What happened to my tranny?

[cleverklutz]

I'm getting ignored on TD.com so I came over here. Not the same there without 22mopar anyhow. Here is what I posted before, I tried to be as detailed as possible.

Last night I was driving my car (1993 Dynasty) home late at night and winding it out whenever I wasn't meeting traffic. I had just met a car and had slowed to 110kmh and then put it to the floor, the car downshifted into 2nd like it's supposed to. Then a car came over a rise in the road and I let off. I punched it and let off during/just after the downshift. The car made a little bit of a "clunk" noise, very similar actually to hitting the rev limiter/governor. I thought that was very weird as it's not supposed to do that at that speed. I ran it through the gears, and it seemed fine. I continued to drive it home and then noticed that I was smelling something burning. I checked my gauges and all okay. When I got home about 6 miles from where I heard the clunk, the car still smelled like something burning, so I looked under it and there was a puddle of oil. I popped the hood and there was ATF everywhere. When I checked the ATF this morning it was completely dry. The car doesn't move until you rev it up and hold it for several seconds. (I did this before I checked the oil level, I'm not that stupid! ) So what I'm wondering is would this describe what happens when the tranny blows out a seal, or is this the famous diff pin cracking the housing? Can the car still drive if it throws the pin? I wasn't spinning when it did that. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you.

My brother and I are kinda leaning towards the diff pin being thrown, and we need to figure that out before we try to move it. The car needs to make it to our farm 50mi away. We're planning on filling the ATF and driving, but it's empty after 6mi so I'm thinking bad idea. What about towing in neutral idling? Trailer isn't really an option. I just need to figure out before we move the car if the tranny is shot or not, if it's just a leak then I don't want to screw the whole tranny up. Thank you.

[Shadow]

Jack up the car and figure out where the fluid is leaking from, unless of course, you can tell by looking under the hood. When you find where it's coming from it will prob answer your Q as to wether it can be driven. (ie. if there's a hole in the case or not)

[GLHSKEN]

Yep, find the leak and decide then. You are burning the clutches. That is the smell. 22MOPAR is here now. Same feisty self, but respectful of the differing attitude on this board

[22mopar]

one can only handle so much stupidity. funny thing is the stupider people are, the more offended they get when you inform them of such.

as for your trans problem, if you find transmission fluid on the top of the transmission, you have either a broken case or a cooler line leaking. if you have fluid leaking from under the trans it could be easily a dozen things. do more research as to your problem then report. you can easily pull off the differential cover, and look inside for a pin problem if no pin problem, you clunk description sounds like it could be a couple hundred things, need more information.. I'll give a couple thoughts, bad engine mounts, trans going into limp in (assuming it's a overdrive you never stated what engine/trans it has)

[turbovanman²]

If its leaking oil that bad than either have a quick look where it sits or tow it. If you've been driving it a bit with the low oil then its quite possible the clutch's are now burn't. They say don't tow with the front wheels on the ground but if you drive slowly, and make sure the tranny is full, I can't see you doing any damage if you stop and start up the car once in a while.

[CUDA 1]

Don't tow it on its front wheels if the diff pin is broke! If that is what's wrong the damage is already done but nothing good could come from towing it and having the wheels lock up on it even if you are moving slow.

[cleverklutz]

I hadn't been able to see where the tranny was dripping before because I think it was basically dry. After filling there was oil pouring out from the bellhousing. It looks like some sort of internal damage, most likely the diff pin trying to exit I would assume. I managed to drive the car home all 50 miles. I had to stop twice and refill when the shifting became erratic and the trans started slipping. I was amazed that it never went into limp mode, I thot that if you had any air in the tranny it would just have 2nd & reverse, but it was still shifting, even overdrive! (Not bad for a tranny that has basically no fluid!) I don't know how much slipping it actually did, but I think the whole tranny is pretty much shot, but it was still cheaper/easier to drive it than to it. My brother is lending me his car now so I'm not even in a bind. At least now I don't urgently need to know what happened and it feels better to have the stress gone! Thanks for all your help!

Sorry I forgot to mention what tranny/motor, I did that on the other forum in my title. :( 22mopar you were right with your assumption, 3.3/A604

P.S. The amount of responses here I recieved and the time it took for them was extremely impressive, I think I'm here to stay! How this forum is so efficient as compared to the other with so few members in comparision I don't understand, but I definitely appreciate! :D I think I'm hooked. (Brace yourselves for more questions as I free up money to work on my 83 Aries 2 door. I'm sure to have a few things to ponder over!:)

[22mopar]

hopefully you won't become an information Diode... if you don't know what a Diode is, look it up.

[1FastCSX289]

If fluid is coming out of the bell housing, chances are you wiped out the pump bushing. This is the bushing the torque convertor rides on, which holds back fluid pressure......many people make the mistake of assuming its the seal that is leaking, but if youre losing fluid profusely from the front, chances are its the bushing. The seal is only meant to hold back the small amount of fluid which normally seeps past the bushing.

[22mopar]

If fluid is coming out of the bell housing, chances are you wiped out the pump bushing. This is the bushing the torque convertor rides on, which holds back fluid pressure......many people make the mistake of assuming its the seal that is leaking, but if youre losing fluid profusely from the front, chances are its the bushing. The seal is only meant to hold back the small amount of fluid which normally seeps past the bushing.

It's pretty rare for 604 to have the seal and bushing that bad, infact I've never seen one pouring from the seal (slight seepage yes but never a huge leak) but I've seen a lot of broken cases next to the pump where the diff pin did a naughty thing.

[turbovanman²]

I would say diff pin but of course, thats a guess. The pump o-ring can go, that happened to me and that will leak like a mofo or the TC pads could have cracked. Had a customer car with that, figured that out after I fixed his pump leak and had to pull the trans again, :censored:

[1FastCSX289]

It's pretty rare for 604 to have the seal and bushing that bad, infact I've never seen one pouring from the seal (slight seepage yes but never a huge leak) but I've seen a lot of broken cases next to the pump where the diff pin did a naughty thing.

His car is still driving, no? Usually when they throw that pin through the case, that means no more go.....and if it moves is would be accompanied by the rather tell-tail noise of scraping, grinding, and general carnage from under the car.

[GLHSKEN]

His car is still driving, no? Usually when they throw that pin through the case, that means no more go.....and if it moves is would be accompanied by the rather tell-tail noise of scraping, grinding, and general carnage from under the car.


Yep. Had that happen in memphis to my 520.

[1FastCSX289]

Check the diff cover. If the pin slid out enough to crack the case, but still continue to allow the car to move, chances are it dented the diff cover and you would see it externally. But, I would lean away from the diff pin as a possible cause otherwise......its not really that common on the earlier units as opposed to the 95+'s. If you dont see a dented cover, I would suspect the convertor bushing (which despite what 22 mopar says, DOES happen....although not common) or possibly cracked convertor neck or something like that.

[turbovanman²]

His car is still driving, no? Usually when they throw that pin through the case, that means no more go.....and if it moves is would be accompanied by the rather tell-tail noise of scraping, grinding, and general carnage from under the car.


I would agree but when Boostboy bought his Omni, he said it make this clunking/banging noise then slowed down, he said he saw oil underneath so he let it cool off and then drove it out to my shop, aprox 45 min drive. I drove it around the block, sounded fine and then put it in the air, I couldn't believe what I saw, the case had a nice hole and was empty!!!!!!! :wow1:

[1FastCSX289]

I would agree but when Boostboy bought his Omni, he said it make this clunking/banging noise then slowed down, he said he saw oil underneath so he let it cool off and then drove it out to my shop, aprox 45 min drive. I drove it around the block, sounded fine and then put it in the air, I couldn't believe what I saw, the case had a nice hole and was empty!!!!!!! :wow1:

Yea, I have heard of that happening too.......I guess just the ones ive seen.....clunk, bang, no go. But, like I said, its a lot more common on the newer ones (95-99 604's). If he checks the diff cover he should see evidence of it if it did throw the pin.

[cleverklutz]

I got the tranny pulled apart on the weekend. The diff cover is fine. There's a nice hole up by the torque convertor though. It looks like the pin came out, whacked the case, and got shoved back in. It was only sticking out maybe 1/4" from where it's supposed to be. The maddening thing is I didn't realize until I looked at it that I could have put in the diff pin retainers without removing the tranny! :( Oh well, live and learn. I was amazed at how well that car drove without tranny fluid! Lots of people say 604's are weak but on the way home it shifted through all gears, and we backed it out of the shop with no fluid in the tranny and the diff cover off! :wow1:

I am wondering though what to do to the new tranny. Will diff pin retainers be enough, or should I look into a lsd to limit the spinning that I do? I drive the car hard, but don't spin it too terribly much, but it does see some spinning on at least a weekly basis, but no one wheel wonders. (Not like it has the balls to spin the tires on pavement anyways!) It would be cool if I could get away with just diff pin retainers, that would be much cheaper, and the car handles fine on snow/gravel with an open diff and I don't want to change that.

Thanks.

[turbovanman²]

Pics?

Diff pin savers are fine for what you are doing.