Okay, I remember reading somewhere that internally the 413 turbo and early neon 3 speed tranny is exactly the same. So what do I need to do to get a 3 speed neon tranny up to turbo specs?
~~Heath
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Okay, I remember reading somewhere that internally the 413 turbo and early neon 3 speed tranny is exactly the same. So what do I need to do to get a 3 speed neon tranny up to turbo specs?
~~Heath
Are you thinking of making your charger an auto now? I just trashed 2 413s also I would have given them to you so ou could have anything out of them but ill keep my eyes out from some more parts.
I am not 100% sure that I will be able to make the NVT350 fit wihtout major work. so I am just trying to keep my options open. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by WVRampage
well its already the same/better stuff except for a lockup sol(and lu input shaft/convertor) and larger/better bearing housing.
So I could get a ALTO 413 rebuild kit, rebuild a neon 413(Whatever it's designation is), and viola..turbo neon tranny?Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedeuphoria
well you could get a neon rebuild kit and then get an extra rear clutch and the steels from a 78-80 trans(they are smaller so you can fit 5 in the rear) then ditch the wave rings for solid rings(or the alto clutches)
either way the diff/VB/convertor are all weak from the factory
I suggest a TD non lockup shaft/convertor
a RMVB
OBX diff
do some reading of the stickies and such because depending on how much power you are making the input shaft can also break
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9547 This may help you out a bit.
I wouldnt buy anything from FM unless you want to over pay. A rebuild kit for these trans is like$75 and is missing the over run clutch and thrust washer, like I said you can get different steels and more clutches for like$10Quote:
Originally Posted by WVRampage
Don't Neons have 3 clutch discs? if so, you'll need to step up to the TD 4 pack and then either add 1 more or leave them. Some have mentioned the Alto 5 packs are too thin and sheer. I just did the A404 trick on the forward clutch, used 4 thin steels and one reg one to get 5 discs in there and around .040 clearance.
all neons come w/ 4/4 clutch setup from the factory AFAIK
I have a newer mini trans and I know for sure that they do.
0.040 is pretty loose you beter be prepared for some serious flare.Quote:
I just did the A404 trick on the forward clutch, used 4 thin steels and one reg one to get 5 discs in there and around .040 clearance.
How tight do you want it? everyone says 40-50 thou?Quote:
Originally Posted by 89shelby2.4
I set mine 15 to 18 thou. alto recommends 18 thou.with the selective snap ring.I know if mine is at 40 thou it will flare like a mutha.:thumb:
Ok, I have to replace my TC anyhow, it let go the other week so I'll redo it. Need to remove the black tar I now have instead of cherry red Amsoil, :(Quote:
Originally Posted by 89shelby2.4
how are you setting it though? Is that the size that will just squeze in there or fit gently?Quote:
Originally Posted by 89shelby2.4
Fairly snug but not so tight that you have to jam it in.:eyebrows:Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedeuphoria
That's a misprint from Alto. I phoned them and checked in on that cuz it sounded too tight for the front clutch. That spec is for the rear clutch, not the front clutch. They accidently put the rear clutch spec in the front clutch box.Quote:
Originally Posted by 89shelby2.4
A "rule of thumb" in the tranny world for a shifting clutch (such as our front clutch) .010"-.015" per clutch/steel. So if you have a front clutch setup of 5 clutches, then .050" would be a good clearance.
A "rule of thumb" spec for a "holding" clutch (our rear clutch) .005"-.010" per clutch/steel.
.018" is too little for the front clutch. There's not enough clearance for the clutches to slip properly when it's not engaged. It will create extra heat, added wear, and you'll lose hp from the added "tightness".
Chad Kilback "Kil-time Tranny Tuning" ckilback3@nucleus.com
Calgary, Alberta SDAC
88 Daytona Shelby "Zedd"
12.43 @ 111 quickest time
12.6 @ 113.00 fastest time
87 New Yorker "Norker Zedd" 2.5L TII 14.6 @ 93
You want to squeeze it in very tightly. Why? When the clutch is engaging, it's squeezing everything together with hundreds of pounds of force. All that force will squeeze out every bit of clearance it possibly can. If you fit the feelers too loose, you'll get a false reading, cuz the force of the clutches will "squeeze out" more clearance than what your loosly fitting feeler gauges will read. You actually do want to "jam it in there".Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedeuphoria
Chad Kilback
Thats why my car is so slow I was begining to get frustrated.Ive set my front clutch at 40 thou before and it flared quite a bit between 2nd and 3rd,tightened it up and no flare at all.My trans temp gauge stays at 180 degrees ran it hard all summer with countless passes at the strip.Thats interesting though,is it possible that this would slow topend mph?I had my other trans in the 8 valve setup the same way when I pulled it apart the clutches showed almost no wear I even compared them to the new ones with digital caliper measurements.That trans had over 100 passes at the strip and I dont know how many street miles.Quote:
It will create extra heat, added wear, and you'll lose hp from the added "tightness".
It won't create any drag when it's in 3rd gear when the front clutch is engaged. It will in 1st and 2nd though. How much will it lose? I don't know, maybe 5 to 10 hp? Maybe not enough where you'd notice it at your power level. Besides, YOU won't notice it in 1st and 2nd gear when you already smoke the tires through these two gears :eyebrows:Quote:
Originally Posted by 89shelby2.4
It won't create heat like a slipping converter, or a clutch that *is* engaged but slipping. But the extra friction from the added tightness will obviously create more heat. Especially in 1st gear when the steels are rotating counter-clockwise and are rubbing against the frictions which are spinning clockwise. Not as bad in 2nd gear when the steels are stationary while the frictions are still spinning clockwise.Quote:
Ive set my front clutch at 40 thou before and it flared quite a bit between 2nd and 3rd,tightened it up and no flare at all.My trans temp gauge stays at 180 degrees ran it hard all summer with countless passes at the strip.
Maybe if you go through the traps in 2nd gear at 10,000 rpm :)Quote:
Thats interesting though,is it possible that this would slow topend mph?
Don't take my word for it on the added drag, see for youself. Lube up and install some (5) clutches in the front drum and set clearance to say .050". Then engage the front drum onto it's hub and spin the front drum and note how much drag there is.Quote:
I had my other trans in the 8 valve setup the same way when I pulled it apart the clutches showed almost no wear I even compared them to the new ones with digital caliper measurements.That trans had over 100 passes at the strip and I dont know how many street miles.
Then, set the clearance to .020" and spin again and note how much drag there is and compare.
This is one of those things where someone's ventured out of the "rule of thumb" area and it seems to be working so far. It may work great for the actual 2-3 shift, but I still feel this isn't enough clearance for 5 clutches when they're not engaged during 1st and 2nd gear.
Chad Kilback