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2.216VTurbo
11-10-2006, 07:54 PM
:mad:

So I spent nearly a year upgrading multiple aspects of the TC, fully ported/reworked cylinder head with RDIperformance oversize valves/dual springs/guides/seals, reworked turbo, new hybrid trans with a OBX, Clutchnet clutch ETC. The thing has got to burn cleaner than three years ago when it barely passed CA smog tests right?:o Failed the test the other day!

15MPH test HC measured 66 (max 116) CO meas .69 (max .74)
NO meas 1606 (max 791) RPMS in test 1589

25 MPH test HC meas 55 (max 91) CO meas .67 (max .62)
NO meas 1214 (max 730) RPMS in test 1795

So it cleans up a bit at higher RPMS, I don't know what that means exactly but the HC were way within limits of both tests so that tells me (smog techs correct me if I'm wrong) that it's not a rich/unburned fuel condition... The NOX just means the cat is weak right??? It has less than 5K miles on it but it was a cheapo unit like three years ago and it's seen a lot of 17 PSI boost rips on it .

So I read about these new bad boy MagnaFlow OBD II cats that have like twice the amount of platinum/rhodium and other catlyzing elements in them and will clean up just about anything (according to the Turbo or Sport Compact Car mag guys, can't remember which) It ought to for $185.!:o Thanks to California smog laws I almost couldn't even buy the thing:confused: The first two shops I called wouldn't sell it to me! Bastids! The next shop wanted $300. for the cat and $350. installed. Uh, yeah, I'll get back to those guys right away. Anyway the next shop ( a local Mustang tuner called GRC Performance) didn't give me any trouble about what car I was going to put it on and the price of $185. was reasonable now compared to the others. They didn't have a 3" center in/out in stock but I talked the owners wife into letting me drive over to MagnaFlow and pick it up as they are only about 5 miles away from me. I almost panicked and confessed the whole turbo Dodge story when I got to the will call window and the guy asked me what kind of car it was for:blah: :censored: Then I regained a bit and just said "I don't know man, I'm just the parts driver for the shop"

I checked it out when I got home, 409 stainless steel body, 316 mirror polished heat shield, and Mario Freekin Andretti's picture right on the box. Now I know he wouldn't just let them put his picture on it just because the paid him right??? It must be good... I'll do some welding a little later after a few silver bullets and bolt it on. This car better get past the sniffer test with flying colors now!

tryingbe
11-10-2006, 08:05 PM
Walker makes good cleaning cat, not sure if which one is 3inch though.

Forget catco cat in CA, they will make you fail.

turbovanmanČ
11-10-2006, 08:21 PM
First off, Celebs are paid to endorse products, just because Mario's name is on the box doesn't mean sh*t, it means Magnaflow paid him tons of money.

Now, your readings indicate that your cat is dead or you have an exhaust leak before the cat.

.5-.7 CO is normal closed loop operation if this really is the readings before the cat then indeed, your cat is tired. 3 years of boosting will kill it for sure. The NOx needs no air precat so thats why I ask about ex leaks, if there is, the NOx part won't work and the readings skyrocket. Also, if the engine is lean, NOx shoots up but based on your readings, its not lean. So, if you have no leaks, a cat will fix it.

Walker makes this cat, is a HD unit which I use on Rotaries. You think your hard on cats-Precat readings-1000 HC, yes 1000 HC's, 3-4% CO, thats enough to burn out your eye sockets and thats at CRUISE, :wow1: I put this cat on it and the results were---------------------------ZERO's, yep, zero's, :nod:

These are large body cats called Ultra Converters, there 18" total length.

15066-2 1/4
15067-2 1/2
15068-3 inch

2.216VTurbo
11-11-2006, 02:23 AM
OK, thanks for the replies guys but I have to ask, I've already spent more on this cat than we all have at some time to PURCHASE a whole TD car, why are you suggesting that I buy a different cat??? Sheesh, this a TD board not a Bently forum:confused: Maybe that 12 pack is clouding my thinking:confused:

Here is the cat after welding the flanges on it tonight, bolt up will have to wait until morning...

turbovanmanČ
11-11-2006, 03:12 AM
OK, thanks for the replies guys but I have to ask, I've already spent more on this cat than we all have at some time to PURCHASE a whole TD car, why are you suggesting that I buy a different cat??? Sheesh, this a TD board not a Bently forum:confused: Maybe that 12 pack is clouding my thinking:confused:

Here is the cat after welding the flanges on it tonight, bolt up will have to wait until morning...

I wasn't suggesting another cat nor was tryingbe, he just mentioned Walker so I posted up my results as thats all I use. If that cat happens not to work, the Walker will work. MAKE SURE when your done, you have no exhaust leaks in front of the cat, not even a pin hole.

You also said it has to be good as Mario is on the box and I called BS, :p

mock_glh
11-11-2006, 03:44 AM
Alan, NOx emissions are a product of lean combustion. The headwork you've done has most likely made it leaner. My old '88 Daytona Shelby recently failed the NOx part of the test. Some time ago I had installed a Mitsu turbo on it to improve the low speed response. After failing the first test I figured that an EGR system would cure the problem (that's what they're for) so I installed one. Second test failed again. So I put on my thinking cap (remember those?) and compared this setup with my Omni, which passes easily and came up with this theory. A car with a large turbo generates little boost in the1500-2500 RPM range. A small turbo, on the other hand, spools up enough pressure at lower speeds that the throttle needs less opening to flow the same amount of air. Less opening means lower TPS voltage and thus a leaner mixture. The stock T2 cal caused it to run too lean at testing speeds. So I plugged in a T1 computer and GUESS WHAT! It passed easily! The T1 cal has more fuel at the MAP values where it is tested. I've learned a few things with D-cal.

Boyd

2.216VTurbo
11-11-2006, 11:17 AM
Boyd,

I considered the lean misfire thing for like a half a second the other day, then dismissed it:o I think you are right. I have a set of +20's in there to help with extra fueling, so to compensate for them I dropped the pressure from 60 PSI static (this is where the Dawes A/F says the WOT mixture is right) to 45 PSI static to 'adjust' for them, from what you are saying, I went too far:( I'll put it to 50 static with the new cat then drive right over to the smog cert station... then cross my fingers and say a few hail Mary's for good measure:amen:

turbovanmanČ
11-11-2006, 12:54 PM
Dude, your already have good CO, and your not lean. If you richen it up, you'll risk failing on CO.

ShelbyMotorsports
11-11-2006, 01:17 PM
Alan

Boyd is correct on egr's and NOX. Back in the late 1960's California was probably the first state that required cars to be retrofitted with NOX kits which comprised of the ol' spacer under the carb where they could then bolt on an egr valve.

Don't forget that if your Masi fails two times it then gets flagged as a gross polluter and you will be forced to go to a state run smog test/inspection center from then on including future smog tests so you may want to ask for that pre-test which doesn't go against your car if it fails.

If you decide to do a pre-test it's a must that you tell the technician a dozen or so times that you want a pre-test and even after that it helps to get as close as you can to his computer screen to make sure he clicks on the pre-test box because even though you tell him you want a pre-test if he doesn't check the right box on his screen it goes in as a normal smog test and can not be undone.

Not sure about the Maserati TC but Walker was (still is?) the oem supplier of cats to Chrysler in the 1980's.

Steve

butchsuppe
11-11-2006, 11:59 PM
Dude, your already have good CO, and your not lean. If you richen it up, you'll risk failing on CO.

CO isn,t right it failed the 25 MPH test, Allan talk to Turbo Tony before next test.

turbovanmanČ
11-12-2006, 02:43 AM
CO isn,t right it failed the 25 MPH test, Allan talk to Turbo Tony before next test.

I do this for a living, as I have said, if the cat isn't working, which I doubt it is or its weak, then that CO is the perfect reading to light off a good cat. End of story.

mech1nxh
11-12-2006, 03:34 AM
Boyd,

I considered the lean misfire thing for like a half a second the other day, then dismissed it:o I think you are right. I have a set of +20's in there to help with extra fueling, so to compensate for them I dropped the pressure from 60 PSI static (this is where the Dawes A/F says the WOT mixture is right) to 45 PSI static to 'adjust' for them, from what you are saying, I went too far:( I'll put it to 50 static with the new cat then drive right over to the smog cert station... then cross my fingers and say a few hail Mary's for good measure:amen:

Alan...could you post the CO2 and O2 #'s please??..thx

2.216VTurbo
11-12-2006, 08:31 AM
I do this for a living, as I have said, if the cat isn't working, which I doubt it is or its weak, then that CO is the perfect reading to light off a good cat. End of story.

I'm listening to what you are saying Simon, I don't really know much about how the values work to gether (or against eachother):o

%CO2 14.7 both speeds %O2 0.0 both speeds

Does the lack of any 02 mean something:confused:

turbovanmanČ
11-12-2006, 03:43 PM
I'm listening to what you are saying Simon, I don't really know much about how the values work to gether (or against eachother):o

%CO2 14.7 both speeds %O2 0.0 both speeds

Does the lack of any 02 mean something:confused:


CO2 is about right, the O2 should show some but honestly, I am brain farting about the Ox. It should show some due to the cat when it does its job, it produces H20.

I agree though, after its done, take it to a shop and have them sniff it to make sure its ok. Nothing worse than guessing and going to the smog shop with your fingers and toes crossed, :lol:

2.216VTurbo
11-12-2006, 10:53 PM
Hmm, $39. for the pretest or take the chance of failing twice and achieving CA gross polutor status:eek: I was hoping to get the dang smog test done with so I can put in the nice custom I/C:eyebrows:

Clay
11-13-2006, 10:58 AM
NOx is created by high heat, which is typically related to a lean mixture, or high compression.

Why no O2? well, you will typically have some O2 left after combustion, and then the cat will use some to oxidize the excess hydrocarbons.

I say the cat is the right way to go. You could richen the mixture up, but then your HC will probalby be over the limit, as well as your CO. The cat will reduce NOx emissions if its working properly, so that would be my guess.

mpgmike
11-13-2006, 12:41 PM
The fact that there is no O2 left says that richening the mixture is going the wrong way. HC and/or CO will go up. Advancing the timing about 2* might get your NOx in order, and actually leaning out the mixture a tad (45# to 42# fuel Psi) should cure your CO blues. I doubt the new cat will improve things much unless you get more O2 into the exhaust. The best cat in the world can't burn the HC & CO without oxygen. That's why I suggest leaning it out slightly.

Mike

turbovanmanČ
11-13-2006, 01:56 PM
Advancing the timing will raise NOx, retarding it lowers NOx. If you have a car that fails NOx and you have a vacuum advance, disconnect it and most times, you will now pass. Not that I have ever done that, ;)