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Unofficial BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
All,
I have floated the idea out there a few times about selling BC coilovers.
These are a far superior design to the coilovers that we currently have available. The big advantage is that when they are lowered the shock body actually goes into the mount and doesn't lose ANY travel. Aditionally they can be valved to take pretty much any spring we want. 12k (675lb/in) springs are no problem.
My unofficial Frankenstein kit progress has been slow and after talking to the owner he said he wanted to consider an official kit but I need to be able to show that we want enough kits to do it!
There would initially be two different kits:
Lbody
and
GJKHPA body.
The kits would be $1000 shipped and would include:
Front Struts
Rear Shocks
Front and Rear Springs
Spring Hats/Adjusters
Bottom Spring mounts (non lbody)
Bumpstops
Dust Boots
Front Camber Plates! (yes they are included in the $1k price but they don't currently offer caster adjustment)
It would be basically everything you would need to bolt them to the car. The only non true bolt on component would be that lbodys would have to use the GJKHPA spindles so we don't have to make custom strut mounts.
The shocks would be BR type: http://www.bcracing-na.com/products.php?view=BR_Type
Let me know if you are interested I need to get 5-10 people for each body style. So far I think off the record about 4-5 people have been waiting for me to get this done some for each body style.
It would take a month or so to get it done and I would also need a deposit of $100 or so to make sure you are serious.
Lets make a sign up list to see if we can get it done.
Lbody:
1) Badger (Rampage, fronts and rear when avail).
2) DOHCRT
3) 4cefedomni (Rampage, fronts only for now).
4) omni_840
5) black86glhs
6) rx2mazda
7) 30 PSI SHADOW (Rampage, fronts only)
8) Regular grocery items are what you may possible spot on the Food Lion Ad.
9)
10)
Non Lbody:
1) Badger
2) turboz523
3) DOHCRT
4) Austrian Dodge (fronts)
5) csxtra
6) 88 C/S
7) MoparBCN
8)
9)
10)
I will post some pictures of my prototype kit shortly.
-Rich
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
I would be very interested. Just not at this moment. Neither of my omnis are running:lol:
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thedon809
I would be very interested. Just not at this moment. Neither of my omnis are running:lol:
Irrelevant! My car doesn't run either but IMO it sure has some cool parts on it... ;)
Get them running soon because I need to get as many people as I can if we are going to make this an official product.
I our cars are similar enough to some of their other stuff (SRT4/Neon/VW) that they can do it without too much development. If it weren't for that I really don't think they would even do it.
Either way we still need to try and show them that they can make a small amount of easy money or they probably won't do it.
-Rich
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
I would be interested too if I wasnt a poor college student.
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
These are coming a little to late for me. I'm just subbing this year, so it's not in the cards. I will be heartbroken if they aren't offered when I can afford them though.
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
count me in for a g body setup
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Any chance it will take longer than that? I want one but coming up with a thousand extra dollars right now is gonna be tough.
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Damn tempting, but what I'm going to do with my extra Konis then ;)
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
I've been through all this with BC and had the RM series all spec'd out with them for full G body weights for a street/road race setup for my RT, but I am yet to take the plunge, there are several other companies I'm also interested in.
I'm running the RM series on a 3kgt with no problems as yet, even if it has probably only done a 1000 miles on them so far, but they still have limited adjustability and fixed bump rates at either end of the scale.
I've had innumerable amounts of calculations done on rates/valving/volume/viscosity etc etc to make the perfect suspension for my 87z for circuit racing, but it is now looking as though the k-frame, wishbones and knuckles will go so no need to build specific shock bodies...
The BC shocks, all be it budget solutions, have some great features you wouldn't normally get without spending a lot more money and are well manufactured with good product support IMHO.
Mr Bryant, Have you considered the RM series? They are only marginally more expensive, save on unsprung weight and are quite possibly stiffer by virtue of design.
This is my original thread on BM- Custom Coilovers
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
mmm BC coilovers... I need them for my Magnum (same price even...) before the T-Ms though.
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4cefedomni
Any chance it will take longer than that? I want one but coming up with a thousand extra dollars right now is gonna be tough.
This is a car project everything always takes longer than the initial estimate....
-Rich
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Garffus
I've been through all this with BC and had the RM series all spec'd out with them for full G body weights for a street/road race setup for my RT, but I am yet to take the plunge, there are several other companies I'm also interested in.
I'm running the RM series on a 3kgt with no problems as yet, even if it has probably only done a 1000 miles on them so far, but they still have limited adjustability and fixed bump rates at either end of the scale.
I've had innumerable amounts of calculations done on rates/valving/volume/viscosity etc etc to make the perfect suspension for my 87z for circuit racing, but it is now looking as though the k-frame, wishbones and knuckles will go so no need to build specific shock bodies...
The BC shocks, all be it budget solutions, have some great features you wouldn't normally get without spending a lot more money and are well manufactured with good product support IMHO.
Mr Bryant, Have you considered the RM series? They are only marginally more expensive, save on unsprung weight and are quite possibly stiffer by virtue of design.
This is my original thread on BM-
Custom Coilovers
I have a full setup on my 87 GLHS right now but I still haven't finished the engine swap. Oh and there is that part about my frame getting pulled out to copy for everyone. :)
The RAM and ER series would be no problem for the front struts. We should be able to do RAM series rears but the ERs might be harder. I wouldn't recommend the RAM series because they don't tend to last as long as the BR series does.
The challenge is more about the mounting than the valving. I am targeting more of the economy crowd to get this going but after we get the initial batch made we could expand to the higher end.
-Rich
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Wait...the plates are INCLUDED?! AAGGGGHH!!!!!! You're killin' me Rich.....killin' me.
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
minigts
Wait...the plates are INCLUDED?! AAGGGGHH!!!!!! You're killin' me Rich.....killin' me.
This assumes that they actually make them... Originally I had planned on making an adapter bushing to use my plates with their struts. I even have the bushings in stock for it and I spent over $200 to make the bushings.
Then I got their plates for an SRT4 and they didn't quite work so I made some adapter plates for their adjusters and planned on selling those... Now they say they want to provide the adapter plates. IF they make them then the plates will be based on my design so they are compatible with the footprint of my plates.
I know what you are saying though. It wasn't my intention to sell people plates and then months later come up with something that could be considered better.
The plates I designed are still the best bet for running Koni struts or other existing coilover products which is what they were intended for in the first place... I still have inventory for my camber plates so I am killing myself too...
Their pricing structure is such that no matter what they include in the kit it is the same price so they are basically a free addon. The only extras I ever see them do are for rear camber plates on strut cars (which don't apply to us).
If it would make you feel better I can work on BCs without the plates for the same $1000 but others might not like it... :)
One thing to consider though is that the BC camber plates don't come with caster adjustment... I will see if I can get them to add it but right now they are camber only plates.
-Rich
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rbryant
This assumes that they actually make them... Originally I had planned on making an adapter bushing to use my plates with their struts. I even have the bushings in stock for it and I spent over $200 to make the bushings.
Then I got their plates for an SRT4 and they didn't quite work so I made some adapter plates for their adjusters and planned on selling those... Now they say they want to provide the adapter plates. IF they make them then the plates will be based on my design so they are compatible with the footprint of my plates.
I know what you are saying though. It wasn't my intention to sell people plates and then months later come up with something that could be considered better.
The plates I designed are still the best bet for running Koni struts or other existing coilover products which is what they were intended for in the first place... I still have inventory for my camber plates so I am killing myself too...
Their pricing structure is such that no matter what they include in the kit it is the same price so they are basically a free addon. The only extras I ever see them do are for rear camber plates on strut cars (which don't apply to us).
If it would make you feel better I can work on BCs without the plates for the same $1000 but others might not like it... :)
One thing to consider though is that the BC camber plates don't come with caster adjustment... I will see if I can get them to add it but right now they are camber only plates.
-Rich
Oh I was just giving you a hard time. :) Believe me, I'm always impressed with your work. I don't have an immediate need for the struts, but I'll think about getting the setup for the future. As always, :thumb: :D
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
minigts
Oh I was just giving you a hard time. :) Believe me, I'm always impressed with your work. I don't have an immediate need for the struts, but I'll think about getting the setup for the future. As always, :thumb: :D
Thanks,
I can totally understand that it sucks to see a new thing come out right after you just bought the original camber plates.
These are a different application because they require the BCs but still I feel for you and can only say that it wasn't my intention to suddenly spring a new thing when I am still selling the old one.
-Rich
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rbryant
Thanks,
I can totally understand that it sucks to see a new thing come out right after you just bought the original camber plates.
These are a different application because they require the BCs but still I feel for you and can only say that it wasn't my intention to suddenly spring a new thing when I am still selling the old one.
-Rich
Absolutely not man. I know you're always thinking and coming up with new ideas. If I can afford to do it I will. :)
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
This is a pretty sweet set-up. I'd be all over it if I didn't have a brand new pair of koni's sitting in my basement ;)
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
What are the odds of me getting a set of fronts only? The car they would be going on would be a rampage which uses a leaf spring in the rear
and shocks not a coil over like the rest of the omnis.
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4cefedomni
What are the odds of me getting a set of fronts only? The car they would be going on would be a rampage which uses a leaf spring in the rear
and shocks not a coil over like the rest of the omnis.
I can do that half kits aren't a problem but i need enough people to order the rears so that we can reasonably get them done.
I really need more people for the non lbody rears because those take more custom parts.
We are looking at some rampage solutions but most of them involve radically changing the rear end and modifying the bed. There just isn't much room for coil springs on a Rampage.
-Rich
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rbryant
I can do that half kits aren't a problem but i need enough people to order the rears so that we can reasonably get them done.
I really need more people for the non lbody rears because those take more custom parts.
We are looking at some rampage solutions but most of them involve radically changing the rear end and modifying the bed. There just isn't much room for coil springs on a Rampage.
-Rich
Are you saying you're developing a setup for rampages? Maybe I should hold out and wait for that instead?
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
so Rich you have adapters made up to use the bc stuff with your camber plates? If so I might be more interested in that since I'm going for as much positive caster as I can get and your plates are caster adjustable...that and I already opened up the holes and modified them some more to get an additional 1/2 degree positive :) Also, I'm wondering if my car might benefit from one of the higher levels of shock/strut that they offer, since I primarily autocross the car and the spring rates are going to be over 500lbs? What's your opinion on that?
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Sorry for my ignorance, but can we still use the stock lbody spindles if we put spacers in between the strut and spindle? Are the distance between the strut holes different?
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
If I had the means to do this, I'd be all over it! Uggh....I HATE being broke! HATE IT!!
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4cefedomni
Are you saying you're developing a setup for rampages? Maybe I should hold out and wait for that instead?
The front will be the same as the charger so I would suggest getting that half kit.
I am looking into something for the rear of the Rampage but it is not very straight forward and would probably require modifications.
-Rich
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
turboz523
so Rich you have adapters made up to use the bc stuff with your camber plates? If so I might be more interested in that since I'm going for as much positive caster as I can get and your plates are caster adjustable...that and I already opened up the holes and modified them some more to get an additional 1/2 degree positive :)
I have the adapter bushings for my plates ready to go so it is an option.
I will try to get them to add caster to the plates but I can't really guarantee that.
I can make a custom top plate that has the same footprint and caster adjustment as my originals that bolts to their center adjuster (that is what I currently have on my GLHS). The only downside to that is that I have to make the plates so they would probably be $100 extra or so If I have to make them where if they make them they just include them in the price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboz523
Also, I'm wondering if my car might benefit from one of the higher levels of shock/strut that they offer, since I primarily autocross the car and the spring rates are going to be over 500lbs? What's your opinion on that?
Well the external reservoir (ER) struts are better. I think those are $1000 for just the fronts but I would have to double check on that price.
Either strut can take the 500lb springs but the ERs have more oil in the external reservoir and they are a true double adjustable strut.
I think you could run the ER fronts with the regular BR rears without a problem. Most of the work is done in the front of the car so that is where you really need the best stuff while the rear is kind of along for the ride.
The BRs still adjust both bound and rebound through their 30 way adjustment but it is from a single adjustment point so it is not an independent adjustment.
-Rich
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DevoBuzz
Sorry for my ignorance, but can we still use the stock lbody spindles if we put spacers in between the strut and spindle? Are the distance between the strut holes different?
The lbody spindles are both narrower and they also adjust on the opposite bolt. The actual spacing is the same but the offset between the top and bottom is a little different.
I know that when people try to use Daytona spindles in lbody struts they have had issues with the camber angles not being right.
I haven't tried it but I think that if you ran lbody spindles in the neon strut with spacers your camber might be changed a bit. Considering that they come with a camber plate to adjust things it could probably be fixed in the top plate so that it would work.
I would however suggest that you upgrade your spindles to the 91+ non lbody style. Then you don't need any spacers, the spindle connection is stronger, and you have better brake options including the option of 11" front rotors. If you are serious enough to run these then you probably want the better spindle and brakes aswell.
-Rich
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Any idea what just a set of fronts for an L body would cost?
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4cefedomni
Any idea what just a set of fronts for an L body would cost?
$500 for only the fronts.
They usually just charge the same for the front and rear.
-Rich
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Depending on how soon you're looking for definite replies I may be in for a set for my csx-t. Just have to check finances when I get back from my honeymoon in november...we'll see how much she spends.:ballchain:
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rbryant
$500 for only the fronts.
They usually just charge the same for the front and rear.
-Rich
Sure twist my rubber arm why don't you:p
put me down for a set of fronts for an L body please. Hopefully these take a little while I'm still recovering from the K frame!
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4cefedomni
Sure twist my rubber arm why don't you:p
put me down for a set of fronts for an L body please. Hopefully these take a little while I'm still recovering from the K frame!
Kframe? What Kframe? j/k.
I should get the rest of the kframes back from powdercoating in a couple of days and I can ship them then.
I am marking you down for a front set. If everything goes well we will work on the Rampage rears too.
-Rich
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
This might seem like a stupid question, but are these gas charged, or can you change the oil in the cartridge?
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TopDollar69
This might seem like a stupid question, but are these gas charged, or can you change the oil in the cartridge?
They are a monotube shock so they will have a gas charge.
There is a warranty on the shocks and after the warranty is up they exchange out the shock body for $95 each plus shipping.
-Rich
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Rich,
Will the BC camber plates require cutting the strut towers?
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
csxtra
Rich,
Will the BC camber plates require cutting the strut towers?
The GJKHPA bodys wouldn't have camber adjustment unless the towers are modified. The hole in the stock tower is just too small. The lbody wouldn't require cutting.
For the GJKHPA cars I would probably make the plate with minimal adjustment that doesn't require cutting.
In thinking about it I might be able to come up with a design that will work for both people that cut and people that don't cut the towers. It will be a bit thicker than the stock design in order to recess the bolt tops but it should work well. Adjustment will be limited by the stock strut tower hole either way if it isn't enlarged. I will have to see what BC says about the design though.
If I can't get them to make the more complex design then the default would be to have a plate with no adjustment for the GJKHPA cars and we can work on an upgraded plate for those that are willing to cut the towers to get more adjustment. Even without the adjustment the rubber mount is removed which will give a more firm feel and eliminate extra sway from the suspension.
-Rich
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rbryant
$500 for only the fronts.
They usually just charge the same for the front and rear.
-Rich
does that include the camber plates?!
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Juggy
does that include the camber plates?!
If BC produces the full kit with camber plates then yes $500 would get you the front struts, springs, and camber plates.
If I have to make a custom piece to adapt them then it would be a little more but still $600 or less.
So if we get enough people signed up then the front setup would be very nice and very affordable.
-Rich
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Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
rich, at what point are you going to need a deposit. I'm ready whenever you're ready, autocross season is over, and I was able to just barely pull out a win in my class. I def. want this setup for next season so I can try to pull ahead a little further.
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2 Attachment(s)
Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
turboz523
rich, at what point are you going to need a deposit. I'm ready whenever you're ready, autocross season is over, and I was able to just barely pull out a win in my class. I def. want this setup for next season so I can try to pull ahead a little further.
It will probably be a week or two assuming they bite for 8 orders.
I think they probably will because I already did a proof of concept using parts that they already have with a custom plate for the fronts. The rears should also be possible to build with parts that they have and a few extras.
I think I can build the Kcar camber plate so that the same one can be used for people that cut and don't cut the towers. I just have to use a low profile cap bolt and recess the groove. That way it will actually be below the top of the plate. Without cutting adjustment will be limited by the hole in the tower rather than the bolts. The only problem is that it people that don't cut would have to remove the strut to make camber adjustments (which would be limited anyway so they should probably just set it to center).
They would be a 3/8" plate instead of 1/4" but with the BC's there is no strut travel loss so it doesn't matter.
I just have to see how much influence I can have over BC's plate design. They will probably want to do it their own way but even if that happens these can be made as an upgrade if theirs don't meet everything that mine can do.
The only difference from what I did before is to add the recess instead of it being a pure 2D design. This also makes them side specific so the cost would be slightly higher than just making a bunch of the same 2D plates that can be used on both sides.
Proposed GJKHPA Plate:
Attachment 26392
Proposed Lbody Plate:
Attachment 26393
-Rich