?
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
Use the friction tape you have. That should suffice.
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
I have some friction tape used on Audis that is really nice. I don't like to use electrical tape, as it gets really gooey and nasty in the engine bay.
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
Cordes, you are talking about this Tesa stuff, correct? https://www.amazon.com/Tesa-Wire-Loo...N0W7EZT9DPPMF9
The original friction tape has held up poorly and looks like little rags in some places. They also used electrical tape in spots and it's held up better but got brittle and the adhesive dried out. I have an '09 Challenger R/T (one of the reasons the 600 project got sidetracked for so long). I checked under the hood of it and they used electrical tape. If I go that route I won't use cheap stuff. Scotch Super 33+ seems to be the way to go.
I plan to use more split wire loom on some wires that had previously been taped. Then just tape at the ends of the split plastic looms. There is a big, fat knot of taped wires right behind the right shock tower and above the A/C expansion valve. That will be a bit of a project to re-wrap.
The wires themselves seem to be in pretty good shape. The only problems (so far) are two with cracked insulation and the copper showing through in spots. They are to the left high-beam lamp. Those wires are up against the coolant overflow tank and I guess the heat got to them. I'll splice in fresh wires.
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
The non-cloth type is out there; I usually find it listed for GM vehicles. Unfortunately, it's been so long I can't remember where to find it, but Google should help. It's not adhesive backed, so it doesn't become a gooey mess like electrical tape. Downside is, since it's not adhesive backed, you'll have to finish the end with either friction tape or large diameter shrink tube to keep it from unraveling.
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dodgeboy77
Cordes, you are talking about this Tesa stuff, correct?
https://www.amazon.com/Tesa-Highest-...7K2KCMX6N3PEQ8
The original friction tape has held up poorly. I have an '09 Challenger R/T (one of the reasons the 600 project got sidetracked for so long). I checked under the hood of it and they used electrical tape. If I go that route I won't use cheap stuff. Scotch Super 33+ seems to be the way to go.
That looks like it. The next time I'm in the garage, I can try to get a part number off of it.
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
CLOTH HOCKEY TAPE..
it's adhesive backed
it's waterproof
it's cheap as ...
and it's just down the street in someone's sporting goods isle..
if you wanna get funky it can be had in colours too
did my gunmetal blue tz's wiring with same blue colour tape ... for the heck of it ..
and it stops being tacky to the touch after a while..
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
Below is a picture of why I decided to avoid friction tape. This shows the wiring harness in front of the battery where the coolant overflow tank goes. The friction tape has fallen apart to about nothing. As I handled the wire, shreds of the tape were falling off. Granted, the car is 35 years old but the last ten it's been in a garage.
At this point my plan is to encase smaller wire groups, like in the picture, with split plastic wire loom wherever I can. I have a bunch of different sizes. Then I'll tape the edges with3M/Scotch Super 33+ electrical tape. For bigger wire groups, I ordered a roll of that Tesa fabric tape as it has good ratings (And Cordes' approval!).
In the meantime, I spliced about a foot of 14 gauge wire into the bad sections that led to my left high beam. I had clipped out the two wires with cracked insulation and thought it was 14 gauge, but it turns out to be 16 gauge. Whoops! Oh well, better a splice that's too big than one that's too small. I soldered it in place, put heat shrink over the splices and the pair of wires are going into a split wire loom so they're better protected from heat.
https://i.imgur.com/rxXrXx6.jpg
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dodgeboy77
Below is a picture of why I decided to avoid friction tape. This shows the wiring harness in front of the battery where the coolant overflow tank goes. The friction tape has fallen apart to about nothing. As I handled the wire, shreds of the tape were falling off. Granted, the car is 35 years old but the last ten it's been in a garage.
At this point my plan is to encase smaller wire groups, like in the picture, with split plastic wire loom wherever I can. I have a bunch of different sizes. Then I'll tape the edges with3M/Scotch Super 33+ electrical tape. For bigger wire groups, I ordered a roll of that Tesa fabric tape as it has good ratings (And Cordes' approval!).
In the meantime, I spliced about a foot of 14 gauge wire into the bad sections that led to my left high beam. I had clipped out the two wires with cracked insulation and thought it was 14 gauge, but it turns out to be 16 gauge. Whoops! Oh well, better a splice that's too big than one that's too small. I soldered it in place, put heat shrink over the splices and the pair of wires are going into a split wire loom so they're better protected from heat.
https://i.imgur.com/rxXrXx6.jpg
If you have headlight wiring problems, please strongly consider relaying them. Too many of these cars have been lost to headlight switch disasters.
https://youtu.be/4d0ikK5IQa0
Also, if you're really getting into wiring, you may find the following link interesting. I've picked up way too many of the tools listed on here over the years and I'm now trying not to do everything with milspec wiring and heat shrink tube.
https://rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
I've used this when trying to make wires look pretty. Very simple and looks nice.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wire-Cord-B...05a0db76809a60
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
Fenderbass: My '09 Challenger uses that woven stuff around hoses and wires. You're right that it does look good. A disadvantage is that unlike the split plastic looms, you have to fish the wires through the stuff. With hoses that's generally easier.
Cordes: That link to mil-spec and race wiring was amazing. I think there's a couple of engineering courses in there. Makes me feel like what I'm doing is high school electric shop level (I was a shop teacher for 36 years).
I haven't had any headlight problems with this car but I think I just headed one off by finding the cracked insulation on those wires.
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dodgeboy77
Fenderbass: My '09 Challenger uses that woven stuff around hoses and wires. You're right that it does look good. A disadvantage is that unlike the split plastic looms, you have to fish the wires through the stuff. With hoses that's generally easier.
Cordes: That link to mil-spec and race wiring was amazing. I think there's a couple of engineering courses in there. Makes me feel like what I'm doing is high school electric shop level (I was a shop teacher for 36 years).
I haven't had any headlight problems with this car but I think I just headed one off by finding the cracked insulation on those wires.
At least try a voltage drop test to see what you're losing through the system. You might be surprised. The difference in light output with relayed lights is nuts. GLHNSLH2 on here would routinely post about it and when I finally gave it a try there was no going back.
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
Cordes said "At least try a voltage drop test to see what you're losing through the system. You might be surprised. The difference in light output with relayed lights is nuts. GLHNSLH2 on here would routinely post about it and when I finally gave it a try there was no going back. "
That makes sense and it's easy enough to do. I've relayed driving lights in the past.
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dodgeboy77
Cordes said "At least try a voltage drop test to see what you're losing through the system. You might be surprised. The difference in light output with relayed lights is nuts. GLHNSLH2 on here would routinely post about it and when I finally gave it a try there was no going back. "
That makes sense and it's easy enough to do. I've relayed driving lights in the past.
There are many deer in my area still alive, and a couple of my cars still on the road due to the 400+ watts allowing me to see down the country roads at night in the winter.
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
I use the 3M super 88 tape found at home depot. High temp, doesn't leave residue, thick, strong adhesive.
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
Don't use vinyl adhesive electrical tape in the engine bay. It WILL get gooey.
Don't use hockey tape in the engine bay. I learned this the hard way. It looks good for a while, but it tends to break down fairly quickly because it's not designed for underhood environment. It's OK to use in the cabin of the car (like dash harnesses and such).
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Reaper1
Don't use hockey tape in the engine bay. I learned this the hard way. It looks good for a while, but it tends to break down fairly quickly because it's not designed for underhood environment. It's OK to use in the cabin of the car (like dash harnesses and such).
Advice 8 months too late for me. We will see how it goes
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dodgeboy77
Fenderbass: My '09 Challenger uses that woven stuff around hoses and wires. You're right that it does look good. A disadvantage is that unlike the split plastic looms, you have to fish the wires through the stuff. With hoses that's generally easier.
When I did the aftermarket gauge cluster in my Charger (complete stand alone harness) I bought from Summit that actually is split, yet it keeps a tight wrap on the wires without tape or zip ties. I believe it was Painless brand.
Re: Friction Tape vs. Electrical Tape
Reaper 1 said: "Don't use vinyl adhesive electrical tape in the engine bay. It WILL get gooey. "
I wonder how much this depends on the brand and quality of the tape and how close it is to heat? I've dealt with gooey tape before but it was usually cheap stuff. The 3M/Scotch Super 33+ and the thicker Super 88 seem to be good quality. (I just bought three rolls of Super 33+ for $10 and already have a roll of Super 88 so I'll be getting experience)