Intermediate Shaft Locked Up

[cordes]

The title pretty much says it all. The intermediate shaft is locked up tight. I'm assuming the only thing which could be a problem is the oil pump to int-shaft gears? I've never had this happen before.

[4 l-bodies]

Bummer. Could be the gears, but could be other things too. Might want to check to make sure bearings are in okay condition, although it might be hard to get snap gauge on inboard bearing though. Doubtful, but the bearings could have moved and covered up the oil feed causing it to seize. Should only have a couple/few thousands clearance. You should be able to at least run a coat hanger or something ridged to inboard side to make sure oil feed slot & drain in block lines up with bearing. You will have a visual of larger outside bearing after aux. shaft removal. Of course removing the pan will give you a visual. Oil pump could have ingested something too, locking that up. Wouldn't take much to lock up the oil pump.
That is a strange thing to happen to a 8v engine... Probably shred the timing belt too huh?
Todd

[cordes]

I don't believe it shredded the timing belt. It seems like the started had enough torque to turn the shaft, but it's stuck pretty good. Hopefully I can get this knocked out soon. It was fine when I primed the oil pump and put the engine in the car. The bearings looked good, and the holes where lined up. This is a first for me.

[zin]

Could be the oil pump ingested something a little too big and UN-digestable by the gears... That's what happened to my R/T, pump stopped, IS did NOT. Ground a nice divet into both gears...

Hate to say it, but there's not likely a pleasant resolution on this one...

Best of Luck!

Mike

[cordes]

Could be the oil pump ingested something a little too big and UN-digestable by the gears... That's what happened to my R/T, pump stopped, IS did NOT. Ground a nice divet into both gears...

Hate to say it, but there's not likely a pleasant resolution on this one...

Best of Luck!

Mike

That is a possibility. I just hope the damage is contained so I can throw in a new pump and shaft if need be.

[cordes]

I'm guessing that the timing belt was slipping on the int. shaft some. It's locked up tight even after I removed the oil pan and pump. The gears on the pump and int. shaft look fine. I'm wondering if something isn't pinching the int shaft pulley. It turned like one would expect when I was setting the timing on the stand and when I primed it on the stand.

Does any of the early AC stuff have the potential to contact that sprocket? That's the only thing I can think of right now.

[cordes]

To answer my own question; yes there can be interference between the int shaft sprocket and the AC compressor bracket. As a matter of fact, there can be enough to lock up the int. shaft all together.

Next question is, do the int. shaft and cam shaft sprockets differ in thickness? I noted when I was setting the timing that it looked like someone swapped the int shaft sprocket with the cam sprocket, as the part numbers were the same and the int. shaft didn't have the mark for the timing.

This is somewhat frustrating. I find it hard to believe I've magically never had a problem with this before in the past 16-17 years.

[4 l-bodies]

Have you ever noticed the square tooth timing belt is slightly wider than the round tooth timing belt? Another one of the Chrysler 2.2/2.5 mysteries (lol). The Masi 16v used narrower square tooth sprockets, but I have never seen a more narrow round tooth sprocket. I'm assuming your dealing with 557 sprockets? The 690 and 535 round tooth pulleys are the same thickness.
What year engine are we talking about? As you know they used various crank gears, which must be used with the corresponding pulleys or you could have a mismatch. Must be also used with correct tensioner or belt will not ride correctly on pulleys. As you know you don't really need a mark on the aux. shaft pulley, just line it up so the oil pump slot is parallel to the centerline of crank. Make your own mark when in proper timing faze . Years ago I've ran into pre/early production masi 16V stuff without marks. On the 16v Masi engines, depending whether you had a CB or early block, would determine which direction the aux. shaft pulley was installed.

Todd

[cordes]

I'm pretty sure it's the engine out of the actual car. It's an 86 Daytona, and I know for sure it's a non-common block engine. The square tooth sprocket (I'm assuming 557) was the same PN on the cam and int. shaft. The AC bracket is definitely pre common block, as it has the slots for the tall deck bosses rather than the holes of the later brackets. I loosened the pulley for the AC and the sprocket didn't free up. Once I removed the bolts holding the bracket down and finally, the two on the side of the block which were the culprit, the int shaft spun like normal.

[GLHS60]

So the A/C bracket itself was the culprit??

Was the Engine running prior to the jam??

Good catch !!! waiting for pics. if possible.

Thanks
Randy

[cordes]

Yes. It was definitely the bracket itself. It was pinching the sprocket for the int. shaft. It's almost like the sprocket is too wide, or the spacer on there is too narrow. I've never had this problem before. The car tried to fire a time or two. I'm guessing it would try to fire when the cam timing matched up with the frozen int shaft location.

I'm afraid that pics would be all but useless, as loosening he bolt and nut that go on the front of the engine was all that it took to free it up once I had the compressor and other bracket bolts out.

[GLHS60]

Appreciate you sharing, I like to hear about odd problems and solutions.

Again, glad you got it sorted!!

Thanks
Randy

[4 l-bodies]

Weird. All the dog bone spacers I have are a smidge over 1-13/16" wide, whether for CB or early block. Have two different part #'s, but all look exactly the same. Part # is 4556176 & 4241157 all of them have a second # stamped on part which is 09104. I know there are several different AC and non AC brackets. Maybe you have a newer or older alternator bracket on your engine? I have a complete engine on stand and my alt. bracket isn't within 3/16" of aux shaft pulley.
Well glad you've found the issue.
Todd

[GLHS60]

Todd:

I love a mechanical mystery..:confused2:

No picture for you!!! Or me. LOL

I also have an Engine on the stand but can't figure out Cordys issue.

Thanks
Randy

[cordes]

I took some pics tonight and I have everything totally figured out. Any more guesses as to the root of the problem? I'll try to get the pics up over the weekend. I hope to have the car running very soon.

[4 l-bodies]

Guesses? Well the dog bone spacer is used to locate the alternator/AC bracket horizontally, so I'm guessing the problem lies somewhere in that area. Maybe missing the spacer entirely? or maybe the aux. shaft sprocket on backwards like how the CB Masi engines run them?
Todd

[cordes]

Guesses? Well the dog bone spacer is used to locate the alternator/AC bracket horizontally, so I'm guessing the problem lies somewhere in that area. Maybe missing the spacer entirely? or maybe the aux. shaft sprocket on backwards like how the CB Masi engines run them?
Todd

We have a winner! Thanks to all who have helped out with this problem. It turns out that I was just dumb when I reinstalled the sprocket. I'll get the pics up soon.

[cordes]

The culprit.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/showfull.php?photo=19263

A properly oriented sprocket on a junk engine.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/showfull.php?photo=19264

You can see that there's not much of the bracket which interferes with the sprocket.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/showfull.php?photo=19266

All better.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/showfull.php?photo=19267

Thanks again for all the help guys.

Man does the photo hosting on this site suck. I'll try it again.

[cordes]

Well, suffice it to say the pics are in my gallery if anyone wants to look at them. The car is running now and sounds good. I don't know what the deal was with the alternator, but it was locked up and I had to replace it. Fun times.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions.