driving without the swaybar?

[Murphy]

I was doing ym exhaust today on my shelby Z, and figured while the car was in the air I would replace the inner swaybar bushings since I had a set laying around. I pulled off the old ones and realissed that they are different then the ones I have....I need the D style ones. I am going to send away for some PB bushings tomoro, but in the meantime I was wondering how driving without a swaybar will effect the rest of the suspension.

[WVRampage]

I did it but it doesnt handle well.

[Murphy]

i just put the battery in my spirit, guess i'll drive that till the bushings come in

[turbovanman]

Won't damage anything except it will pitch like a mofo into corners.

[GLHNSLHT2]

yeah the front will roll more into corners and the butt will want to slide :) But in just normal driving you'll be fine. I drove that way for a long time with no ill-effects while trying to get my aftermarket sway bar situation figured out.

[looneytuner]

Bunch of sissies!!!!!!:D
Anybody that owned a Pinto drove without swaybars!!!!!
That was one of the first changes to mine. My dd is an Olds Cutlass Supreme and it has a baby buggy spring in back. Kind of like an ANTI swaybar setup.
It won't be near as much fun as a Renault Dauphine on 2 wheels at 50 mph in a curve.:eyebrows:

[Garret]

do-able but scary if you beat on it... cept traction is slightly better haha

[JDAWG]

Bunch of sissies!!!!!!:D
Anybody that owned a Pinto drove without swaybars!!!!!
That was one of the first changes to mine. My dd is an Olds Cutlass Supreme and it has a baby buggy spring in back. Kind of like an ANTI swaybar setup.
It won't be near as much fun as a Renault Dauphine on 2 wheels at 50 mph in a curve.:eyebrows:

that rear suspension is set up alot like the corvettes, i used to have one. I lowered mine by taking the spring out and using one main leaf from a fullsize chevy spring pack

[Mopar_Nutz]

I (and many others) drive a lifted 4x4 with no swaybars. In comparrison, you barely notice a difference in these cars. Just don't rip thru corners expecting it to accept that and you'll be fine :)

[MiniMopar]

I drove my Daytona without a swaybar by accident for a bit. It drove fine, just didn't corner very well.

[Reaper1]

Do NOT try to drive it hard without a front sway bar. The rear end is going to be much looser and in certain low traction situations you'll find yourself in the weeds...

[Garret]

just like driving with a solid welded rear axle eh Buzzsaw?

[Reaper1]

Oh SH*T!!! There's somebody out there that still remembers that!!:rolleyes: LMAO...I can't get away from that stigma!:ballchain: Thanks for bringing that old wound back up! I needed a good laugh! LOL...:lol:

[Garret]

Buzzsaw you'll never escape that, that was the first story I read on the SDML that made me actually laugh out loud, you're just lucky they archives are down otherwise I would've posted the story :)

[Reaper1]

ROTFLMAO!!! I'd actually like to see it again! Post it up if you can find it! :thumb:

[Garret]

maybe you should tell the story as best as you can remember ;) I just remember the gist of the story and your wonderful removal of that guy's flower bed

[JDAWG]

my 95 s15 has no shocks or swaybar on the whole truck, drive that once, it corners like a greyhound bus

[Reaper1]

OKOK...her ya go!

So a few years back I decided to compeltely revamp my suspension on my Daytona to make it better for autocrossing. I did everything I knew of at that time(minus the strut tower bar that I now have). Eibach springs, Konis all around, all new strut hardware, a 1991 K-frame with new Moog bushings and ball joins in the A-arms(which had been repainted), a new 1.25" Poly-bushings sway bar(not installed at the time of this story due to it being on backorder at that time, and the subject of this story), a fully boxed rear axle that was completely repainted ect., full 11" brakes(1990 vintage) with new calipers(powdercoated silver), stainless brake lines, and Porterfield pads. I *think* that's all, but I can't remember.:confused:

This car was my daily ride and anything I did to it had to be done quickly and propperly so I could still get to work. A friend of mine had a shop at that time and I rented it from him for a weekend(I actually slept there and all) so I could do this complete rebuild. He was SUPPOSED to help me, but that didn't happen.:mad::censored::banghead: I did the complete job myself. :faint:

At any rate, after minimal sleep for two nights in a row(I started friday night), and hard wrenching the whole time, I finally got to sit the car on the ground and move it under its own power Sunday afternoon. After a quick ride down the road to seat the brake pads and to make sure everything seemed to work, my buddy asked for a ride. Sure...what's the harm in that?

So we go down the road. the speed limit is 35mph, and I was doing about 35-40. My buddy asks how it handles and I reply that I didn't know as I hadn't tried any corners yet(keep in mind the car wasn't really aligned yet either). So he asks me to saw the wheel back and forth a little to get a feeling for body roll. I comply(and not all jerky like he tells it, but enough to induce body roll on a normal car), but as I did the tail end decided it didn't like not having a change in scenary and started to step out. :wow1: I corrected, but the car snapped the other direction. It did this two more times until I was finally able to get it straight enough to really apply the brakes to slow up down. Well...I was going straight, but not realative to the road...I was able to slow down quite a bit, but not before I hit a gravel driveway that then lead me to some poor person's garden that was mostly deep mulch. As I came to rest the car had slightly pushed a small shrub over to an angle of about 30* with its nose(hence my "Buzzsaw nickname:ballchain: ). I tried to back out of the garden, but the car was framed out. I had to have my buddy go back down to the shop to get his truck to tow my car out. A neighbor came out to see if everybody was OK. I replied yes, but that I could use a shovle to help get my car out and to repair the damage to the garden. After we pulled the car out, I then filled in my ruts and replaced the shrub to its former upright position. After I got the car back to the shop it took about 45 minutes to get all of the d@mn mulch out of the various places it can get.

After all of this I determined it was the lack of a front sway bar, and too stiff of a rear axle due to it being boxed in that caused the unpredictable snap oversteer in quick transition situations(this evalutation was based on later experiences at the auto-x where it took a good bit of tuning to get the rear end nailed down enough to be somewhat predicatable). I took the car out to an empty parking lot to test it for "roadworthiness" I never did get it to oversteer there, but I had a scare a couple of times of some offcamber turns and in the rain. After the installation of the front sway bar the car was MUCH better.:rockon:

The lesson here? DO NOT drive a car that has no front sway bar on the street, and DO NOT box the rear axle as the results are unpredictable and can be hard to tune with stock, or even high performance stock replacement parts. I will be taking that rear axle off the car and replacing it with the stock axle off the car with an aftermarket 1.125" bolt-on rear sway bar. i beleive that set-up will be much more tunable and more balanced than my current set-up.

Not like any of that matters right now as the car has been sitting on jackstands in my back yard for 3 years :(:censored:

So there ya go...the history of "Buzzsaw"

[Garret]

I seem to remember the story with you fleeing the scene... LOL

[Reaper1]

No..I couldn't "flee" the scene...the car was framed out in the d@mn mulch! I tried to get it out by throwing it in reverse, but all I succeeded in doing was throwing mulch all in the front of the car.

In the end the garden looked pretty good, the shrub lived, the car wasn't damaged, and I learned an important lesson!

[Garret]

lol... I think you flee'd and just changed the story ;)

[JDAWG]

No..I couldn't "flee" the scene...the car was framed out in the d@mn mulch! I tried to get it out by throwing it in reverse, but all I succeeded in doing was throwing mulch all in the front of the car.

In the end the garden looked pretty good, the shrub lived, the car wasn't damaged, and I learned an important lesson!

dude you are my hero, trust me my stories are much worse and more destructable.

[lansingsportsrage]

At my circle track where we race FWD 4-Cylinders, there are a group of guys who swear getting rid of the front sway bar is the fast way around.

They say that while you get more body roll, the left front tire actually stays on the ground better and you'll get more forward bite coming off the turns.

Any thoughts ?

[JDAWG]

At my circle track where we race FWD 4-Cylinders, there are a group of guys who swear getting rid of the front sway bar is the fast way around.

They say that while you get more body roll, the left front tire actually stays on the ground better and you'll get more forward bite coming off the turns.

Any thoughts ?


thats retarded redneck stuff, just go to an alignment shop and dial in a little bit of negative camber.

[WVRampage]

On a cicle dirt track it might work but the real questiong how did they do when racing with out it.

[Reaper1]

I have a buddy that also circle track races a ministock FWD MOPAR. They also remove the front sway bar for the reasons stated above. It allows the suspension to do it's job on each side independantly, so the other side being bounced all around isn't going to affect the side that isn't. You also have to remember that(at least in my buddy's case) they are running 550lb/in springs in the front with Koni's adjusted to full firm....VERY stiff. In this case a sway bar would be superfluous anyways. The rest of the car is also build around the idea of the car being run this way....beleive me, a sway bar would only make matters worse. The suspension is nowhere near in its stock configuration...

[deuce dodge]

strange

the "motorxploders" omni glh has no front sway bar..was set up for ice racing and handles great.....runs 13.9 e.t.......wonder why it feels so tight on corners.......

strange

deuce

[22mopar]

thats retarded redneck stuff, just go to an alignment shop and dial in a little bit of negative camber.

AMEN, but if I woulda said that you'd be on me for name calling, etc.


on me circle track car, I ran 300# front springs with a light aftermarket bar and 400# rr sprin 250# lr and an aftermarket heavy rear bar. also had most wins in the division, with this setup

[Reaper1]

It might be "retarded redneck stuff", but it sure as hell works down here in Florida! It's kinda funny to see a car that only cost about $3000 total outrun other cars that have more than that in just the engine! There are a lot of racers' tricks that have been called "retarded redneck stuff" and in the end has proven to be a viable solution. While "just do such and such" might seem like a great idea, it might not be within the rules, or even capable. In my friend's case they were running as much negative camber on the RF as possible(you can only do so much within the rules!). Certain "tweaks" were made to the suspension so it would turn easier. There were a lot of "lopsided" things on that car that I would NEVER suggest doing on a street car. Hell...one side had a solid disc brake on it while the other was vented! It was all in the name of putting the weight where it needed to be and making the most out of what you had. In the end the car ran circles(literally) around its competition. So, before we go dismissing an off-beat idea or technique(especially in a highly specialized case), make sure we know WHY it was done and all of the effects it has.

[22mopar]

Wow, $3000 into a ministock, Ya'll must be rich. here's my ministock and I had less than a grand into building it including engine, trans, suspension, cage, seat, fuel cell. lexan windshield, motor. the only other car that could keep close was an escort with a 2.0 pinto engine. the inferior pinto and mustang was no match for us... in one season, there was only 2 RWD guys that won otherwise it was all FWD, my charger, the escort, a Saab and a couple VW's. the guy that built the escort now works on the 17 Nextel cup car. he's the front tire changer on sunday's and does all the shock and chassis stuff during the week. BTW the escort and I had pretty similar chassis setups.. probably why we won most everything.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sohc427ford/album?.dir=e50a&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

BTW I sold the car turn key race ready for $1200 with 2 complete turbo shelby's, lots of motors, and over a dozen transmissions,

[Reaper1]

They get nuts with it down here! There's guys that run engines that cost over $5000 in cars that are damn near tube frame. I don't know all the ins/outs, but I can tell you it gets downright nasty. The driver of my buddy's car got intentionally T-boned after a race one time hard enough to flip the car because the other dude got so pissed that he lost! The Ford and Honda guys are the ones that are psending the major cake down here. Mostly Fords. They get SO pissed when they get beat by such a "low budget" car. I suppose that depends on what you call low budget though...

As I said before...their car wasn't just a thrown together beater with a roll cage and a header....the entire car was built around the purpose of going very fast on dirt in a cicle. Not a thing on the suspension was in its stock configuration, be it lighter, moved, adjusted, tweaked, swapped, ect. Using a sway bar lifted the inside wheel when turning. They were using a welded diff, so this caused a number of issues from broken axles to slower times due to only one wheel pulling the car. Like I said, using a sway bar in this case was superfluous and not needed.

Also, tell some of the auto-x guys that taking off the front sway bar so that they get more rotation around tight corners is a redneck solution...it's called chassis set-up.....

[22mopar]

so you car calling my car I linked a beater with a roll cage and header?

[Reaper1]

No, just squashing doubts from other people about the design of the car. I wasn't refferencing anybody's car.

[Boogieman142]

i've been driving mine for the past few months without any swaybar on the front.

[deuce dodge]

who ya calling a red neck :)

LOL...hey i might just be a redneck.....

deuce

[Capt'n Dave]

Kinda reminded me of the time i put my 67 opel kadet over a cliff and landed in a tree top still running,showing off to a couple buddys how to take a 25mph curve at 55mph,done it lots of time,that day the sun had not melted all the snow off due to shade and it refroze,the passenger side was 40 feet to the ground,my side was 6 ft away,I chose that side to exit the car,they throwed a chain around the rear axel dragged the car back up the cliff onto the road and i drove it to the house,changed my underware:eyebrows: And went back out driving,oh to be young and 18 again,Ha!:amen: