Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
I hate for old topics to be downed with comments to the effect that (ALL) has been covered or the topic shouldn't be brought up again etc. Well maybe someone may have missed something in the past or maybe someone new is reading a topic for the first time or maybe some valuable information was not
discussed in the first pace! I always try my best to keep an open mind on all things! Just saying!
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
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Originally Posted by
glhs875
I hate for old topics to be downed with comments to the effect that (ALL) has been covered or the topic shouldn't be brought up again etc. Well maybe someone may have missed something in the past or maybe someone new is reading a topic for the first time or maybe some valuable information was not
discussed in the first pace! I always try my best to keep an open mind on all things! Just saying!
You are Right, I could have been a little more cooth in the way I posted that. My Bad!
Possibly the effect of entering a conversation too late to gain a smooth entry?
To me this is the Simple stuff, and after all these years I would have thought there would be oodles of data, pointing to 1 piece up to around X HP, 2 piece to X + HP, well ported 2 piece to X ++ HP, ect ect. (+ respective powerband (RPM) changes)
So the Q seemed simple enough to me, but I'm one to resolve a problem and move on. Having "moved on" I want to think about the Next problem. (maybe that's it, maybe I'm just in the Wrong conversation?)
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Originally Posted by
GLHNSLHT2
I don't remember where I heard that. I thought it was from a reputable source. I'm sorry. So what's the area of the neck?
Cool of you to respond in such a way after I (believe it or not, not purposely) singled you out!
Remember, I Don't consider the individual in situations like this, I just attack the skewed info. My Bad again!
But Thank you for being Honest enough to state the Facts. That it was third party info that you were just passing on. This IS the greatest problem with the internet and carrying on conversations where the Truth never reveals itself. More times then not, the "Untruth" gets passed along and no one remembers how it got started. :banghead:
IMS it was Gus who said the 1 piece necks down smaller than the .........52mm TB ;)
If I'm remembering this correctly, he put the 52mm TB on the Acclaim and lost gas mileage while gaining No performance. So he looked into things a little further and found the restriction in the TB elbow of the 1 piece.
When we cut open a 1 piece and measured it all those years ago, I believe what we found was to the same effect. It was so long ago and I put it behind me so quickly that I'm not even sure How close it was to the 52mm TB? (For some reason I thought it wasn't as bad as I was expecting to find)
I have a dozen or more 1 piece intakes laying around and out of curiosity, I think I will cut one open and dble check :)
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
Something about throttle bodies vs. neck diameter that I am curious about is with a bladed TB at WOT the diameter of the TB is split into which ups the velocity vs. a pipe with the same overall diameter. I am wondering how a variable venturi type of TB would change things!?
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
And another thing to consider is, if the neck of the intake measures the same as the bladed TB would not the neck still outflow the TB?
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
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To me this is the Simple stuff, and after all these years I would have thought there would be oodles of data, pointing to 1 piece up to around X HP, 2 piece to X + HP, well ported 2 piece to X ++ HP, ect ect. (+ respective powerband (RPM) changes)
plus the other variable, psi @ X-HP
you can just keeping cramming boost through it if you want, but @ what psi do the hp # not increase with the boost increments...
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Stock 1989 TII longblock with just "cleaning" of the intake runners and head ports with stock valves
Degreed stock cam
46 trim turbo @ 22-23psi
3" exhaust
3" CAI
The ol' 1150CFM Spearco FMIC with 2 1/5" hardpipes
FWD stage 5 cal, +40's and 3 bar
was the 300 hp at the motor or on the rollers? im trying to figure out where the extra 70hp came from? the "cleaning" of ports and intake, intercooler, turbo or cal?
because if a stock t2 engine makes about 215 hp @ 20 psi, (and factoring in about 10hp per psi of boost at 23 psi about 245hp?) how did you end up getting over the 300hp mark?
just a question not trying to grill ya, I understand its the matching of parts and making that combo work, but its seams higher than I would think on a swirl head and 1 piece intake...
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I have a dozen or more 1 piece intakes laying around and out of curiosity, I think I will cut one open and dble check
cut one right behind the fuel rail boss, pretty small cross section there too
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OmniLuvr
plus the other variable, psi @ X-HP
you can just keeping cramming boost through it if you want, but @ what psi do the hp # not increase with the boost increments...
was the 300 hp at the motor or on the rollers? im trying to figure out where the extra 70hp came from? the "cleaning" of ports and intake, intercooler, turbo or cal?
because if a stock t2 engine makes about 215 hp @ 20 psi, (and factoring in about 10hp per psi of boost at 23 psi about 245hp?) how did you end up getting over the 300hp mark?
just a question not trying to grill ya, I understand its the matching of parts and making that combo work, but its seams higher than I would think on a swirl head and 1 piece intake...
cut one right behind the fuel rail boss, pretty small cross section there too
I'd like to see that dyno graph too!!
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
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because if a stock t2 engine makes about 215 hp @ 20 psi
It should make more than that. I just ran my caravan with a stock 2.5 (except cam timing) to a calculated 220-230hp at 20psi WITH A MITSU. Long ago i also dyno'd a 2.5 with a garrett at FWD and it made ~212whp @16psi at 3700 RPM (!!?) because of some unknown combination of factors like possibly overadvanced cam timing and the fact that part of my exhaust went down close to 2". That's already making more power, at less boost, with stuff wrong with it, than your 215chp@20psi numbers.
A good running T2 setup @ 20 psi should be making 240+hp at the crank.
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
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Originally Posted by
Vigo
It should make more than that. I just ran my caravan with a stock 2.5 (except cam timing) to a calculated 220-230hp at 20psi WITH A MITSU. Long ago i also dyno'd a 2.5 with a garrett at FWD and it made ~212whp @16psi at 3700 RPM (!!?) because of some unknown combination of factors like possibly overadvanced cam timing and the fact that part of my exhaust went down close to 2". That's already making more power, at less boost, with stuff wrong with it, than your 215chp@20psi numbers.
A good running T2 setup @ 20 psi should be making 240+hp.
I would agree with that. I think my white Daytona was making just shy of 200HP to the wheels with just a MP computer. 196 or 198HP by my mph.
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
T2 Daytona with stock everything except 5th injector, 16lbs of boost, and crappy Volvo front mount put down 220hp/280tq on the dyno.
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
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Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
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The Daytona on the rollers with 52 mm TB, underdrive pulley, backcut valves, 3" exhaust, ported exhaust manifold and all of it boost setting.
Everything else bone stock.
254 hp, 321 ft/lbs
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
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Originally Posted by
mopar-tech
Nice! Not the number I was looking for though. I was hoping for Shadow's "simple" combo
So how much boost is "all of it"? 23 or so at about 4000 and trailing off to 18 ish at 6000?
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
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Originally Posted by
shadow88
So how much boost is "all of it"? 23 or so at about 4000 and trailing off to 18 ish at 6000?
<chuckle>
30 pounds on a stock 89 TII and boost starts far before 4000 rpm.
Biggest limitation on this package is the stock intercooler (5+ psi pressure difference between inlet/outlet) and the stock turbocharger (compressor out of map and back pressure in turbine)
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
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Originally Posted by
shadow88
I was hoping for Shadow's "simple" combo
It was not my car, and it was a long time ago, but IMS it was 328WHP, not 300 ;)
The extra HP came from the efficiency of the 46 trim turbo, combined with the mandrel 3" exhaust and 3" CAI. Also, the 1150CFM Spearco I/C's had almost Zippo for back pressure. A Great I/C for making efficient boost from a turbo, but not the greatest for cooling an overly Hot charge. @ only 23lbs boost, the I/C was a Great match. When we ran the 46 trim up to 28psi on another application (380WHP) I chose 2 stock I/C's y-piped for Better cooling :)
You are correct in mentioning the restriction just behind the inj bores. It Is for this reason that running any kind of well ported head with an unmodded 1 piece is like shooting yourself in the face with a BB gun. Also why the head was only "Cleaned" and portmatched ;)
I chopped a 1 piece apart yesterday and it all came back to me :) Pretty well Exactly what I remember Gus saying all those years ago;
The restriction is sig Smaller than the 52mm TB. I plotted it out on 1/4" graph paper and the restriction is 43-44 squares. 52mm TB is 52-53 squares. 46mm TB is 39-40 squares.
I Remember now, it was for this reason that we Never ran a 52mm TB on the stock 1 piece. IF someone wanted to keep the stock 1 piece intake as part of their build, the stock 46mm TB remained as well as limited head work ect.
I could post pics if needed........
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
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So how much boost is "all of it"? 23 or so at about 4000 and trailing off to 18 ish at 6000?
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30 pounds on a stock 89 TII and boost starts far before 4000 rpm.
I've never heard of a stock garrett holding 30+psi past the midrange. I have heard they fall to 18-21 at higher rpms. I think that's what was being asked about, not how soon you can make 30psi.
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Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vigo
I've never heard of a stock garrett holding 30+psi past the midrange. I have heard they fall to 18-21 at higher rpms. I think that's what was being asked about, not how soon you can make 30psi.
At least in the case of this 89 TII, you heard wrong. It would hold 30 psi all the way to the end, 12.6 at 110 mph in a Daytona.
Still have the motor untouched, it sits under the bench waiting to be utilized again.
I might have a video of it on the dyno when we were doing some pulls. If I have the old machine running I'll have to take a look.
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
That would be the first time i've heard that, for sure. Where were you measuring boost?
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
I know of at least one other person who has run very high 20s and the boost stays that high through the whole rpm range. A fairly stock motor will allow for a lot of boost out of a TII turbo.
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mopar-tech
At least in the case of this 89 TII, you heard wrong. It would hold 30 psi all the way to the end, 12.6 at 110 mph in a Daytona.
Still have the motor untouched, it sits under the bench waiting to be utilized again.
I might have a video of it on the dyno when we were doing some pulls. If I have the old machine running I'll have to take a look.
I remember you taking me for a ride in that Daytona at an SDAC event way back when and all I remember is scratching my head and wondering, how the heck you go that car to pull so hard with what little you had done to it. I think you had boost set around 16 to 18 lbs when you took me out.
I remember telling Pat and saying, I think Gary’s trying to pull a fast on me dude, there’s no way that the engine in that Daytona is basically stock.
Fun times. J
Re: How much hp is a slightly ported 1pc intake good for
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Originally Posted by
tryingbe
looks familiar , i mis messing with this stuff !