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TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
We are considering joining forces with Ken (aka 5 Digits) and offering Performance calibrations to the community, but, we are unsure if there will be enough demand. We would start off with Staged calibrations at first much like Mopar Performance offered. If there is enough interest we will likely go to Package deals with our other products and Custom cals based on individuals needs.
Let us know if this is something anyone would be interested in.
Thanks!
Chris-TU
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
Are you offering what Ken was talking about in this thread? http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...hlight=5digits
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
I would love the opportunity to have Ken's help getting my MeanMini calibration safely optimized! We all have suffered long enough... ;)
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
I'm in. 😎 Calibrations are out of my realm of expertise.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
I've had better luck with the Boost Button Stage II cals than with the Mopar Performance Stage II computers. No two Mopar Performance computers seem to run the same, even NOS units are inconsistent. The BB stage cals are smoother at idle and through the RPM range.
Just my two cents.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
I would love to find out what is wrong with the chip I bought from Boost Button a number of years ago, whether a questionable SBEC corrupted it or something else happened. It is one of the items holding back my Lebaron convertible project. I really would like to be able to have a flashable SBEC so I can update it like I do my Ford EEC-V system in my truck.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
To all....
There has been much discussion throughout the years of doing this which came with concerns of them being copied
Although, lets recall that these may be offered and may not align with anything used currently or in the past so it may be difficult to edit or alter them.
This isn't intentional - it's the result of being able to compile and format them as they were 30 years ago - not by hex editors, not by alternate subroutines but by means originally used.
Fuel, spark and other tables will not reside as they once did - they'll reside as they need to be in 2019.
Where knock lights and such were claimed as new tech, they existed in 1985.
Although, what didn't and doesn't exist is today's tech for the following:
- Alternate P/T and WOT fuel curves and tables to allow adaptives to do their job without disturbing performance gains
- Knock detection that inhibits detonation with minimal boost reduction, if any
- User programmable launch controls defined by the driver not by the calibrator
- Infinite boost control via driver input rather than a 14/18 psi switch
What is not being considered is:
- Deviating from a calibrated package.... E.g. If a different head, turbo, or otherwise is used - substandard operation could be realized
- As designed, no custom tuning will be available unless previously agreed upon while considering cold and hot, low and high altitude chamber testing is today's industry standard and costly to secure and accomplish.
With all this said, discussions are in their infancy but the hope is it will finally come to fruition.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
That sounds good although not being modifiable might be a concern for some people. I'm exited to see the result though.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
I would be in for a TIII cal.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
Glad to "see" you Ken
I would be interested in a cal
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
I'm definitely interested (have been) to see where this goes. I think keeping to a calibrated package must have its challenges like variances in porting of heads/manifolds and any assembly differences.
Would this possibly come with the integration of newer designed knock sensors or other sensors?
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
I might be interested, depending on where it all goes. My "race car" won't be running stock electronics at all, but my other vehicles would be nice.
Ken, is there possibility of adding functionality to the 3.0 (not talking about the A604...that's a whole different ball game) so they can run boost more easily?
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
Sounds a bit daunting, so many potential combos for a "canned" tune (variations in intakes, cams, head porting, etc).
Would the adaptives be capable of adjusting to those variations? Seems doable by todays standards, but we're talking about "yesteryear's" hardware...
What would be a realistic expectation for one of these cals to "figure out" the optimum tuning for a given combo?
This all said, I'd be in for at least one (most of mine are close to stock).
Mike
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
years ago there was a little dash mounted unit with +/- knobs for fuel and timing - I forget it's name now
that little amount of adjustability might be nice with an otherwise "canned" tune
curious , first, as to what power levels these calibrations would create or be aimed for (??)
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
I would absolutely love to have a 2.5L TIII '91 SBEC cal.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr. Johny Dodge
years ago there was a little dash mounted unit with +/- knobs for fuel and timing - I forget it's name now
that little amount of adjustability might be nice with an otherwise "canned" tune
curious , first, as to what power levels these calibrations would create or be aimed for (??)
maxon dual twister? -v-
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/at...id=64001&stc=1
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
yeah that'd be it
big mental block trying to remember that one .. thanks
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
Hello everyone.
There are some great thoughts being posted and many of them are capable - if not existing already.
What's worth mentioning is that most of the tech being discussed existed in the mid 80's but was held secretive, until now.
Using a battery temp sensor to adjust fuel/spark, knock lights, etc... many of the 'insider' cars had all this plus some, back in 1985.
If this comes to fruition, there may be many options available as these wouldn't be hex edited cals - they could/would exist as 'production compiled' software to meet the need.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
"everything old is new again"
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr. Johny Dodge
years ago there was a little dash mounted unit with +/- knobs for fuel and timing - I forget it's name now
that little amount of adjustability might be nice with an otherwise "canned" tune
curious , first, as to what power levels these calibrations would create or be aimed for (??)
Cindy also had the trimcal. It had a display and you could adjust boost level and timing or something. I forget.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
So if I read the other thread correctly an optimized cal for a stock 91 TIII would be available? If so I'm in for two
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
Ken, if the previously mentioned WOT closed loop programming would be a part of this, using a wideband O2 sensor, could it be set to control for lambda AFR?
My limited understanding is a lambda AFR target is the same across all fuel specific gravities? This would help when running blended fuels without the need of an alcohol content meter. Am i correct in that thinking?
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
While interested I went through 3 different "tuners" saying they could give me a calibration that suited my car. In the end I had to convert the car to SMEC, secured a flashable version and tuned it myself in an afternoon. They were either too rich or too lean. My driving style is such that I don't want the car to behave like 75% of the others out there do because they don't know any different or care to.
I think the details are lacking in exactly what is being offered here.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
The details are as such....
Closed loop WOT control is possible and has been achieved.
This is a significant contributor to making this work which now touches on how a single cal can fit many needs.. because its smart enough to do so.
Two items are critical to the effort - a 'true' wide band O2 and a thermocouple for EGT feedback.
The software needs to know these parameters to adjust internally and know when the demand has exceeded the mechanical limit; whether it be boost level, substandard fuel or otherwise.
As development continues, lets see where this next potential step may take us all... one step at a time.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
Pretty cool, I like the closed loop learning feature at WOT. :) Depending on price, I'd like one for my TIII van.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
I would be interested in this as well!
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
I have one 2.5L TIII built and on the stand. I have all the parts to build another. I have a local friend with a '91 Spirit R/T (2.2L) with a 400+ HP setup as well. It's kind of graduating away from +40s to get to the next level though.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
Here is a reference to a discussion a few years back on new calibration software
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...=1#post1117253
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
Appreciating that we are in the early stages but what is meant by “true” wideband O2? Also, would specific thermocouple be required or what would the parameters of the sensors need to be? Interested no matter what and would be willing to change sensors if necessary, but obviously would prefer not to. Also, would cal be sensitive to placement of wideband O2 and thermocouple?
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
This sounds very intriguing, I can imagine that with the limitations of OBD and other maintenance overhead/restrictions, that not only could power/driveability be optimized, but so could mileage!
In a related note, I've always been at a loss as to how an auto could be so much worse than a stick. While I understand that an auto uses power to operate, but I can't believe that's where all the energy goes...
So I'm expect the Wide Band provides the A/F feedback, the thermocouple provides feedback for optimizing timing... I'd love to have a more "modern"/commonly available knock sensor as part of the program/options.
In the end, I'm excited to see what an "unencumbered" program can do.
Mike
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
From my experience, the automatics are 3 gears with a torque converter, manuals are 5 gears with 5th being an overdrive gear. Right away you have the engine turning a lot more rpm at speed. If you have a late enough transmission and controls then you at least have a lock-up converter eliminating the slippage there. If the 41TE could be adapted to the 2.2/2.5L blocks, then you might get closer. Modern automatics have progressed to the point that some of them actually get better mileage than a manual.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
A lot of modern automatics can lock the torque converter in any gear aside from first. That helps efficiency a lot.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
Although I moved on to Microsquirt, I feel WOT closed loop may not be such a good idea as different wideband system have different latency.
https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/...tout/index.php
My favorite AEM wideband have a latency of <300ms, some wideband have more latency and some less.
My Microsquirt log says my turbo can spool up 5.6psi of boost in 300ms.
So, if I have close loop system in place, my ECU will always be adjusting for 300ms in the past. Idle and cursing it would be alright since engine stats is stable, but at WOT with boost building and 300ms latency, wouldn't that be too long for a closed loop?
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
Modern automatics have progressed to the point that some of them actually get better mileage than a manual.
good luck with those .. in several cases you can't get them repaired even at the dealer because some trans manufactures WILL NOT share the servicing / repairing info as they claim it as "intellectual property"
so before buying you might want to visit the service department first
this is going to become a huge issue with manufactures moving to have the notion of title and ownership changed into a "subscription"
don't be surprised when john deer stop updating your tractor .. or even replace it with some other new one..while you make payments , FOREVER and never "own" it
it's coming
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
My 1990 vintage E4OD can and does engage lockup in 2nd through 4th, unlocks briefly on upshift or downshift. Very interesting when I was pulling a good size load through the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel. Truck downshifted from 4th at roughly 1500 rpm, went to 2700 rpm and when the lockup engaged settled at 2200 rpm.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
My first understanding of this is simply the offering of canned LOCKED stage based tunes.
The other extra functions also would be assumed to be LOCKED.
I would pay for an interface more so than a canned tune.
That said,
Basic 3.0 calibrations that just erase or take the rev limiter to 8-10k and ditch speed limiter would allow camshaft upgrades. That could be sold as a package too with valve spring upgrades. People could piggyback modify the rest if the tunes must stay LOCKED. That would sell to all the Facebook G body group owners.
Rob M. has mentioned that 3.0 cal don't have a load based WOT timing table. This causes problems for our attempts at 2 and 3 bar calibrations. If unlocked, this would be a great ability.
Erasing egr routines/codes
Launch control and flat shifting strategies.
Pipe dream a604 unlocked full tuning.
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I do not grasp some of the cool functions mentioned being 100% locked down. Locked Custom calibrations seem to always have been a pain since customer vehicles are often defective and calibrations get blamed or retuned instead of fixed. I have watched people ship ECU back and forth like this. Remote tuning is a 10+ year old practice. No shipping.
User programmable would be the dream for most who have significant investments. Having no idea what your tune is doing with a big dollar shortblock etc would be uncomfortable.
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
Harry,
That is a good point to consider.
Regarding that article and widebands in general: I couldn't find any date on the article but the Innovate model mentioned has been discontinued and I didn't see any mention of the current Bosch LSU 4.9 sensor. So I'm thinking the article may be a bit old. But as far as the comparison- I would think the tested latency differences were more a function of the different manufacturer's controllers. It would be interesting to see what specs Bosch has for the current sensors themselves. I haven't been able to find this info.
I have a Megasquirt question but need to find where that discussion thread is.
I found this article interesting regarding widebands:
http://www.nzefi.com/bosch-lsu-wide-...-applications/
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tryingbe
Although I moved on to Microsquirt, I feel WOT closed loop may not be such a good idea as different wideband system have different latency.
https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/...tout/index.php
My favorite AEM wideband have a latency of <300ms, some wideband have more latency and some less.
My Microsquirt log says my turbo can spool up 5.6psi of boost in 300ms.
So, if I have close loop system in place, my ECU will always be adjusting for 300ms in the past. Idle and cursing it would be alright since engine stats is stable, but at WOT with boost building and 300ms latency, wouldn't that be too long for a closed loop?
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Re: TU working with Ken@5 Digits to offer Calibrations, but, is there demand?
Interesting read on the sensor comparison test. I have an Innovate LC-1 system in my truck to monitor the AFR for tuning the EEC-V system. It was recommended by the people I purchased my tuning hardware and software from. I have had one sensor fail, but the system was purchased used. The output from it can be connected to a laptop during datalogging to add to the other parameters being monitored.