New tire position question?

[turbovanman]

I am arguing with my neighbour over tire position. We all know that FWD, you put the newer/better tires on the rear due to the lack of weight and the front tires have more weight.

A customer wanted me to put his newer tires on the front of his 4x4 fullsize truck and leave the marginal ones on the back. I agree as the front won't wash out and it will brake better plus in 4 wheel drive the front can pull the front end around. My neighbour says put the new tires on the back?

[Frank]

Does it matter what the customer want? ;) Seriously, I would put the newer in the back just because on a 4x4 wheel drive vehicle, there is less nose diving then your minivan. It is not as important. While it is 4x4, the most torque falls to the rear wheels because you have less gear lash and respond better since you dont have to go thru as much of the transfer case.


Frank

[turbovanman]

It does as I WANT to know for my own personal knowledge and I want to beat Mr know-it-all next door, hehehehe, :p

[cordes]

When ever replacing less than 4 new tires, I (and virtually every tire and vehicle manufacturer in the world) recommend that the new tires be placed in the rear regardless of what drive it is.

In all reality if the 4x4 vehicle in question has worn enough tires to make a difference between the front and back, I would replace all 4 anyway to put a little less stress on the transfer case etc. There can be qiute a difference in circumfrence depending on size, type of tread and such, which is magnified at higher speeds.

[shadow88]

Personally, especially on fwd's, I put new tires on the front. The front tires do 100% of the steering, 70% of the braking, and 100% accelerating (FWD).

In wet weather the front tires cut more of a path for the rear wheels. As long as the rolling diameter isn't too much, it won't kill the transfer case.

[cordes]

When ever replacing less than 4 new tires, I (and virtually every tire and vehicle manufacturer in the world) recommend that the new tires be placed in the rear regardless of what drive it is.


Once more, as I miss the arguments with customers from my days in the TC.

[turbovanman]

Personally, especially on fwd's, I put new tires on the front. The front tires do 100% of the steering, 70% of the braking, and 100% accelerating (FWD).

In wet weather the front tires cut more of a path for the rear wheels. As long as the rolling diameter isn't too much, it won't kill the transfer case.

Manufacterers recommend and state that new tires must be put on the rear of FWD cars/vans. If you don't, the back end will kick out when you least expect it. I have had the experience of low tread tires on the rear and its unstable in snow and slick roads, the back end will step out in a sharp corner or when turning.

[shadow88]

Manufacterers recommend and state that new tires must be put on the rear of FWD cars/vans. If you don't, the back end will kick out when you least expect it. I have had the experience of low tread tires on the rear and its unstable in snow and slick roads, the back end will step out in a sharp corner or when turning.

I understand the risks, but that's why I said my personal preference :thumb:

I would rather get the best bite on the front tires for the reasons I already stated. If the vehilce tends to "walk" on slippery roads, slow down.

Where have you read this manufacturers recommendations? Tire makers or car makers?

[cordes]

I understand the risks, but that's why I said my personal preference :thumb:

I would rather get the best bite on the front tires for the reasons I already stated. If the vehilce tends to "walk" on slippery roads, slow down.

Where have you read this manufacturers recommendations? Tire makers or car makers?


Both.

[shadow88]

With all due respect. Would you be able to show me this information? I've never seen it in any mopar fsm, nor have I seen it on any tire sites.

[cordes]

I don't have any copies, but I sure had a lot of literature while I was working in a tire shop. I know %100 for a fact, that it is the policy of Michelin/BFG, Bridgeston/Firestone. I have also read in a couple of owners manuals that it should be done that way.

I know that the was a company or two that recently stated that they should be put on the rear for a particular model, but that was for a mechanical reason rather than for overall safty.

[turbovanman]

With all due respect. Would you be able to show me this information? I've never seen it in any mopar fsm, nor have I seen it on any tire sites.


You won't find it in a Mopar FSM. Go to a reputable tire shop, its posted on the wall. I'll see if my OK Tire dealer has one up and I'll copy it.

[GLHNSLHT2]

If I put the new tires on the back they'd never wear out. Case in point I've had my Yoko AVS Intermediates for like 5 years on the back. They're still good. Meanwhile I've gone through 3 set's of front tires. Tire manufacturer's and Car makers WANT the car to understeer. It's easier for people to control. I like my car to be nuetral with just a tad bit of oversteer. Not that the worn tires really make it slide the but that much, but they don't do anything other than follow the fronts in our cars. Might as well have good tires where all the work is being done.

[Frank]

Simon, I have never heard of it either. You asked, so I provided an answer. It is all speculation really.


Frank

[turbovanman]

Simon, I have never heard of it either. You asked, so I provided an answer. It is all speculation really.


Frank

My question was about 4x4's which you answered so whats the above remark for? :confused:

[Whorse]

I understand the risks, but that's why I said my personal preference :thumb:

I would rather get the best bite on the front tires for the reasons I already stated. If the vehilce tends to "walk" on slippery roads, slow down.


I agree with this. Just went through this with my lebaron. Worn tires up front and my braking was scary, especially in the rain, tires would spin with a little too much throttle and always broke loose in first and second as the revvs climbed. Put them on the back and the good tires up front, and fixed all this. Driving in the snow and ice, the back end did get a bit loose, but I had enough weight that it wasn't like driving a truck with a loose back end, and slowing down kept it from sliding out on me.

I think for safety reasons, the tire manufacturers will say put good tires on the back because a back end sliding out is more dangerous to most people. It's the same as building cars to understeer because people are most likely to hit the brakes when they hit a corner too fast, and this works with understeering. Most people won't hit the throttle to put weight to the back if it slides out in a RWD.

[Devsdaytona]

Really, the only thing the rear tires do on a fwd is hold up the trunk.

On my car, the good tires always go on the front, it just makes more sense, although I ain't no grandma and the backend sliding out tends to help on autocross and loooks pretty damn cool on the speedway.

[Subliminal]

I go new on the front, too. Who cares if the back kicks out.

I'm a drifter, son, rekognize!

[Whorse]

Good point about autocross. I think the back end sliding is only a problem in slippery conditions on the street where it's a safety issue, although that's what this thread is about.

[oldgregg]

Personally, especially on fwd's, I put new tires on the front. The front tires do 100% of the steering, 70% of the braking, and 100% accelerating (FWD).

In wet weather the front tires cut more of a path for the rear wheels. As long as the rolling diameter isn't too much, it won't kill the transfer case.100% true, RWD or FWD, new tires ALWAYS on the front due to steering/cornering/handling/braking.

[shadow88]

Even as the thread stated a question about 4x4's.... I'd still prefer the best tires on the front.

If I can't find the new tire placement recomendations in FSM's or my girlfriend's neon's owners manual. Where is one to find this information?

I've sent an e-mail to michelin regarding this question and I'm waiting for a response.

[Speedeuphoria]

I need traction so I put them in the front(this is for snow driving and yes the back end kicks out, but your already sliding all over any way, plus it makes it easier to point and shoot)

[shadow88]

Well, I have a responce from Michelin.

Thank you for your interest in Michelin tires and for sending us your email.
We appreciate the opportunity to serve you.

Michelin's position (as well as the tire industry as a whole) is that when
replacing only two tires, the new tires should be placed on the rear.

The new tires with deeper tread will provide better grip and evacuate water
more effectively. This is extremely important as a driver approaches
hydroplaning situations in wet weather. Placing the tires with the greater
traction capability on the rear of the vehicle is more apt to prevent an
oversteer condition and a loss of vehicle stability when driving on wet
surfaces. A basic definition of oversteer is a driving condition in which
the rear tires of a vehicle have less grip on the driving surface than the
front tires.

If your questions have not been answered to your satisfaction, please call
me at 1-888-871-4444 (toll-free) between 8:30AM and 6:00PM Eastern Time
Monday through Friday.

Sincerely,
Bobby
Michelin North America
Consumer Relations


I'm a little surprised. But stand corrected. I've still not seen anything from the vehicle manufacturer, but I suppose this trumps their recommendations.

Even still, I'm going to continue to put the best tires on the front.:eyebrows:

[Whorse]

Reiterates my point that cars are built to understeer because of how people react. Straight out of the FSM.

[turbovanman]

Hmmmmmm, interesting. A little suprised they would say that about RWD too.

[cordes]

Hmmmmmm, interesting. A little suprised they would say that about RWD too.

Nope. It is pretty much summed up in post #4. :nod:

[turbovanman]

Nope. It is pretty much summed up in post #4. :nod:


Well its not a 50/50 split so worn tires won't make any difference now if your running different ratio tires, then hell yeah, :thumb:
If the rpm between the front and rear was that bad, the ABS light would come on, which it hasn't.

[88_pacifica]

I can see both sides of the fence here. I think it really depends on the drivers experience. If technicality is what you want, then it probably should go on the front if you are thinking for 90% of the unskilled drivers on the road. Putting the better tire on the front lowers the likelihood of a blowout. If one of the front tires has a blowout, most unskilled drivers immediately hard brake and sometimes turn the wheel at the same time. Obviously, this leads to instant loss of control. I remember in my younger days of constant bald tires on my RWD G bodied GM's(Monte's, Cutlasses, etc), bald went on back dso you don't lose it @ 80 mph. I think that a fishtail effect is easier to recover from than the classic oversteer/understeer "walking" frontend. Now, if your significant other was in the car which would you choose. That is the response that I would use for 90% of America. They are not "seasoned" with a "above average, peppy" car... just my .02..

[contraption22]

A real reputable tire retailer would recommend that you rotate your tires regularly so that the tread front and rear stay even and you don't find yourself in the situation of having 2 bald tires and 2 tires with 3/4 tread.

[cordes]

A real reputable tire retailer would recommend that you rotate your tires regularly so that the tread front and rear stay even and you don't find yourself in the situation of having 2 bald tires and 2 tires with 3/4 tread.

in seven years, I can probably count on one hand the number of people I had that regularly rotated and balanced their tires.

[contraption22]

in seven years, I can probably count on one hand the number of people I had that regularly rotated and balanced their tires.

And thats why so many people end up with 2 bald tires. The place where I used to work, many many many customers came back for their free lifetime balancing and rotation.

[cordes]

And thats why so many people end up with 2 bald tires. The place where I used to work, many many many customers came back for their free lifetime balancing and rotation.

Hmmm. that is interesting. Perhaps a geographical or cultural difference in car maintenence. We had people coming in all the time for it, but there were a very select few who did it on a set schedule and stuck to it for the life of the tires.

[turbovanman]

I always rotate my customers tires but not everyone wants to. You can advise but if they don't want to do it, not much you can do.

[TurboJerry]

I always rotate my customers tires but not everyone wants to. You can advise but if they don't want to do it, not much you can do.

Really? How much smoke do you get????? (We used to joke about *rotating* tires and getting lots of smoke) I think if you know how to drive, then put the new ones on the front, if you are afaraid of sliding the rear, or don't know how to drive, then put the new ones on the rear....... I have new tires on one car and they are junk.... It slides easily while cornering at *moderate* speeds.......

[22mopar]

one concern I would have is it the truck is full time 4x4, having any mis matched tires is a bad idea. just recently, I had to fix a transfer case due to a customer that had 2 different brand tires but the same size. when I physically measured circumference, there was 1½" difference which caused the transfer case to fail. it's like having 2 different size tires on a RWD car, the differential takes a pounding because the spider gears are constantly turning due the circumference difference.

[oldgregg]

A real reputable tire retailer would recommend that you rotate your tires regularly so that the tread front and rear stay even and you don't find yourself in the situation of having 2 bald tires and 2 tires with 3/4 tread.
Actually, the only reason they recommend rotating so you have to buy 4 tires at once vs 2 tires one year & 2 the next, & possibly buying the next 2 elsewhere, not at the shop your buying form at the moment.

Rotating all 5 (when the spare used to be full sized), now 4, is a sales gimmick that made its way into owners manuals.

[Charger R/T]

Interesting thread. I have never heard of the new tires to the rear and have always put new ones up front. I usually put 4 new tires on my vehicles when I buy them regardless of what the tires on it look like. But with kids and the cost to raise them it gets hard to do. I'll have to think about what I will do in the future. My one van is running 2 differant sets right now because of a front end issue taking 2 out a while back. I have the better tires up front right now. Maybe I'll swap them it is about time to rotate them.

As far as the original question. I work for a small county and the sheriffs department has quite a few 4x4's. The service deptartment services them every 3k and pulls tires, check brakes, and rotate them every other service. This works well and most end up getting 4 tires at a time. But some deputys don't bring them in on time so a brake check and rotate can end up at 10k instead of the 6k. With the agressive thread we run on those vehicles it can get the front tires singing pretty loud if not brought in on time. Because of this any that do get just 2 tires always get the new ones on the front. Singing tires put to the rear stop singing pretty quick. So because of the siging tires the used ones get put in the rear to smooth them out. Another note none of our vehicles ever run their tires down to the thread bar before replacment.
Tim

[shadow88]

Well, here's another thought. Lets assume (don't start that) the better tires should ALWAYS be on the rear for the reasons provided by michelin and some of the previous posts.

Then why would you ever want to rotate them? Most cars on the road are FWD and they'll always wipe out the front tires 1st. Which is perfect for keeping better tires on the rear :)

[BadAssPerformance]

100% true, RWD or FWD, new tires ALWAYS on the front due to steering/cornering/handling/braking.

Nope, not 100%. I thought this was true until about 10 years ago when I spun my '87 CSX #252 180* on the highway at 80mph. Good front tires, bald rear tires...

[turbovanman]

Well, here's another thought. Lets assume (don't start that) the better tires should ALWAYS be on the rear for the reasons provided by michelin and some of the previous posts.

Then why would you ever want to rotate them? Most cars on the road are FWD and they'll always wipe out the front tires 1st. Which is perfect for keeping better tires on the rear :)


Because in warmer climates are summer, having the rear step out due to rain and snow is not going to happen, :thumb:

[cordes]

Actually, the only reason they recommend rotating so you have to buy 4 tires at once vs 2 tires one year & 2 the next, & possibly buying the next 2 elsewhere, not at the shop your buying form at the moment.

Rotating all 5 (when the spare used to be full sized), now 4, is a sales gimmick that made its way into owners manuals.

So, you are saying they recommend it solely because they want to sell tires in sets of 4 rather than because having 4 equally worn tires of the same type on all 4 corners is the best way to do it? I would like to sell everyone 4 at once, but if you get two from me now, you will be back later.

Calling that theory far fetched is being very polite. Moreover, you really do not want to be associated with the people that come in and say that. I am not implying that you are dumb at all, but people that give me that line are always the stupiest people to walk through the door.

Although incorperating the full sized spare is a good idea on paper, you would be amazed at all the people that have done this through the years only to find that the last time the tires were rotated there was a little piece of metal in the tire that ended up in the trunk, and now it is flat when you need it most. I have seen that happen to people more times than I have seen glass puncture a tire. Literally.

[turbovanman]

I think the 5 tire rotation is a gimmick. Getting at those spare tires is a PITA not too mention most spare tires are mini spare's anyhow. How many people will pay for you to swap in the full size spare? I would venture to say 1 out of 1000.

[cordes]

I think the 5 tire rotation is a gimmick. Getting at those spare tires is a PITA not too mention most spare tires are mini spare's anyhow. How many people will pay for you to swap in the full size spare? I would venture to say 1 out of 1000.

we would rotate them any way you wanted for free.

[turbovanman]

we would rotate them any way you wanted for free.

Wow, I won't do that, 30 mins spent for a free tire rotation. No way hosee, :thumb:

[cordes]

Wow, I won't do that, 30 mins spent for a free tire rotation. No way hosee, :thumb:

I did a set of 4 on a tarus with another guy in 7min once. Don't know the record for rotations...

[shadow88]

Because in warmer climates are summer, having the rear step out due to rain and snow is not going to happen, :thumb:

Having the rear step out in rain isn't going to happen? :confused:

[turbovanman]

Having the rear step out in rain isn't going to happen? :confused:

No, its summer, so the possibility of have the rear step out is not going to happen.

My quote says "due to rain and snow" so that means no rain or snow, no stepping out.

[shadow88]

Rrrrrriiiiight.....but you're in Vancouver where it rains at a moments notice. Even in the summer.

Let's go back to my question, if you will, why rotate tires at all if you want the best ones on the rear?

[cordes]

Rrrrrriiiiight.....but you're in Vancouver where it rains at a moments notice. Even in the summer.

Let's go back to my question, if you will, why rotate tires at all if you want the best ones on the rear?


Because when you rotate them there is virtually no difference between the ones in the front and those in the rear. Thus you have 4 tires taht are worn equally which is best for overall vehicle safty.

[shadow88]

Because when you rotate them there is virtually no difference between the ones in the front and those in the rear. Thus you have 4 tires taht are worn equally which is best for overall vehicle safty.


That's assuming you didn't just replace 2 tires. What then?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer in vehicle maintenence including tire rotations and balancing. Sometime replacing only 2 tires is all that's in the budget at that point.

[cordes]

That's assuming you didn't just replace 2 tires. What then?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer in vehicle maintenence including tire rotations and balancing. Sometime replacing only 2 tires is all that's in the budget at that point.

It is always "best" to replace all 4 at the same time. However if you can't afford to, or if you have two on the car that are virtually new etc. just make sure the best tires (tread wise) end up in the rear of the car. If the ones in the front are super new, but in need of a rotation, we would leave the new ones up front on rare occasion if someone was cool. If they wanted to be a jerk about it, well that was a different story all together.

[Mario]

Here's another fact to throw in the mix. If you have a blow out in the rear, for example, new tires up front, old / dry rotted tires on the rear, you have a blow out, how easy is it for the average drive to correct that? Blow out up front....you have steering of the front wheels. Easily corrected.

Another fun one:
$32.4 million. That's what Michelin recently had to pay out for a similar incident. Lady had an accident.....new tires were put on front. She put the blame on Michelin for not ensuring their dealers put the tires on the rear. Michelin is now repealing the lawsuit.

[turbovanman]

Here's another fact to throw in the mix. If you have a blow out in the rear, for example, new tires up front, old / dry rotted tires on the rear, you have a blow out, how easy is it for the average drive to correct that? Blow out up front....you have steering of the front wheels. Easily corrected.

Another fun one:
$32.4 million. That's what Michelin recently had to pay out for a similar incident. Lady had an accident.....new tires were put on front. She put the blame on Michelin for not ensuring their dealers put the tires on the rear. Michelin is now repealing the lawsuit.

Holy old thread.

You don't make sense, you say if you blow out a front tire, easy to steer? I think not, way harder to steer and control. I would much rather have a rear tire blowout.

BS, some people will sue anyone for anything, damn money grabbers. :mad:

[Mario]

Holy old thread.

You don't make sense, you say if you blow out a front tire, easy to steer? I think not, way harder to steer and control. I would much rather have a rear tire blowout.

BS, some people will sue anyone for anything, damn money grabbers. :mad:

I'm bad at explaining.

Michelin has a few videos that I've watched on the subject.

3,000 acres, 12 tracks. Michelin might know what they're talking about.

[turbovanman]

Ok, still doesn't make sense to me, I've had a rear blowout and piece of cake to control. Haven't had a front blowout yet but I can't see how it would be easier to control.

[Mario]

Regardless of my posts, as stated before, new tires have to go on the rear.

I think the other thing is most people don't know how to react. Most people slam on their brakes or mess with the throttle in the event of rapid pressure loss/blowout.

[turbovanman]

I still stick with and will always put the best on the front.

[looneytuner]

My guess is he had the back end pass him in a panic stop and wants the best traction back there.

[tryingbe]

Most people can't handle oversteer. If you have good tire in the front and your car is RWD, it's very easy to oversteer. Same thing with FWD car, if you take that turn a little too fast.

Most people can handle understeer, you just slow it down.

It's like why the factory alignment is bad for cornering, because it's set for most people. I rotate and replace all 4 tires at once.

[Mario]

I like oversteer.

And no, this didn't happen to me because I rotate my tires and only buy sets of four...unless they're DR's.

[turbovanman]

Most people can't handle oversteer. If you have good tire in the front and your car is RWD, it's very easy to oversteer. Same thing with FWD car, if you take that turn a little too fast.

Most people can handle understeer, you just slow it down.

It's like why the factory alignment is bad for cornering, because it's set for most people. I rotate and replace all 4 tires at once.

Exactly, but I don't understand how plowing the front end thru a corner is any better then losing the rear?????


I like oversteer.

And no, this didn't happen to me because I rotate my tires and only buy sets of four...unless they're DR's.

Oversteer is fun, :amen:

[tryingbe]

Exactly, but I don't understand how plowing the front end thru a corner is any better then losing the rear?????


Simple. Recovering from a understeer is just basically to slow down, which is what the car already doing. Driver just have to hold the steering wheel and wait until it slow down enough by itself for the car to turn... or hit the curb, which ever comes first.

Recovering from an oversteer require the driver to do FAST counter steering, and for an average unsuspected driver, that's most likely not going to happen. The car most likely going to do an 180 or hit the curb.


One situation require no addition action from the driver, the other require additional fast reaction and fast response from the driver...
It's a no wonder why tires shop will insist to install new tires in the rear of the car, because it will work better for most people.

[Mario]

Thanks for the wording.

[tryingbe]

And for FWD, since there is no control other than braking on the rear wheels, if it starts sliding, there is really nothing much you can do other than sliding until the tires regain traction.

Oversteering in a FWD is what you generally do not want, since there is very little you can control. Counter steer might not even do much.

[turbovanman]

Simple. Recovering from a understeer is just basically to slow down, which is what the car already doing. Driver just have to hold the steering wheel and wait until it slow down enough by itself for the car to turn... or hit the curb, which ever comes first.

Recovering from an oversteer require the driver to do FAST counter steering, and for an average unsuspected driver, that's most likely not going to happen. The car most likely going to do an 180 or hit the curb.


One situation require no addition action from the driver, the other require additional fast reaction and fast response from the driver...
It's a no wonder why tires shop will insist to install new tires in the rear of the car, because it will work better for most people.


Yeah, I know about the counter steering, spent my youth learning how to do that, ;)

My only issue with understeer is you plow thru a corner and possibly head on into another car/bike.

I know, in a perfect world, we all know how to drive, ;)

[Vigo]

everybody thinks they can handle surprise oversteer until they find out they cant.

then its shoulda woulda coulda not wrecked my car if the good tires were on the back.

from a business liability standpoint: ALWAYS the rear.

[lametec]

I've gone off the road twice because of bad tires in the back on winter roads.. Of course, both times it was provoked by me horsing around. :D

I came to the conclusion that I'd rather suffer with less traction on the front than none on the back.

Don't get me wrong, I love oversteer as much as anyone, and you'll often find me fish tailing along snow covered roads just for the heck of it. But when the rear end decides it wants to come around no matter what, you'll be wishing you had the better tires in the back.

[Murphy]

In a car with the suspension setup to oversteer, if your old tires are bad enough that they can't keep your car going in a strait line, they they should not be on the car IMO. I mean if you HAD to choose, I guess the rear would be better, but i just think about how much easier its going to be to lock up your tires while braking or turning the wheel and just going straight....expecially in the rain.

I think the biggest deciding factor here is if the old tires, if used on the back, are good enough to keep the car in a straight line. Since manufacturers can't really make their decision from their standpoint, its safer for them to just say to put the new tires on the back.

[Murphy]

And for FWD, since there is no control other than braking on the rear wheels, if it starts sliding, there is really nothing much you can do other than sliding until the tires regain traction.

Oversteering in a FWD is what you generally do not want, since there is very little you can control. Counter steer might not even do much.

point the front tires in the direction you want to go and hit the gas, it will pull the back tires straight......at least this is what i have herd. I eprsonally do not have much experience with oversteer in a FWD car aside from some fun in the snow and taking a S turn too fast once

[turbovanman]

point the front tires in the direction you want to go and hit the gas, it will pull the back tires straight......at least this is what i have herd. I eprsonally do not have much experience with oversteer in a FWD car aside from some fun in the snow and taking a S turn too fast once

Yep, if its an open diff. I showed my buddy that in the snow, pin it around the corner and spin the tires and it hooks and pulls in if you start to slide. Takes a bit of getting used to. In my van with the OBX, if I do that, it just slides out.

[Vigo]

its really hard to train yourself to do that on real roads. ive tried and i dont consider myself 'trained' to do it reflexively at all.

but we dont have bad weather here in texas, so all my oversteer stuff is on dry roads and probly much higher speeds. never a good time to 'try something' when im going fast and failure means totalled. : /

[cordes]

I still stick with and will always put the best on the front.

Were you the kid in class that had the teacher, the text book, and all but the Lord himself telling you how it is/should be done but wouldn't listen to reason? Have you read any of the info there is about this?

At least some people can plead ignorance, but you choose to do things in a manner that flies in the face of all things empirical knowledge and common sense when it comes to tire position.

[turbovanman]

Were you the kid in class that had the teacher, the text book, and all but the Lord himself telling you how it is/should be done but wouldn't listen to reason? Have you read any of the info there is about this?

At least some people can plead ignorance, but you choose to do things in a manner that flies in the face of all things empirical knowledge and common sense when it comes to tire position.

I don't care what the pundits say, I have read the info, blah blah blah, if we all did as we were told all the time, my Minivan wouldn't be where it is today, we wouldn't have fast Minivan's, GLHS's, turbo-mopar vendors and the list goes on, :confused: :clap:

[cordes]

I don't care what the pundits say, I have read the info, blah blah blah, if we all did as we were told all the time, my Minivan wouldn't be where it is today, we wouldn't have fast Minivan's, GLHS's, turbo-mopar vendors and the list goes on, :confused: :clap:

Who ever said that more boost and efficiency shouldn't be done safely?

That is an apples to oranges argument if I have ever seen one. If anything the people who have their heads in the sand regarding the performance mods we do are the same people who are ignoring the FACT that the rear of the vehicle is the best place for new tires regardless of drive when less than 4 are purchased.

I all honesty I respect your right to do what ever you want with your vehicle, and I am glad that you like it. What I take exception to is your profession that your way is better when it goes against all current knowledge and standards of industry along with the practical experience of myself and many people I have spoken with while working in a tire shop through 7 years of college.