TIII head w/ TII cam pulley/sprockets

[powermaxx]

I'm getting more stuff for the "Special Purpose" project. And have seen mention of using the TII cam pulleys on the TIII head. I'm going to run a distributor (custom intake) so the TIII undersized pulley on the oil drive shaft is out. Any problem or is this just a bolt on? (Wallace has my cams so I can't check it myself :) ). I've heard of Mike "Radowski" (sorry about the spelling Mike ;) ) doing this but couldn't find any info (or him due to my spelling no doubt!).

Also what belt length (p/n ?) would you need to use?

TIA!

ps: I'll be running all later style CB TII pulleys, etc...

[mcsvt]

Mike is only on TD I believe, and you have it spelled correctly. Sorry I can't be of any actual help.

[turbovanman²]

The only thing I have found is you use the TIII timing belt, cam and crank pulleys, use a 8valve int shaft pulley and then you delete the idler pulley or play will pulley sizes. I haven't got that far yet but should be mocking up my long block in the next couple of months.


http://www.turbododge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122133&highlight=pulley

[powermaxx]

THX Simon! I thought the belt tooth was unique to the TIII?

[DodgeZ]

the tIII belt is thicker or wider.

[turbovanman²]

THX Simon! I thought the belt tooth was unique to the TIII?

It is. I have put the belt on the stock 8v cam pulley and it fits fine. I honestly dont' know the difference between the belts but ? The TIII belt is wider but that doesn't matter when running the oil pump.

[DodgeZ]

I honestly dont' know the difference between the belts but ? The TIII belt is wider but that doesn't matter when running the oil pump.

it will if it hangs off the pulleys.

[turbovanman²]

it will if it hangs off the pulleys.

Why? it works as stated by the guys that have done it.

[DodgeZ]

Why? it works as stated by the guys that have done it.

I just read the TD link. What tensioner do you use? When I did a quick look at my TIII stuff it seemed like it wouldn't work The wear marks on the 2.5 stuff showed the belt didn't ride in the middle of the pulleys. The TIII belt is the about the same width as the 2.5 pulley so it would have be aligned 100% or it would hang off. The 2.5 gear also need to be bored out a tad if you want to use them.

[turbovanman²]

They say the stocker. I haven't got around to playing with mine yet.

[turbovanman²]

Another link-

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/showthread.php?p=457253#post457253

[iTurbo]

I was comparing a SOHC cam sprocket to the TIII adjustable cam sprockets I have here and it doesn't look like it could be made to work by combining them to make a sort of hybrid adjustable sprocket. The offset, inside diameter are too different between the two.

It sounds like Mike modified some Fidanza round tooth gears to work by machining them. Unfortunately that means no more cam sensor but does appear to be a solution for those using a distributor.

[turbovanman²]

Yeah, I am not too concerned with cam or crank sensors either, :D


I pm'd Mike about his setup and this is what he told me-


I bought 2 Fidanza 8v cam gears and machined some material off the back and inside to fit the t3 cams. I welded a new mounting boss to the l-body passenger motor mount to hold the timing belt tensioner. I then did a search through a gates timing belt book at a buddie's parts shop for a timing belt that had the right pitch, width, and tooth count.

It worked ok, but the belt was a little thin, and the alignment was always a tiny bit off, causing the belt to get chewed up after a decent amount of miles. I don't have the belt number off hand.

You are better off running the t3 belt/gears and a standalone like a haltech e6k/e6x.

[powermaxx]

Yeah, I am not too concerned with cam or crank sensors either, :D


I pm'd Mike about his setup and this is what he told me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Radowski
I bought 2 Fidanza 8v cam gears and machined some material off the back and inside to fit the t3 cams. I welded a new mounting boss to the l-body passenger motor mount to hold the timing belt tensioner. I then did a search through a gates timing belt book at a buddie's parts shop for a timing belt that had the right pitch, width, and tooth count.

It worked ok, but the belt was a little thin, and the alignment was always a tiny bit off, causing the belt to get chewed up after a decent amount of miles. I don't have the belt number off hand.

You are better off running the t3 belt/gears and a standalone like a haltech e6k/e6x. -

I'll be running a crank trigger for the FAST so all I need is a correct distributor (1:1 rotation, etc..) and nothing inside of it (gutted). If I have to run TIII all around then I've been toying with the idea of a belt drive distributor like Jessel makes for V8's. (Not wild about the "Off the cam" slotted direct drive for various reasons.)

Belt wear isn't an issue as this will be a drag race setup. :D

[turbovanman²]

Some pics have been added at TD, :D

[TurboJerry]

I am going to weld a 8V center to a T-III outer pulley to try this. I want to slow down the oil pump, and I think the cam sensor will not care as long as I'm close....... If it would be off by too much it won't run right because of the valve timing being screwy anyway...... I don't want a standalone EFI for this perticular car because it's going on my turbo 340 insted........

[powermaxx]

I got the TIII and TII pulleys now side by side and can see the difference in the tooth pattern. The TII tooth pattern is shallower and has a wider "Crest/Root".

So as I was looking this over I measured the bores: TII = .927", TIII = .901ish

The "Backspacing" (for lack of better words) is: TII=.355, TIII = .395 (not including guide flange). Measured to the hub face and the backside of the teeth/face. Not sure if the TIII cams require this amount to line up with the cam pulleys.....

The OD or Pitch diameter is the same between the two types.

So if I take the TIII exhaust (flanged) pulley and bore it out to match and machine off .04 on the hub face, it looks like you can just use the TIII cam pulley on the Int Shaft. Of course the tensioner in my situation will be a little custom but it sounds like this combo with a stock TIII belt would work.

I can't mock this up as Wallace has my TIII head. BUt it looks doable with the info I have at hand.

[turbovanman²]

I am going to weld a 8V center to a T-III outer pulley to try this. I want to slow down the oil pump, and I think the cam sensor will not care as long as I'm close....... If it would be off by too much it won't run right because of the valve timing being screwy anyway...... I don't want a standalone EFI for this perticular car because it's going on my turbo 340 insted........

It won't affect the cam sensor. Your slowing down the aux shaft, the cams are still spinning at the correct speed.


I got the TIII and TII pulleys now side by side and can see the difference in the tooth pattern. The TII tooth pattern is shallower and has a wider "Crest/Root".

So as I was looking this over I measured the bores: TII = .927", TIII = .901ish

The "Backspacing" (for lack of better words) is: TII=.355, TIII = .395 (not including guide flange). Measured to the hub face and the backside of the teeth/face. Not sure if the TIII cams require this amount to line up with the cam pulleys.....

The OD or Pitch diameter is the same between the two types.

So if I take the TIII exhaust (flanged) pulley and bore it out to match and machine off .04 on the hub face, it looks like you can just use the TIII cam pulley on the Int Shaft. Of course the tensioner in my situation will be a little custom but it sounds like this combo with a stock TIII belt would work.

I can't mock this up as Wallace has my TIII head. BUt it looks doable with the info I have at hand.


Hmmmmmmm, very interesting, :eyebrows: I am having some adjustable cam gears made so that would leave me with my stockers. I could run one for the aux shaft, :partywoot:

[powermaxx]

Hmmmmmmm, very interesting, :eyebrows: I am having some adjustable cam gears made so that would leave me with my stockers. I could run one for the aux shaft, :partywoot:

So do you have an extra? :) I'm looking for a spare to modify for the Int Shaft.

[powermaxx]

Hmmmmmmm, very interesting, I am having some adjustable cam gears made so that would leave me with my stockers. I could run one for the aux shaft,


So are these going to be the FWDP ones or some custom stuff? These things weigh a TON! I was thinking of aluminum. Mmmmmm, aluminum :eyebrows: I need a set either way.

[turbovanman²]

So do you have an extra? :) I'm looking for a spare to modify for the Int Shaft.

I might, won't know for awhile though.



So are these going to be the FWDP ones or some custom stuff? These things weigh a TON! I was thinking of aluminum. Mmmmmm, aluminum :eyebrows: I need a set either way.

No, a friend of mine is a machinist and he's learning 3D cad so he is tooling up to make them, he did mention 100% new but I haven't talked to him in a while, thats why I might have spares if he does make new ones.

If not, we should split a set. If you find some, I'll split it with you or vice versa. :thumb:

[powermaxx]

Boy have I screwed up! Got home and remeasured, cause this couldn't be so simple. WTF!!!:eek: Somehow I misread the dial calipers (more than once!) And being as I use these all the time I have no excuse other than I hadn't had my coffee yet.

The TIII pulley bore is 1.00" not .901'ish as I stated. Used my verniers at home just a few minutes ago and you can't screw that type up.

So now I figure to do this I'll have to sleeve it or weld it up and rebore it to TII specs.

And I kept telling myself "There must be a reason no one has done this".


My apologies to all. :(

[turbovanman²]

Or make spacer to fit inside the TIII pulley?

[TurboJerry]

I was going to make a sleeve and press it in. Use a tall key to get from the shaft to the pulley. The only problem is the belt alignment again. That's why I think welding/bolting a 8V center into it would be the closest. I too need to mock up this stuff to verify........

[turbovanman²]

Talked to my machinist friend, he said no problem to make a TIII belt style pulley that will fit the aux shaft, 8V size, :thumb:

[TurboJerry]

I'll buy 2 of them for sure.......... If it's possible............... If you know what I mean.............. I'm thinking too much..................

[turbovanman²]

I'll buy 2 of them for sure.......... If it's possible............... If you know what I mean.............. I'm thinking too much..................


Well, if he does do them, I have like 10 needed, :nod: