Aftermarket management systems

[Dave]

I know this has been discussed but the search button hates me.

I've read up a lot on systems such as MS and SDS. MS is $300-some dollars, SDS is roughly $800. I suppose the only difference is the SDS is a complete kit. MS you have to wire, solder, and buy a laptop.

I can see it already, I'm buying another TM. I want to do it right this time. My setup I had on the Spirit had the right parts but lacked essentials. So to go further, I need to tune this setup.

Any reccomendations for a management system? I want something that can data log info, record runs, give me the ability to change fuel and spark advance/retard per every 250 RPMs. SDS does this, right? I remember I spoke with Wallace a tad on SDS and he spoke highly of it.

-Bryan

[cordes]

Stock electronics will have all the bells and whistles of the cheaper aftermarket stuff very soon from what I have seen.

[Speedeuphoria]

SDS is more like $1500 and it can datalog from a wideband which you have to buy extra and then it doesn't datalog boost levels only A/F and rpm.

[Speedeuphoria]

just get a car, a 2.4 motor, MS to run it and mod it

or just find a 96 caravan that comes factory w/ a 2.4 and a 3spd auto, add srt internals, a turbo and exhaust and MS and go

[Dave]

On SDS's website, they say the EM-4 D is $800. :confused:

Anyways, what can anyone tell me about Cindy's trim-cals? I'll call her tomorrow and find out more, but can anyone speak with experience?

[Speedeuphoria]

If you read the D only controls fuel

The E is for distributors, controls fuel and spark,but you need a MSD 6A box also($1057 + MSD)

the F runs spark and fuel distributor less for $1311(comes w/ coil packs)

If you can get some help MS is the way to go. I would run it if I were to build another. Steve Lockett is using it on the black car and it runs 10's

[GLHS592]

If you're like me and tired of screwing with calibrations that don't work as advertised, then SDS is for you. I wish I had all that money back I spent on a cal and bought the SDS first. I bought mine through Glenn Smith. His business (Dominion Auto) is listed in their list of dealers.

[Una]

MS can do ANYTHING you want it to. It's open source and there are several different versions of the software for it, depending on what exactly you need it to do. The last time I messed with Megasquirt I used a Pentium 75 laptop to tune the thing.. The laptop was FREE and had no problem doing the job. Nowadays you can pick up a Pentium-300 type laptop on Ebay fully working with OS and all for less than $100, probably as low as $50.. So it's really not a big deal needing a laptop.

[mech1nxh]

I have also researched all the above mentioned systems...

however I want to run a mass air flow system, and so far
none of those systems will support that function...

the hunt continues....

[Dave]

I have also researched all the above mentioned systems...

however I want to run a mass air flow system, and so far
none of those systems will support that function...

the hunt continues....

Why would you want a MAF?

[Dave]

And I just got off the phone with Cindy. She said the trim cal allows fuel control, spark advance/retard, and boost control. Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to tune spark or fuel per a certain RPM. It's progressive. Hmm... is this a suitable solution to tuning??

[GLHS592]

Why would you want a MAF?

That's what I'm wondering. I know people that have thrown their MAF in the trash with forced induction.

[BadAssPerformance]

I love the FAST system on my Z from Forward Motion. More costly than some fo the other SA systems but it kicks ---. :thumb:

Also, no need for a MAF on a turbo 4 banger.

[glhs727]

The SDS system is great, and will cost about $1500 to get all the peices needed for a td. But for the price one of the best standalones for the price available. The trimcal is also very nice, not as tuneable as the SDS, but cheaper, and a step above single calibrations plus you get a real time data display box. Having said all that, Bryan, you should not be thinking about any of these. What you need to do is just get a car that will get you to and from work and school. Once you graduate from college, and start making 30k a year, then you can start thinking about beating the crap out of your car, and modifying it for racing. Spending $1500 on a standalone for a $3000 car, when you are making minimun wage is ridiculous, and constantly beating/racing and breaking your only vehicle is just plain stupid. Don't get me wrong, I like you, Bryan, but if you want to race you must first do a couple of things. One get a decent car that will be dependable to get you where you need to go and NOT breakdown, and NOT cost a lot for maintainance. Then you need to get a second car that you can build and race. This way if your race car breaks down, you can still get to work, and pay your bills! I wouldn't even think of building a fast car until I had a good job. Look I know how it is when you are young. I had my new 1986 SC when I was in college. That car had a warranty, and was great fun car to race a little, got good mileage and was cheap to insure. I paid 100% on my own college, even having to pay out of state tuition, and was living on my own including rent, car payment, insurance, etc...it wasn't easy. I worked a full time job during school and 2 jobs during the summer. Aside from a MP computer, I didn't modify my car until after I was out of college.
It wasn't until I was married, and was out of debt (aside from a mortgage) when I decided to get back into cars and start building some cool stuff. Right now your only goal should be how do prepare yourself for the future, and that means an education because minimun wage won't get you far.
Later,
Cindy

[BadAssPerformance]

....What you need to do is just get a car that will get you to and from work and school. Once you graduate from college, and start making 30k a year, then you can start thinking about beating the crap out of your car, and modifying it for racing....

And there you have it ;)

[mech1nxh]

Why would you want a MAF?

the car will see many altitudes and driving conditions....
I want to see if I can improve on the "blanket"
11.5 - 12.5 a/f mindset

[Frank]

Good advice Cindy!

Go to college and get a 4 year degree....

[BadAssPerformance]

the car will see many altitudes and driving conditions....
I want to see if I can improve on the "blanket"
11.5 - 12.5 a/f mindset

I am curious how a MAF will do better than a MAP on a turbo car? maybe we should make this a new thread under induction?

[Frank]

MAF will not get you anything over MAP. In addition a MAF system will cost you more and the MAF setup is difficult. A MAF that reads the airflow required for a big power machine is expensive, and when you include a turbo, you need to setup trap door on the sensor for when you snap the throttle shut.

Really speed density (MAP) is the easiest and will get you just as good results. This is especially benificial since you are getting the same effective pressure the motor is using. It is all relative and they both get you the same thing!


Frank

[Una]

The ONLY thing I've heard MAF is good for is injecting nitrous into the airbox.. All that cold nitrous rushing through the MAF sensor really richens up the mixture in a hurry.. heh..

[Frank]

Who injects N2O before a MAF??? That is crazy talk.

MAF data is useless by itself because you dont have temperature correction.... that is why the temp sensor is always located near the MAF. Those are always up stream of the throttle plates. A MAP looks at the conditions in the intake. MAF doesnt care the engine size or RPM when determining how much fuel needed because it knows mass flow rate. MAP looks at pressure, engine speed, and pumping efficency (VE).


Frank

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, the LS1's (I used this example because the computer will compensate andf add fuel for 150 shot) that people blow nitrous in the airbox (not the best way to do it, see the firebird video that blew the airbox off?) is more the temp sensor and computer logic than the MAF...

[Frank]

Ya I know its done... I just mean its crazy to do that.... I have seen so many cars with N2O explosions.

[BadAssPerformance]

A lot of that is because they pipe it into the airbox vs. the intake where it wants to be located...

[Dave]

I've never played with nitrous, but wouldn't the nitrous leak out of the couplers if injected before the any hard pipes?

Cindy - great advice, and you're right. But I have a big pricey turbo sitting around that I'll be sending out to you for a rebuild, and a nice shiny intercooler... can I please install those?? *gives puppy eyes* But seriously you are right. BTW I'm buying a '92 Acclaim TBI from my g/f next pay. Needs a MAP sensor (or maybe a MAF :thumb: ) and the kickdown lever needs smucked with.

[Una]

The MAF measures airflow by measuring the temperature drop across it's heated grid or little sensor on some of them. Obviously a ton of just evaporated nitrous is going to peg that thing's ability to measure, giving you max rich..

[Shadow24]

i am also a college student on a budget. i hadnt heard of the SDS system really, and with the 2000+ 3.0L 24vmotors, AEMs were 1K on the low end 1.5-2K upper. and the Haltech (high end good SA-ECU used by the boosted 3G guys) was 3-5K. i went with the MS, built it myself and am still working on it. IMHO, the MS unit will give you a VERY nice knowlege of what affects what in fuel/timing etc. $330 was all i paid for the MS and $200 for an LC-1 and i have a cmpletely programmable wideband logging realtime changeable computer. This was by far the best route for my 24v swap as i dont believe the stock ECU would handle the new motor. Just my $.02 but im learning a LOT with the MS

[Austrian Dodge]

i made my decision in the last 2 weeks. i'm going ems stinger4, this is an australian ecu with a lot of features!
i was thinking about going with its brother - 8860 - but i think i couldn't take advantage of all the extra functions!

i can get it for a good deal over here in europe, and have the possibility to have it dyno-tuned ;)

can't wait to get it :amen:

[MopàrBCN]

Hi,
So far I only have read about ems stinger4. It does sound interesting! Who is distributing/supporting it in Europe???

[Austrian Dodge]

there's a company in slovakia (1-2 hours drive).
others are in germany, belgium, greece and bulgaria.
check it here: http://www.enginemanagementsystem.com/Europe_Dealers.htm

i'll get it from the slovakian company cause it's not far away and they gave me the best deal!