Fragility/ reliability etc

[polopharm]

So some more newbie questions.

It seems that virtually every few times out with the car , I end up with some type of engine issue.

I have the GTP that Mike Wah built with the t3.

So is it because they pushed the envelope to get a ton of horsepower? Are these engines just to delicate?
I believe Mike used reliable and skilled people - Jackson , Brian Slowe , vendors Cindy and turbos unleashed etc.

In the 2000 miles I have driven it , 1990 of them were hard miles, but still only have driven 2k miles. Boost has been between 15- 23 psi( never higher)

I have had to replace freeze plugs twice , I used both brass and steel, with that sealant Indian head. They blew out and or leaked.

Have replaced exhaust and intake gaskets , injector seals , re- machined head , new head gasket, it was a cometic , and I used a new one. Valve job, new lifters.
Valve cover gaskets replaced -( what a bummer that they are NLA)

Waste gate literally blew up , had to go to a water cooled one.

Crankcase breather - first used a passive system , am now installing an "active" system routed back to turbo with a valve and 2 catch cans ( i will provide more details once its explained to me more thoroughly.

This is just a partial list that I have come up with off the top of my head.

So back to my question? Are these engines prone to problems? Was this build to aggressive?

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[johnl]

Depressing, I'm sure. How long did it sit before you resurrected it? There's some voodoo around pickling and unpickling. Dissimilar metal electrolysis in the cooling system is a constant and the anti-electrolysis additives in coolant are sacrificially consumed over time. It might have benefitted from a re-torque of everything, just speculating, don't know if that's procedurally true or not.

[Reaper1]

What kind of ECM is controlling the engine and who tuned it?

A lot of times tunes that make really good power and are just fine for a street or even a dedicated drag car end up being way too aggressive for road course work.

I agree that the people and knowledge behind the build are all top notch and all people *I* would refer to.

I dunno...if it were me, I'd turn it way down (stock levels even), then go from there.

[tryingbe]

I have had to replace freeze plugs twice , I used both brass and steel, with that sealant Indian head. They blew out and or leaked.

What radiator PSI cap are you using?



In the 2000 miles I have driven it , 1990 of them were hard miles, but still only have driven 2k miles. Boost has been between 15- 23 psi( never higher)

How hard? On a road course?




Have replaced exhaust and intake gaskets , injector seals , re- machined head , new head gasket, it was a cometic , and I used a new one. Valve job, new lifters.
Valve cover gaskets replaced -( what a bummer that they are NLA)



Injectors seals are rubber, rubber gets hard over time.

Was the intake manifold gasket leaking?
Was the exhaust manifold gasket leaking?
Was the head gasket leaking?
Was the valves leaking?
I heard 4.3 valve cover can be made to work.




Waste gate literally blew up , had to go to a water cooled one.


....? What did you actually replaced? Only things getting water cooled is the block, head, and the center section of the turbo.

[polopharm]

Hi. Lots of good questions - when I got the car it had less then 500mi on a full rebuild.

So the ecu is from Cindy, its a stage 2.
The valve seals were leaking at cyl 2 and 3. The others were fine , not brittle.
Head gasket was leaking were the head needed to be re-decked ( the weird drain plug , that people replace with npt plug). Valve job done when head was apart.

Exhaust and intake gaskets both were leaking.
Radiator has 2 overflow tanks , one has no pressure release the other has one similar to the "stant" brand you find at auto parts stores

Most miles are track day or aggressive canyon carving.

The waste gate was a "tial" external wastegate. It literally blew out all 8 allen bolts. Replaced it with a "tial" water cooled version , coolant is t'd off from the water pump.

Engine has been apart 3x each time re-torqued using the t3 instructions from this site. All clearances measured and were correct. Bottom end has been fine.

I feel that all the work has been done to a very high standard.

My concern is this - most Lotus owners will tell you " for every 2 hours of driving you should expect 8 hours of wrenching"

I am hoping this does not continue to be the case here!

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[tryingbe]

Interesting setup.

Drive like a race car, maintain like a race car is what I've been told.

[contraption22]

I thought the Tial that was already on the car had a provision for water cooling.

[polopharm]

Yeah the tial had provision for it. Haf to swap it for a new one as the threads were too far gone.

I get the "drive it like a racecar maintain it like a racecar" - i am guessing that I have done that more then 90% of people out there.
But this car has never been raced, never pushed to the true limit. But I get your point.

Hopefully the 8v NOS going in the race car will be less delicate. We know theT2 have won a lot of races

Did Dodge ever road race the T3 ? Did privateers ever have success with it back in the day?

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[polopharm]

Just wanted to clarify that I love the way the car drives , the way the engine set up performs , powerband , revs everything.

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[tryingbe]

Just wanted to clarify that I love the way the car drives , the way the engine set up performs , powerband , revs everything.

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Have you dyno it? I'd love to see the powerband.

[polopharm]

Funny you should ask , i am not sure if Mike ever did , i was just going to look through his build thread.

When driving it on the track i am always boosted. Comes on +/- 3k pulls till it hits rev limiter.

My normal shop is swamped but we have been planning to dyno it for over a year!

My racecar with the t2 has a standalone so will be dyno tuning that one and will probably put this car on the dyno then.

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[2.216VTurbo]

TIII's, great power potential but finicky IMO. You didn't even mention heavy oil consumption and the dreaded oil puff on decel. Ive had a few and Im over them. Let those folks you mentioned deal with them. be glad to be rid of my last TIII powered car.:nod:

[Pat]

I haven't found them to be any more fragile or finicky than any other 2.2/2.5 motor if some of the basics are addressed on the front end. My most recent t3 has been together since 2008, has been drag raced, autocrossed and has run in 4 drag weeks, towing a trailer over 4000 miles.

[Reaper1]

So the ecu is from Cindy, its a stage 2.

Most miles are track day or aggressive canyon carving.

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To me, this is where *I* would start. FWD tunes are "canned" tunes. You *NEED* a fully custom tune for that set-up.

I wonder...what are your EGT's and A/F?

[polopharm]

We have an innovate afr, I cant remember the specifics but its always been what my guy considers " normal" , never too lean under full boost. I dont have a egt gauge.

At some point we will probably do a full standalone ecu. For now until the race car is finished I dont want to create even more downtime.

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[Pat]

What fuel are you running?

[polopharm]

The car was " tuned" to run on 93.

Further evaluation today revealed-
1- the amazing custom oil pan Brian made has cracked on a number of welds ( i havent contacted him but he's great and i am sure he will take care of it)

2- oil feed to turbo is cooked despite aero grade heat shield

3- tranny is leaking from the filler plug and from the vent.
In my last Consulier we had to drill and tap the hole and make a plug.

4- leaking coolant from the water pump.

So no track time for me this weekend, on a positive note, new shifter cables installed, and the dual can , valved breather is in place.

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[GLHNSLHT2]

It's an un-reliable pile. I'll do you a favor and take it off your hands so you don't have any more stress.

[polopharm]

Haha. No. Not yet. Still love to drive it.
Everytime i think its been dialed in, another problem crops up.
And you are right that I should quit whining.
Glad you reminded me

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[iTurbo]

I don't consider myself a TIII "power user", but I have built a few and I used to deliver pizza in a Spirit R/T for years. I know the TIII has some aspects that were never quite ironed out from the factory, but it was very reliable and got great gas mileage. Back then, it was decently quick, but not fast. A few years ago I rebuilt that engine from the bare block and sold it to one of my friends who is a manager at NAPA. He modified it with a big turbo, intercooler, +40/3-bar FWDP cal etc etc....He has the boost turned up to 24 psi and drives it to work in the summer sometimes and it is still rocking with no major issues that I'm aware of. It is scary-fast now IMO.

I know the TIII is known for timing belt problems, I-shaft/oil pump failures, leaky cylinder heads, core plug issues.....but I never had any of that. My only (recurring) problem has been roller rockers seizing up and wiping out a cam lobe. Even then, you'd be hard pressed to know anything was amiss until you pop off a valve cover and see it for yourself. I guess I'm lucky.

[Reaper1]

I know how to solve all this! Masi swap! ;)

[Chris W]

These engines are completely reliable as long as quality parts are installed correctly. Consider the "Jackson timing belt" modification and check your belt tension periodically.

Chris-TU

[GLHNSLHT2]

I know how to solve all this! Masi swap! ;)


Quiet Chris, I've got the motor sitting in the shop waiting to go in.

[polopharm]

We installed the new breather system. Pictures enclosed. Double catch can
Note lines run to head , and valve on intake.

The oil pan is leaking from the weld. Weird because it looks like a perfect TIG weld. If you wipe it off with a rag it seep out again in a matter of seconds.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171216/933f40e7d635f4a7ffd0b1a1cfd27d67.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171216/d0f5e330e826bb33746d6ca5b47c4f4f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171216/d794dc5ba72a96bc6e1f28614d3b1057.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171216/31c3592e595e383b30cfbd69a62a2eb4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171216/3261ab12c59510427d00462fea4146fc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171216/78eb0dc969ba4d7505628e7dd14e242d.jpg

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[iTurbo]

I know how to solve all this! Masi swap! ;)

Hell yeah! Honestly though, I really like both the Masi 16v and Lotus TIII setups. For the longest time I had wanted to do a 2.5L TIII in my SL, but in the end I went to the Masi 16v. Now the 2.5L TIII is going into my white Spirit R/T instead.

I'm kicking around the idea of doing Masi 16v in my new gold GLH Turbo, but it is so unmolested I really just think I should leave it as-is sometimes.

As far as budget/power, I really still think the TIII wins. Especially for someone like me that is fabrication-challenged. And the price of admission for Masi 16v is pretty insane and there is some luck involved. It is so much easier to bolt stuff on the TIII and go fast! I've found that if you are meticulous in the build they are A OK and hold up great.

[86Shelby]

My TIII has been quite reliable for years. My only complaint is the constant valve train noise even after new lifters and such. If it didnt make that noise I'd have full faith in taking it anywhere, anytime. Yes, I push it. Ran a few 12s this summer with it.

[turbovanman²]

Never had an issue with my TIII and I daily drove it for years. The only time I had issues was when the red mist took over and when lost an injector which melted a cylinder down, :(