Ok I Found It,now What Is It ?

[87 charger]

So I thought my map was bad,but it never threw codes.I reset the timing again even though it looked right on. So after doing it all over again, it still done the same thing missing out. I decide to pull the vacuum from the map sensor and guess what ? It smoothed out and did not miss a lick ! So do I have to much vacuum going to the map or is the map a piece a junk ? I can tell you this much it is one or the other cause it sounds good with it unhooked at idle.

[supercrackerbox]

weird. Have you tried driving it with it unhooked?

[3nglenn]

When you pulled the vacuum line will it throw a code 13? Also check out
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/fault/code13.html
G.P.

[87 charger]

No not yet I don't want to cook something. That is the way my luck runs. I thought that maybe the restrictor is bad and is allowing to much vaccum into the sensor. I just don't want to waste money on a sensor if it is a vacuum problem.I am SO relieved to know I am not going crazy.I knew I had checked everything 10 times and could not find anything.So I went out on a limb and yanked the vac line off the sensor and it was running again ! OH and guess what the only codes I got was 12,22 and 55.Those being the battery and the coolant sensor because I reset the computer and timing.So I would have thought it should have threw a code with no vac to the map,but it didn't do it ? :eek:

[87 charger]

When you pulled the vacuum line will it throw a code 13? G.P.

Nope
Just 12 22 and 55

[3nglenn]

Do you have a spare LM you could try out. There's something really strange going on here....:confused: I assume the code 22 is from when you reset the timing? G.P.

[87 charger]

I sure don't it is a glhs stage 2 .I know where there is one in a junkyard,but you never know what condition it is in.

When it first acted up it shut off dead in the road while accelerating and would not start back up. If that helps ?

[3nglenn]

If you unplug the electrical plug to the MAP can you get it to throw a 14? Might want to look at the LM and check for signs of water/moisture. Is the plastic bag on it?

[87 charger]

It has sat in the garage forever. Although if it did get wet it would have been about 7 months ago when it was outside.It just sits in there all the time,usually cause it isn't running long enough to get it out hahaha :nod: :nod:

[87 charger]

[QUOTE=3nglenn]If you unplug the electrical plug to the MAP can you get it to throw a 14?
It has the map mounted to the logic module.If you hook the vac line back up to the map it dies instantly.

[3nglenn]

You mentioned there was another LM in a junkyard. If you could get it cheap enough it it might be worth trying out just to see if you can get the car to act normally (from a key-on/key-off diagnostic standpoint too). Is it a T2 computer (the one in the junkyard)?

[87 charger]

No it is a factory 87 shelby logic module. Of course it probably won't work come to think of it.If I have to buy a new one I will get the custom one I have been wanting to buy from FWD performance.You mise well get what you want the first time right ?

[3nglenn]

Yeah I suppose. Which LM were you looking into getting (from FWD)?

[LeGweg]

Looks like a bad map sensor to me...

[supercrackerbox]

Yeah, it'd almost have to be, but the car should run like crap if at all with it unplugged. Can you tell if the vacuum line is plugged at all?

[87 charger]

Well I am not sure now.I was looking into the stage 5 ,but I noticed that the 87 LM they list is for other 87 models.The Shelby chargers still ran the 86 LM set up. SO that means I can only use their stage 3 glhs LM.The big problem is that it only runs 15lbs of boost.I want to go higher than that. I have plans of +40s,3 bar map, adj fpr,3 inch exhaust,and when I get done with those upgrades I want to buy the new lonewolf intake that will be out soon.I also want a the hybrid header along with T3/T4 turbo. Do you have a LM recommendation ?
For my future plans ?

[3nglenn]

But I would think that a properly functioning LM would tell you that there are problems with the MAP, it being an extremely important part of the system. It seems like his LM doesn't even recognize it.

[87 charger]

Yeah, it'd almost have to be, but the car should run like crap if at all with it unplugged. Can you tell if the vacuum line is plugged at all?



Yes you can feel the vacuum in the line.

[87 charger]

But I would think that a properly functioning LM would tell you that there are problems with the MAP, it being an extremely important part of the system. It seems like his LM doesn't even recognize it.



It does see the other codes like the coolant sensor when you unplug it. If you unhook other sensors it sees them as well.I just dono why it won't read the map sensor being bad.

[turbovanman²]

Ok, you mention a restrictor in the MAP line, this is a NO NO, it requires full manifold vacuum.
2nd, get it warm and unplug the vac line, let it idle and rev it for a few minutes, it should put the check engine light on. If not, then disconnect the electrical connector on the MAP and wait, if no codes get set-the LM is bad.
3rd, even though the cal is set for 15psi, you can still MBC it over that, just watch the fuel using your guages.

[3nglenn]

Well I am not sure now.I was looking into the stage 5 ,but I noticed that the 87 LM they list is for other 87 models.The Shelby chargers still ran the 86 LM set up. SO that means I can only use their stage 3 glhs LM.The big problem is that it only runs 15lbs of boost.I want to go higher than that. I have plans of +40s,3 bar map, adj fpr,3 inch exhaust,and when I get done with those upgrades I want to buy the new lonewolf intake that will be out soon.I also want a the hybrid header along with T3/T4 turbo. Do you have a LM recommendation ?
For my future plans ?

Wow seems like you've done your homework! I've never bought an aftermarket LM so I'm useless there. 15# of boost would be a good starting point IMHO with all the other mods you have planned. I'd go with better intercooling,weight reduction,traction/suspention and HD clutch/Tranny mods before getting into the 18# range, so maybe you wouldn't need that extra boost, from a reliablity stand point. I've driven an SC with mods comparable to what you have planned and the thing was an absolute animal (14psi and 3 in. exhaust comes to mind right away). Again just my .02. Good luck and keep us posted! :thumb:

[87glhs232]

If you isolate the problem to the LM, you could take it apart and look at the 3 wires and their solder joints. Maybe just a short or funky solder. I'd check before shelling $$$ for new one.:)

[87 charger]

[QUOTE=turbovanman]Ok, you mention a restrictor in the MAP line, this is a NO NO, it requires full manifold vacuum.


REALLY !
This might be the problem. That restrictor has been in that line since I got the car.I will go out and hook it direct and see what happens. On my map sensor it screws to the LM there isn't a electrical plug on it.It uses the same LM as the 86 cars.Is there a different way to check that ?

[87 charger]

Wow seems like you've done your homework! I've never bought an aftermarket LM so I'm useless there. 15# of boost would be a good starting point IMHO with all the other mods you have planned. I'd go with better intercooling,weight reduction,traction/suspention and HD clutch/Tranny mods before getting into the 18# range, so maybe you wouldn't need that extra boost, from a reliablity stand point. I've driven an SC with mods comparable to what you have planned and the thing was an absolute animal (14psi and 3 in. exhaust comes to mind right away). Again just my .02. Good luck and keep us posted! :thumb:


I will be using the 568 transmission so it should hold up...I HOPE ! Anyway I got to beat these talons.I use to own one and I know how mean they can be.I don't want to beat them I want to slaughter them ! haha :eyebrows: :eyebrows:

[GLHNSLHT2]

Suggestion, get an LM from TU. What do the plugs look like? are they lean or rich? unplugging the map would give you more fuel at idle. DO NOT drive it. If you hit boost you'll go lean and cook a piston or worse. I'd go to the J-yard, find an 85-86 turbo car and snag the map off it and try a swap 1st. Might grab the LM off it as well and see if your car runs if it's an 86 you find. Heck if it's an 85 just grab the distributor setup and swap it in too. Your car would run with it if it is your LM.

[87 charger]

[QUOTE=turbovanman]Ok, you mention a restrictor in the MAP line, this is a NO NO, it requires full manifold vacuum.


REALLY !
This might be the problem. That restrictor has been in that line since I got the car.I will go out and hook it direct and see what happens. On my map sensor it screws to the LM there isn't a electrical plug on it.It uses the same LM as the 86 cars.Is there a different way to check that ?


I will correct myself after going outside and removing it I found it is a reducer not a restrictor.

[87 charger]

After removing that vacuum line and looking at the reducer (that I thought was a restrictor) and then putting the line back together and starting the car guess what ? It threw code 13. So now it knows the vacuum line is unhooked ??? Why did it not know that earlier ?

[3nglenn]

Awesome! Hows it running???

[87 charger]

HAHAHA this gets better.
I realized that once you remove the cover on the LM the plug you were talking about is under IT. I did not realize that at all. Anyway I unpluged the map and it then threw code 14. So now that It has realized no vacuum and it realized I unhooked its power does that mean its the MAP sensor ? I think we are closing in on this. :banaride:

[3nglenn]

On my map sensor it screws to the LM there isn't a electrical plug on it.It uses the same LM as the 86 cars.Is there a different way to check that ?[/QUOTE]

Ok I just ran out and checked the MAP out on an 86 LM I had. There is a plug (it's all starting to come back now...) that can be disconnected when you carefully draw the wires out of the LM. Just to let you know if you want to proceed with the code 14 test (MAP electrical) per Simons suggestion.

^ I type too slow...:o

Definitely time to reset that computer...?

[3nglenn]

Well for some strange reason all of a sudden the LM has recognized a vacuum loss (13) and an electrical loss (14)...

You know...it is Friday the 13th...:D

[87 charger]

Well I got a new map coming tomorrow at the parts store hopefully that is it.I plan on going with the 3 bar later,but for now I want to drive it around a bit and have some fun.If that does not fix it then I know for sure I need a new LM.I guess that is the more expensive way to figure it out,but like I said I really want to drive it.I will get real motivated to start upgrading everything :eyebrows: .Then I will want to build my beast.I did forget to mention yesterday that I might go with a neon head T2 set up. I do have one of those heads with cams and all just laying around.:thumb: I just don't know how tight a dohc 2.2 is in a L body.We might just find out. :nod: :nod:

[5sp. mini]

It might have been in limp mode or not warmed up to temp to start the o/2 sensor . remember it,s not heated and take longer to warm up. before you get a custom cal. or lm you must have the car running right frist. lotts of trouble if you throw HP parts and it don,t run right frist:amen: AL

[87 charger]

before you get a custom cal. or lm you must have the car running right frist. lotts of trouble if you throw HP parts and it don,t run right frist:amen: AL


Yup you got that right for sure !
I have been trying to find the problem for some time now and I finally got it down to 2 suspects. I wasn't going to drop any money into performance before I got the issues worked out of it. After that I plan on throwing money away on it. Hey the wife told me I couldn't sale it ! I would though if I had the chance just because I like daytonas.

[supercrackerbox]

Daytonas definately have their strong points, I've had my 86 as a daily driver for going on 9 years and my 88 has been a thorn-in-my-side project for a year now. But the Shelby Chargers are still wicked fun and I miss the hell out of driving my GLHS every single day. For pure performance and driving fun, most could argue that the Chargers have the Daytonas beat.

[5sp. mini]

ya but you need both or like me a daytona and a shadow/ part swap beter between them too. and a mini too. AL