Alternative to Pinks/Land Speed Racing

[guyd_15]

Has anyone thought about the alternatives to Pinks? I'm talking about Land Speed Racing. No cash Payouts like Pinks All Out, you don't lose your car like regular Pinks. And there seems to be no sandbagging.
I was browsing through a ECTA (East Coast Timing Association, the rules are the same as SCTA the people that run Bonneville), after looking through the rule book it looks like our cars would stand a good chance to set a record in the smaller displacement forced induction classes. Especially with an aerodynamic body style. It doesn't get the same TV coverage as Pinks, put it does get quite a bit of magazine coverage.
I mean I really like TD day at Cecil and I'm sure Turbopalooza is a blast. I just thought it might be a great alternative to supplement the few times we get together each year.
ECTA holds 5 weekend long events at Maxon Laurinburg, North Carolina at an abandon airstrip. 1 mile to build up speed, one timed mile and 1 mile shut down are.
There schedule is :

2007 Calendar

March 31 - April 1
May 19 -20
June 23-24
September 22-23
October 20-21


Event Schedule

Friday:
8:00 AM until 5:00 PM – Track setup and vehicle inspections
Saturday:
8:00 Vehicle inspections
9:00 AM – Drivers’ meeting & rookie orientation
9:30 AM until 6:00 PM – Racing
Sunday:
8:00 AM until 2:00 PM - Racing

They also have a street only class with a max speed of 135 mph (No cage required)

I just thought I'd throw this out as idea for debate. If there was enough response I'll go ahead and pay for a copy of the complete rulebook.

Guy

[TurboGLH]

That sounds like a lot of fun to me.

What's the current record in the class we would be running in? With some creative mixing of parts I could build a strong trans that allow us to run 161mph in 4th and 213mph in 5th with only a 6500 redline on stock sized tires. It wouldn't be tolerant of burnouts or any other such foolishness, but it would be comfortable behind upwards of 400whp.

[guyd_15]

Cliff,
I'll order a rule book Monday. The guys from Lambros (LRE) raced a couple years back (I'm confident the record they set was nearly 40 mph below that).
There aren't any burnouts involved because the cars are geared so high. The guy that heads up the organization lives about 80 miles away, If it wasn't my birthday tomorrow I'd cruise down. If I can pry a few from his hands I'll send you one.
It's good to see someone else interested, because I'm sure it'll have to be a team effort.
Guy

[mcsvt]

I'd be interested in watching. Don't think my Daytona is optimal, I do have a 3.50 FD, but it would be fun to be there.

[butchsuppe]

Go for it!!!!!!:thumb:

[Ondonti]

Ill say it the same as I did on td.com

This is not an alternative to PINKS.
It's an alternative to drag racing.

I hate when people make up fake titles to get attention.
Lame.

[TurboGLH]

Cliff,
I'll order a rule book Monday. The guys from Lambros (LRE) raced a couple years back (I'm confident the record they set was nearly 40 mph below that).
There aren't any burnouts involved because the cars are geared so high. The guy that heads up the organization lives about 80 miles away, If it wasn't my birthday tomorrow I'd cruise down. If I can pry a few from his hands I'll send you one.
It's good to see someone else interested, because I'm sure it'll have to be a team effort.
Guy

<----Chris, son of CLiff ;)

I'd love to help out. The point about the burnout was just a quick point about durability. It should be able to get us there gear wise, but it'll be weak in the diff area and won't tolerate any kind of abuse and be expected to live. If you can get an extra rule book and feel like sending one this way, I'd love to get a look at it. Drop me a PM if/when you get a copy.

-Chris


Ill say it the same as I did on td.com

This is not an alternative to PINKS.
It's an alternative to drag racing.

I hate when people make up fake titles to get attention.
Lame.

What's lame is thread crapping for no reason.

It seems that nobody bothers to read Frank's post welcoming them to the board and laying out the principals that it's based on. Take this quote for example: "Restore the polite non-dramatic ways of past Turbo Dodge car boards"

Your post serves no purpose other than to disparage the original posters choice in thread title, which is a childish and pointless action at best. If you have something relevant to the thread you'd like to post, or an alternate that you think would be a better area to concentrate our efforts please chime in. But if all you have is a negative wise-guy comment, please just keep it to yourself.

[WVRampage]

I also have the 3.50 final drive and would like to run just for the heck of it but I live in northern WV so thats a long haul for me to get there,if you guys make something and go try it out I may still have to come down and watch but it wouldbt be in my TD.

[TurboGLH]

Just a quick note for the people with 3.50 f/d's. Your gearing won't go more than 186mph at 6500 with stock sized tires, and that's not accounting for drag of any kind. So if your looking to set a record you'll have to run a much taller tire to get up to speed.

[WVRampage]

I think 186 in a rampage is a little to fast but hey it would be intersesting,I was just thinking it would be fun to see how fast it could go,that all im not looking to set a record,just fun.

[mcsvt]

186 would make me happy, lol. Don't think my car would push that anyway. I would only do it for fun if I did it. Or contribute to an actually competitive car.

[TurboGLH]

I've been doing some digging around, trying to find info that allows you to take HP, Gearing, Tire size, Drag Coefficient and frontal area into consideration to calculate the required HP to reach different speeds.

My initial ideal car was a shadow, but with some rough data it looks like 400whp with the 3.05 gear trans would only be able to achieve 177mph. A lighter/more aerodynamic platform might be better, maybe a rampage is a good idea.

[WVRampage]

It may take some work because of the aerodynamics of the rampage the rear gets real light at lets say 130+

[cordes]

The Chargers are supposedly about as good as ig gets aerodynamically. 024!

[WVRampage]

+1^ that sounds liek a good Idea and maby doing something with the front to help with air flow,maby like rad rides did with the cuda'

[cordes]

+1^ that sounds liek a good Idea and maby doing something with the front to help with air flow,maby like rad rides did with the cuda'

Since the car will not be accelerating at a violently rappid rate, and it will be on relativly flat ground going straight, I would drop it all the way down to keep the air out from underneath it, and call it a day except for perhaps some headlight covers and maybe filling some of the front facia.

[t3rse]

How about a later model tona, totally gutted, spoiler in the rear, lowered as far as possible with an srt motor, flatter torque curve and all mated to an older tranny with this ratio you speak of?

[r00tcause]

I've been doing some digging around, trying to find info that allows you to take HP, Gearing, Tire size, Drag Coefficient and frontal area into consideration to calculate the required HP to reach different speeds.

My initial ideal car was a shadow, but with some rough data it looks like 400whp with the 3.05 gear trans would only be able to achieve 177mph. A lighter/more aerodynamic platform might be better, maybe a rampage is a good idea.


P-bodies have terrible aero... The only car worth doing this in would be a Shelby Charger.... best weight and aero combo by far.

[altered7151]

You guys on the east coast should definitally go for it! I've been out to bonneville quite a few times and its something every gearhead should do. I'd really like to take my charger out there and at least run it to see what it'll do. Definitally sit down and take a good look at the rule book though, the safety requirements are pretty stringent. You're at a minimum going to need an 8-point cage and a fire system on the car. Land-Speed racing is the last holdout of the true gearheads, everyone is there just to see how fast they can go, no prize money, no trying to impress sponsor or get TV coverage. Just pure bad---- speed :thumb: Definitally take LOTS of pics and video if you guys get out there this year!

[TurboGLH]

P-bodies have terrible aero... The only car worth doing this in would be a Shelby Charger.... best weight and aero combo by far.

That's what I found out. .42 CD, with a 21.x foot frontal area. I was having trouble finding CD and frontal area on a charger/rampage but it seems that .24 is the magic number.

Just that change to a .24 vs a .42, with the same frontal area (until better data comes along) with the same gearing, tire size and redline would be able to hit 208mph on the same 400hp.

[TurboGLH]

How about a later model tona, totally gutted, spoiler in the rear, lowered as far as possible with an srt motor, flatter torque curve and all mated to an older tranny with this ratio you speak of?

This is all going to rely on donations from the people involved, so it'll be hard to come by a free srt motor. I figure a 2.4, built up with a set of 2.5 rods and pistons should get the job done as far as the motor goes. The trans is easy to build, hard to find the necessary core.

I think a Charger is the place to start, with the above mentioned 2.4 and the high gear trans. Best part is a charger is already setup for a 525, so a quick heim upgrade to the shifter ends and the new trans will bolt right in.

Chassis setup is a bit out of my area of expertise, so we'll need people who are knowledgeable in that area to join up and help out.

[BARRON]

A charger is even a better choice than a slammed and gutted J-body lebaron coupe?

Sorry if I am way off.. I am posting entirey ignorant to this whole land speed thing.

[rbryant]

Hmm Dempsey's page mentions that the shelby charger was: .37...

http://www.xmission.com/~dempsey/shelby/sheldod1.htm

I think it gets much better if you block off the headlight holes with covers (or at that speed sheet metal and bondo...

It is still pretty far off from what you need. Too bad the 024 omni (charger) apparently didn't represet its drag coefficient. Unless the shelby chin spoiler added that much to it...

-Rich

[contraption22]

There is no point in any of us trying. "ThePope" did close to 200mph in a near-stock Turbo1 Shelby Charger a few years ago. I'm sure that with an MP computer, a K&N drop-in panel filter, and some of those GTStyling headlight covers, he could break the sound barrier.

[Ondonti]

What's lame is thread crapping for no reason.

It seems that nobody bothers to read Frank's post welcoming them to the board and laying out the principals that it's based on. Take this quote for example: "Restore the polite non-dramatic ways of past Turbo Dodge car boards"

Your post serves no purpose other than to disparage the original posters choice in thread title, which is a childish and pointless action at best. If you have something relevant to the thread you'd like to post, or an alternate that you think would be a better area to concentrate our efforts please chime in. But if all you have is a negative wise-guy comment, please just keep it to yourself.
Would you like for me to post his reply to what I said on TD.com?
He wasnt dramatic about anything!

Its not appropriate to make fake titles to get attention on anyboard ive ever been on.

Landspeed racing is an alternative to drag racing in a heads up class.
My school has built electric capacitor drag cars, and also electric capacitor land speed cars (on the salt flats).
They seem to have decided to stick with the landspeed stuff recently, probably because landspeed racing has more variables that they are interested in overcoming.

If your interests are aerodynamics and gearing and power then thats where you are going to be happier.

To do things right, its definitly not cheap. If this racing league has stringent rules like bonneville then its still gonna be quite expensive.

[cordes]

There is no point in any of us trying. "ThePope" did close to 200mph in a near-stock Turbo1 Shelby Charger a few years ago. I'm sure that with an MP computer, a K&N drop-in panel filter, and some of those GTStyling headlight covers, he could break the sound barrier.

That is too funny. I really wish that I could have been around when he was at the penacle of his web of lies.

[guyd_15]

I picked up a couple of the rule books. I scanned a few pages. Some of the records appear pretty "soft" for example; Production Supercharged "PS" (Which also includes turbos) is 163.087 is held by a 1996 Mustang.

You can choose to run a higher class if you desire it's your choice.

When you step down to our engine classification "F" the F/BFSS record softens to 143.084 (and this class allows the use of N2o as a fuel additive in addition to turbo or supercharging btw.) And I know several people on this board run close to this in the quarter.

I've attached a couple of pages where I think most of our cars would fall in to. I'm confident most of us will be in the Street Category.

Speed/Roll Bar requirements
135-150 4pt
150-175 6pt
175 full cage

The ECTA has promoted the street classes recently, because as Ondonti said the high expense was making it impossible to compete. The street classes are they're way of getting back to the roots of LSR as opposed to those seeking all out land speed records. The fact that three mile course (actually 2miles if you include the shutdown area) does a lot to limit those 7 mile attempts at the sound barrier.

[guyd_15]

Rule book pages

[Directconnection]

That is too funny. I really wish that I could have been around when he was at the penacle of his web of lies.

You should still be able to buy the SDML archives on disc. There, you can see all the popsts from around 1997 to about 2003. You-know-who's are hilarious, but reading through Gus' posts are still very informative to this day. Reading Gary Donovan's trials and tribulations well before he ever ran even a 12 second run. Also sad reading it and wondering what happened to alot of the big names from that time and where ar they now.

Dennis Fuller sells the discs.

[Frank]

Ok people... lets get back on track... all things aside.

If someone were to do a land speed racing car, here is my suggestion....

Rampage

Shelby Charger front air dam

Chin spoiler for front downforce. Not much, but still needed
26" diameter tires are definently needed.

Need the charger air dam modified for smooth transition to tire area... many have done this... gives widebody look up front.

Definently go a 2.2L Trannybuster5 ;)

Of course cage. Rear window needs to be removed for sake of running the rear cage members to the rear subframe. Replace old window with plexy glass.

Then cover the bed with plexy glass, however leave tailgate down and provide a nice plexly glass transition to it. This will reduce a large cross sectional area. seen with our cars.

You will need to do some thin metal plates under the car to imporve areo and allow for a low pressure zone to be created under the rear of the car.


There you go.



Frank

[TurboGLH]

Amazing! Up to 3.0l and your allowed to use super/turbo chargers AND nitrous and the record is only 143mph. You could throw a 4pt cage into just about any 16v car and beat that record.

I was thinking that a charger/rampage would be a cool project to build, but it's a lot of work for one person. So I may put a cage in my srt instead and try for the F/BFSS record.

[Aries_Turbo]

im pretty sure the J-body Lebaron is more aerodynamic than the charger. I remember a discussion on TD or somewhere like that years ago and the thought behind that was that there must have been a reason that Chrysler chose the GTC over the Charger. I mean I have GTC now and when I walk past it with the k car right beside its obvious which has the better aero. the roofline of the GTC is sweet. add a "rattlesnake special" air dam and side skirts ;) or a A&A specialties (or whoever made it) body kit and youll be all set. :)

Shadow.. .yeah I remember Frank and i having that arguement about a P body being more aerodynamic than a K car which it isnt really. He also though it was alot shorter than a K car... yeah .3" hehe.

Chris, you are doing a 555/525 combo right? Ive never touched a 525 diff. is there any way of strengthening it?

Brian

[Whorse]

The trans is easy to build, hard to find the necessary core.
.

I have a busted 568 from my lebaron. It has a little piece missing off the top from the clutch blowing through, and a few bolts missing because I had to steal them for the 523 which had a few parts missing. Second gear is gone in it, so that would need to be fixed (think it's the synchros). If I can figure out a deal with work to ship it, or someone can receive it in Canada, I can donate that.

PM me if you're interested.

[TurboGLH]

im pretty sure the J-body Lebaron is more aerodynamic than the charger. I remember a discussion on TD or somewhere like that years ago and the thought behind that was that there must have been a reason that Chrysler chose the GTC over the Charger. I mean I have GTC now and when I walk past it with the k car right beside its obvious which has the better aero. the roofline of the GTC is sweet. add a "rattlesnake special" air dam and side skirts ;) or a A&A specialties (or whoever made it) body kit and youll be all set. :)

Shadow.. .yeah I remember Frank and i having that arguement about a P body being more aerodynamic than a K car which it isnt really. He also though it was alot shorter than a K car... yeah .3" hehe.

Chris, you are doing a 555/525 combo right? Ive never touched a 525 diff. is there any way of strengthening it?

Brian

I'd love to get my hands on some solid data about the different body styles. It's hard to verify the little info that's available right now.

Yes it'll be a 555/525, you can use a diff girdle to add some strength to the case. The mopar one is no longer available and the fwd requires a bit of work to use. I'll probably use a fwd one cut down to a size similar to the old mopar one. It won't be subject to a lot of stress in a short period of time, a reasonable launch should keep things together just fine.

It probably won't happen this year unless it's a team effort, Just not enough time/money for me to build a car just for this. At this point I plan on buying a 4pt roll bar/cage depending on what the rule book says (thanks to Guy for the copy he's sending me) and running my srt. It should be more than fast enough to set a new F/BGSS record.


I have a busted 568 from my lebaron. It has a little piece missing off the top from the clutch blowing through, and a few bolts missing because I had to steal them for the 523 which had a few parts missing. Second gear is gone in it, so that would need to be fixed (think it's the synchros). If I can figure out a deal with work to ship it, or someone can receive it in Canada, I can donate that.

PM me if you're interested.

Dropped you a PM.

[boostedblue]

:evil: :evil: Back in the day I am think MP used a Daytona body to go like 198mph or so.Some member with a old DC catalog (maybe 88, 89,90 or 91) could look it up, just my 2 cents,BB ps :new tech and all maybe 200 + ?? or aero body with a lower hp to slip in and set a few reconds :thumb: :nod: :thumb:

[DodgeZ]

Amazing! Up to 3.0l and your allowed to use super/turbo chargers AND nitrous and the record is only 143mph. You could throw a 4pt cage into just about any 16v car and beat that record.

I was thinking that a charger/rampage would be a cool project to build, but it's a lot of work for one person. So I may put a cage in my srt instead and try for the F/BFSS record.



Damn I beat that record on the way home from work yesterday and beat a mustang to boot :thumb:

[TurboGLH]

Damn I beat that record on the way home from work yesterday and beat a mustang to boot :thumb:

Guy Douglas was nice enough to send up a rule book, anything under 135mph is pretty easy, after that all the rules that would apply to a dedicated car apply to the street class. So you've got to run a cage, scatter shield, hood pins, window net, full fire suit, etc etc. It looks like it would be a decent amount of $$ just to run a street car, that's probably why the class record is so low and has stood for so long.

[moparman76_69]

I've really given this some thought and was wondering where to get a rule book from.