Oil in Coolant

[cordes]

I got over 1200 miles on Joy's Daytona after the modifications and repairs made in this thread:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?82025-Cracked-Piston-What-Would-You-Do&highlight=joytona

I noticed there was oil in the coolant this fall, so I let it sit and finally pulled the head today. It doesn't look like the HG was bad, but the head bolts didn't take as much force to get them loose as I thought they should. It was a Felpro gasket, and I think Felpro bolts. I certainly followed the procedure for proper torque, but I'm wondering if I didn't achieve a proper torque in spite of that. What are the possible causes of pushing oil out into the coolant?

[cbw1994]

Just my note, i quit using fel-pro head bolts because they yielded way before they reached the torque i wanted them to be at after the 90 degree turn. So i just started buying arp studs, or using mopars.
If i wouldnt have done the proof check on the fel-pro head bolts im sure they would of allowed the head to lift some under boost.

[cordes]

Just my note, i quit using fel-pro head bolts because they yielded way before they reached the torque i wanted them to be at after the 90 degree turn. So i just started buying arp studs, or using mopars.
If i wouldnt have done the proof check on the fel-pro head bolts im sure they would of allowed the head to lift some under boost.

That was my first thought when I let the bolts loose tonight. I do have a Starrett straight edge coming in the mail so I can more adequately check the flatness of head and block before I look at reinstalling it.

[mopar-tech]

Cracked block. Check the head bolt hole near the oil passage on the deck.

[chromguy]

Cracked block. Check the head bolt hole near the oil passage on the deck.
Let's hope it is only poor headbolts.....as the FelPro headbolts due have a reputation for yielding early.

[trannybuster]

Hmmm...well Ive used Felpro and havent had issue(s). If the process was FOLLOWED 100% blaming the bolts is dubious IMO. While a head gasket didnt 'look bad' it still could weep. Recently I ensure and wont accept less with coating off shelf head gaskets with the Permartex spray, which adds insurance. I actually like the way Felpro head-gaskets are designed as they have addressed head gasket failure(s) Ive had with Mopar before but again it may be I didnt follow process 100% :) .

https://www.autozone.com/sealants-glues-adhesives-and-tape/gasket-sealant/permatex-9-oz-aerosol-can-copper-spray-a-gasket-hi-temp-adhesive-sealant/520940_0_0

[cordes]

Cracked block. Check the head bolt hole near the oil passage on the deck.

Will it be obvious, or should I get out my fine toothed comb? Is it right on the top of the deck?


Hmmm...well Ive used Felpro and havent had issue(s). If the process was FOLLOWED 100% blaming the bolts is dubious IMO. While a head gasket didnt 'look bad' it still could weep. Recently I ensure and wont accept less with coating off shelf head gaskets with the Permartex spray, which adds insurance. I actually like the way Felpro head-gaskets are designed as they have addressed head gasket failure(s) Ive had with Mopar before but again it may be I didnt follow process 100% :) .


https://www.autozone.com/sealants-glues-adhesives-and-tape/gasket-sealant/permatex-9-oz-aerosol-can-copper-spray-a-gasket-hi-temp-adhesive-sealant/520940_0_0

While I don't think installation error should be an issue with this one, I haven't ruled out a tolerance on the deck and block that combined are out of spec. I didn't check these with a nice straight edge, so who knows.

Another thing which happened this summer is I split some fuel line at the back of the car. That caused a lean condition on occasion that I couldn't pin down until the line finally let loose. While the plugs looked lean, it doesn't look like it tore up the chamber, pistons, etc. Given the fact that the gasket looked near perfect, I would chalk that up to something which happened in addition to whatever caused the oil to flow into the coolant.

[shadow88]

Is it possible the trans cooler leaks? Is it an auto?

[cordes]

It's a 5 speed car, so that's out. Good call though, as I probably wouldn't think of it in my lonely auto car.

[mopar-tech]

Will it be obvious, or should I get out my fine toothed comb? Is it right on the top of the deck?

6372463725

Right on the top of the deck on my sons car.

[trannybuster]

Well I didnt go through the entire thread posted at the top, but that piston with missing 1st and 2nd land appears to have failed from pre-detonation....and that can lift a head a smidgen or stretch already stretched head bolts. Its takes very little knock to crack a stock piston, heck you may not even hear it and it will destroy ring lands AND rings!! Throw some stockers back in and lay off/retard the timing advance! Keep us posted and good luck!

[cordes]

I just got back in from checking the deck and head with a nice straight edge. It's pretty well flat across the head and block. I didn't see any problems with the deck like the pictures above showing the cracks. I think I'll probably get another gasket, invest in some better bolts, and give this another shot.

[135sohc]

Copper spray on a cometic and stud it. Don't remember what arp says for torque but iirc I went to 100ft-lbs in 3 steps, checked it several times over the course of 6 months afterwards and nothing ever lost torque... That was the turning point for me to stop messing with head bolts and composite head gaskets. FTR I still have the factory OE deck surface finish (which is not that great) and my head was skimmed twice so that sort of drove the decision to go with the thicker gasket since the timing marks were starting to not line up.

[cordes]

Thanks. I'll probably spring for the studs this time. I'm going to try another felpro gasket, as this head and block are good thickness wise. We'll see how it goes. I just hope it's not something silly like a cracked center housing on the turbo.

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

well if it is you now know where to get a new center casting for TII

not a center section assy but just the new bare casting

[cordes]

Just ordered some MP bolts from TU. For the cost difference between those and the studs, I couldn't justify it for this car. Even if I only used the bolts once, I could still change them at least once more before eclipsing the cost of the studs.

As far as the HG goes, does felpro only make the one? This is not a cross drilled block or head.

[135sohc]

It shows replacing all the oem part numbers.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=122464&jsn=252

[cordes]

Thanks. That is good to know. I had assumed that, but didn't see it when I ordered the kit off of Amazon.

[trannybuster]

Hmm...from that picture then they have changed the design of the turbo gasket..??