Removing 2 piece intake

[Holley]

Anyone got tips on getting the two awkward studs off (above where the turbo mounts on the exhaust manifold) when pulling a two piece intake?

I can't get the exhaust manifold studs out until its removed (they've never been removed, and will take some persuation), and I can't see how to get a socket or open ended spanner on the buggers ...

[8valves]

Honestly, in this case I usually just pull the head. I've never managed to get the intake off without removing the exhaust manifold first.

In my opinion it's worth the $100 in headgasket and bolts to only take a couple hours to get the job done instead of having zero blood circulation to my arms for a couple of ours as I struggle to take it off from below the car. That's just me though.

Aaron Miller

[GLHSKEN]

If it's a 2 piece, you might be able to separate the top and get something in there. Be patient with the exhaust manny.. lots of pb blaster. they are a -----.. But you can resort to POUNDING a 9mm on the 10 mm bolts and getting it that way. An impact really helps. Lots of pressure on it. Electric ones are like $65 at harbor freight. Best $65 I've ever spent.

[Holley]

Engine is out of the car, head gasket is fine and I don't want to upset it lol ... if I pull the head these two studs will still be as hard to get at, and I don't want to get into skimming the head or anything.

FWIW I've got the top of the 2-piece off, again makes no difference since there's solid metal between the runners.

Anywho, I guess I'll just keep persevering ... might be able to do something with thin nose pliers to get in there with :) Thanks for the feedback guys!

[turbovanman²]

You have to take the exhuast manifold off first.

[cordes]

You have to take the exhuast manifold off first.

+1. I have not been able to remove an intake without pulling the exh. manifold first. If the head is off the car it should not be too bad, but I would be careful as broken studs are a real downer.

[Holley]

lol, thats why I want to get the intake off, so I can get the exhaust off without snapping anything ... I'll be attacking it again after Christmas, so we'll see :)

Thanks for the extra feedback chaps!

[8valves]

If you're waiting on doing it just keep on soaking them with PB Blaster!!! :thumb:

A torch might not be a bad idea either if you're sure there's no excess fuel/oil laying around.

Aaron Miller

[Aries_Turbo]

Electric ones are like $65 at harbor freight. Best $65 I've ever spent.

no joke! ive had one of those for years. I did ruin two cords though cause i was dumb and kept picking it up my the cord lol. i trashed a gear internally too but i went on the site, found the part number and ordered it online. they shipped me just the part i wanted. HF rocks for stuff like that.

Brian

[Holley]

I'll be getting a compressor and basic air tools after Christmas anyway :)

The obstical here isn't so much the exhaust studs (I'm used to working on that kinda stuff), its just getting at the last couple of intake studs out ... I was thinking someone might just have a little trick to pop 'em out, lol.

[GLHNSLHT2]

To get the intake off you've got to take the exhaust off 1st.

[85lebaront2]

Your engine has intake studs? Mine has medium length bolts. I have found better results with Mopar rust penetrent than PB Blaster. I would just use a cold chisel and cut the exhaust nuts off if you are replacing things anyway. I know the two piece can be a royal PITA to work on, even in my K body getting at the bolts for the upper half in the car or in situ as British workshop manuals say borders on mission impossible.

[turbovanman²]

I found a neat alternative for bolts on the intake. VW engines, the ones with the intake and exhaust on the same side, use Allen headed bolts to secure the intake. There the same length as ours, I used them when I put my header on as I couldn't get a socket onto the bolts heads, best part, there usually free.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Allens are cool. But still will strip out the threads as you tighten them. I made studs for my intake and it is the best thing I've done to the motor. You twist them in by hand and slide the gasket on and then the intake. No having to hold things up to get a bolt started. And you can easily get another 20 inch/lbs on the torque without worrying about stripping them out. They should of been studded from the factory.

[Holley]

Thought you folks might be amused by this ... finally got to my workshop (snow stopped play over the hollidays) and attacked it. Both intake and exhaust had their factory hardware, and when I dropped the engine on it's face it was obvious the exhaust /had/ to come off first.

I had to use a dremel grinder wheel on some of the exhaust nuts to get them off ...

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/katejames/thevictims.jpg

Hammering a 9mm socket on worked on some of them too (thanks for the tip!) but it still took half the day! I've gotta buy a stud extractor now, lol.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/katejames/gotitoff.jpg

Now as for the intake bolts - I think the VW allen bolts would be fine, the intake doesn't get so hot so doesn't really /need/ studs. I'll be putting on all new hardware, so might as well go for all studs though ... this engine will be OD'ing on copperslip by the time it goes in the Charger, I don't want to do this again, lol.

[turbovanman²]

I haven't had an issue with the allen bolts and got them easily torqued to spec-you have to use a decent allen socket-cheapies are too soft.

That is one disgusting looking motor, gross, lol! :censored:

[cordes]

Thought you folks might be amused by this ... finally got to my workshop (snow stopped play over the hollidays) and attacked it. Both intake and exhaust had their factory hardware, and when I dropped the engine on it's face it was obvious the exhaust /had/ to come off first.

I had to use a dremel grinder wheel on some of the exhaust nuts to get them off ...

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/katejames/thevictims.jpg

Hammering a 9mm socket on worked on some of them too (thanks for the tip!) but it still took half the day! I've gotta buy a stud extractor now, lol.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/katejames/gotitoff.jpg

Now as for the intake bolts - I think the VW allen bolts would be fine, the intake doesn't get so hot so doesn't really /need/ studs. I'll be putting on all new hardware, so might as well go for all studs though ... this engine will be OD'ing on copperslip by the time it goes in the Charger, I don't want to do this again, lol.

Yeah, that is a little worse than what I have dealt with. Of course, I have used a little heat to free them up. The dremel is your friend though, thats for sure.

[Holley]

That is one disgusting looking motor, gross, lol! :censored:
lol, first time out of the car, and I wouldn't say it had been mistreated but it was parked in a field for a while (I keep finding leaves EVERYWHERE). Amazingly it's got good even compression, oil pressure, easy starter etc ... should look 100% better before going in the Charger :)

[Holley]

One quick question - what thread sizes are the exhaust studs & intake bolts? I'm going to try to find stainless ones, don't wanna mess about with these again :)

[turbovanman²]

They are 8x1.25mm.

[johnl]

James - you do not really need stainless nuts if you use 2400* anti-seize. Beware of the lower temp anti-seize, it does not work as well. Use it on the exhaust manifold studs/nuts and on all of the turbo and swing valve nuts and bolts. I had to use a Sawzall to disconnect the head pipe from the swing valve by cutting the spring bolts - I'll be using anti seize there too. BTW, you can use the exhaust manifold bolts at the head pipe/swing valve connection too - at 10 mm they are easier to get a wrench on - especially on a TU 3" SV.

[Holley]

Thanks for the info Simon & John - its much appreciated! :)

[GLHNSLHT2]

It's not a problem with the allen heads stripping out although they will with enough use. It's a problem with the threads coming out of the head when you're torquing them down. Aluminum is soft, has had 100's or thousands of heat cycles in it and when you're turning on the threads it has a good chance to pull the threads out. The only way around this is to use a Steel threaded insert (heli-coil) or use studs. Studs are so easy to make and they rock when putting the intake back on as you can just slide the gasket and intake right on. Also when you torque it down you have a much less chance of pulling out the threads in the head. I've got a picture of mine somewhere. I'll try to find it and get it upladed and post a link. If you've got allens in there that's fine, but next time it's off you might think about getting some studs for it.

[turbovanman²]

It's not a problem with the allen heads stripping out although they will with enough use. It's a problem with the threads coming out of the head when you're torquing them down. Aluminum is soft, has had 100's or thousands of heat cycles in it and when you're turning on the threads it has a good chance to pull the threads out. The only way around this is to use a Steel threaded insert (heli-coil) or use studs. Studs are so easy to make and they rock when putting the intake back on as you can just slide the gasket and intake right on. Also when you torque it down you have a much less chance of pulling out the threads in the head. I've got a picture of mine somewhere. I'll try to find it and get it upladed and post a link. If you've got allens in there that's fine, but next time it's off you might think about getting some studs for it.

Mine are all heli-coiled. I can't use studs, no clearance for the nuts, only the allen heads will work with my header.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Here's your pic
http://pnw-sdac.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album09&id=tonamotor13_001

[Holley]

I'm going to go with all stainless studs ... yes its overkill, but for a small outlay I won't have to go through this ordeal again ...

My new stud extractor worked like a charm today ... on two of the four stuck ones ... then one just wore smooth, and one sheared off. Got to drilling the buggers out, just got through the first one and the end of the bit snapped off in the head! After I'd finished swearing I figured that it would come out if I pulled the head ... unfortunately it must be wedged in there good as there's nothing moving in there.

I'm going to get the head skimmed and the valves re-seated while its off (and new lifters, valve guides and cam bearings, naturally), and as it turns out its just as well I pulled it, since the bores are mirror smooth so it wouldn't have lasted long anyhow!

So thats the saga so far ... guess I'll have to get the credit card warmed up now ...

[turbovanman²]

I'm going to go with all stainless studs ... yes its overkill, but for a small outlay I won't have to go through this ordeal again ...

My new stud extractor worked like a charm today ... on two of the four stuck ones ... then one just wore smooth, and one sheared off. Got to drilling the buggers out, just got through the first one and the end of the bit snapped off in the head! After I'd finished swearing I figured that it would come out if I pulled the head ... unfortunately it must be wedged in there good as there's nothing moving in there.

I'm going to get the head skimmed and the valves re-seated while its off (and new lifters, valve guides and cam bearings, naturally), and as it turns out its just as well I pulled it, since the bores are mirror smooth so it wouldn't have lasted long anyhow!

So thats the saga so far ... guess I'll have to get the credit card warmed up now ...

No cam bearings unless you have one of those very rare ones where 2 piece bearings were installed.

[Holley]

ok, well the seal thingies at the ends :)

I've already got many of the parts needed (terminal parts hoarder!) just gotta get to the end of this string of stuff breaking in my hands, lol.

[cordes]

I'm going to go with all stainless studs ... yes its overkill, but for a small outlay I won't have to go through this ordeal again ...

My new stud extractor worked like a charm today ... on two of the four stuck ones ... then one just wore smooth, and one sheared off. Got to drilling the buggers out, just got through the first one and the end of the bit snapped off in the head! After I'd finished swearing I figured that it would come out if I pulled the head ... unfortunately it must be wedged in there good as there's nothing moving in there.

I'm going to get the head skimmed and the valves re-seated while its off (and new lifters, valve guides and cam bearings, naturally), and as it turns out its just as well I pulled it, since the bores are mirror smooth so it wouldn't have lasted long anyhow!

So thats the saga so far ... guess I'll have to get the credit card warmed up now ...


Wow, that is a rough day. Hope the install goes better than that!

[Holley]

Wow, that is a rough day. Hope the install goes better than that!
Now that I've calmed down I'm kinda happy about it - I can build it up and know its good, 14psi without any worries :) (better add some +20s to the shopping list, lol)

Anywho, thanks for the comments, if the buildup goes to plan I'll do a 'rebuilding for dummies' article for the SDAC newsletter or something :)

[johnl]

It's not a problem with the allen heads stripping out although they will with enough use. It's a problem with the threads coming out of the head when you're torquing them down. Aluminum is soft, has had 100's or thousands of heat cycles in it and when you're turning on the threads it has a good chance to pull the threads out. The only way around this is to use a Steel threaded insert (heli-coil) or use studs. Studs are so easy to make and they rock when putting the intake back on as you can just slide the gasket and intake right on. Also when you torque it down you have a much less chance of pulling out the threads in the head. I've got a picture of mine somewhere. I'll try to find it and get it upladed and post a link. If you've got allens in there that's fine, but next time it's off you might think about getting some studs for it.


65 or 70mm long 8x1.25 6mm allen heads. That's the ticket. They are about 10 mm longer than the stock bolts - meaning the threads in the head are a lot less likely to strip. Be careful though as four of the holes go through to the head bolt holes and if you use the 70 mm ones - they may go too long and hit the head bolts. If that happens, you won't know about it until you try to take em out and then the threads, boogered by hitting the head bolt, will ruin the aluminum threads in the head as you screw the bolts out.

[cordes]

65 or 70mm long 8x1.25 6mm allen heads. That's the ticket. They are about 10 mm longer than the stock bolts - meaning the threads in the head are a lot less likely to strip. Be careful though as four of the holes go through to the head bolt holes and if you use the 70 mm ones - they may go too long and hit the head bolts. If that happens, you won't know about it until you try to take em out and then the threads, boogered by hitting the head bolt, will ruin the aluminum threads in the head as you screw the bolts out.


I did not think that the portion of the head that the head bolt passed through was threaded?

[85lebaront2]

It isn't but the end of the manifold bolt is. I definately second helicoils, I have stripped a number of 2.2L manifold bolt holes over the years. Next time mine is out, I am going to helicoil the whole row of them. James, bite the bullet and order the MP head gasket, if nothing else POMOCO here (actually Hampton) sells on-line and will ship to the mother country. http://www.pomoco.com will get to them. I have several friends over there through the LeBaron group who have had good luck with them.

[cordes]

It isn't but the end of the manifold bolt is. I definately second helicoils, I have stripped a number of 2.2L manifold bolt holes over the years. Next time mine is out, I am going to helicoil the whole row of them. James, bite the bullet and order the MP head gasket, if nothing else POMOCO here (actually Hampton) sells on-line and will ship to the mother country. http://www.pomoco.com will get to them. I have several friends over there through the LeBaron group who have had good luck with them.

Ok, Thanks for clarifying.