V6 Injector Comparison

[RaiderGT]

I have both Spirit and Van injectors, they are obviously different, but how exactly? Are they interchangeable? If I get the Spirit injectors cleaned up will they work in the van just fine?

[zin]

The difference should be in their flow capacities and possibly latency, but physically, they should be plug and play. I imagine the V6 will be much smaller, as those engines don't have nearly the same specific output that the R/T (or even a T1) would have, so they don't need to be very big, but how big/small they are, I can't say, don't have that specific info... maybe someone familiar with the V6s can chime in?...

Mike

[lightbulb010]

There are high and low impedance injectors depending on the year. Not sure what year the changeover was but I think the sbec II cars/vans got the high impedance and before that they were all low impedance. They aren't interchangeable on the early vans. I tried to use high impedance injectors with the 87' SMEC and it would start and idle for a few seconds then the power loss light would come on and the engine would cut off. Oddly enough,it wouldn't stutter or act strangely in any way. It would just cut off. Almost like the SMEC shut it down on purpose. Checking the codes showed an injector code.

The injectors from my 87' have green tops and black bodies. Those are low impedance for sure. I have a set from a 93' van with unknown impedance, those have orange tops and black bodies. I'm assuming they are low impedance based on what I have read. I will ohm them later today to find out. The ones I'm using with my megasquirt are from a 3.0l of unknown origin(had to be newer though because it had the flywheel with the ring on it for a hall effect sensor) and they are for sure high impedance. These have orange tops with silver bodies. What colors are yours?

[masterjr33]

post up the part numbers. and we can look up the specs. sometimes they are the same sometimes they are not.

[RaiderGT]

The van injectors are black and read MD116218 on one side. 280150812 on the other.
The spirit injectors are black with orange tops and read MD158484 on one side. INP-066 on the other. Should I grab the spirits computer too? or is that a whole new can of worms?

[Force Fed Mopar]

All 3.0 injectors are 19#, IIRC. I have white top injectors in mine, which is standard for 91. Also, I'm pretty sure you can use high impedance in a low impedance car, but not vice versa.

[lightbulb010]

...I'm pretty sure you can use high impedance in a low impedance car, but not vice versa.
That's the way it normally works. It doesn't work on the 87' SMEC though. I was pretty pissed when I had to switch mine out.

My green top 87' injectors have the same 280150812 number on them. I wonder if they just changed the color or if the black ones are replacements. Do the black ones have metal tips on them? My green tops do.

I always wondered if the early van injectors were still 19# because the fuel pressure was lower.

Using the computer from the spirit will be a new can of worms. It could be done but I don't see there being enough advantages to make it worth the time.

[Force Fed Mopar]

FWIW, if you need some extra fuel, Ford 24# injectors fit right in (from the 93 Cobra and early 90's 460's).

[masterjr33]

The van injectors are black and read MD116218 on one side. 280150812 on the other.

This are 19.3 lb low impedance injectors. bosch ev1. 193-200CC. 1.7-2.4 ohm

The spirit injectors are black with orange tops and read MD158484 on one side. INP-066 on the other. Should I grab the spirits computer too? or is that a whole newican .


these are high imp injectors. 14.2-15.2 ohm



I would find another set and not mix ohms..

[RaiderGT]

I would find another set and not mix ohms..


Ok so I need to use low impedence injectors in my build since that's what the factory electrics are looking for?

[Force Fed Mopar]

91 is low impedence, yes.

[Ondonti]

That's the way it normally works. It doesn't work on the 87' SMEC though. I was pretty pissed when I had to switch mine out.

My green top 87' injectors have the same 280150812 number on them. I wonder if they just changed the color or if the black ones are replacements. Do the black ones have metal tips on them? My green tops do.

I always wondered if the early van injectors were still 19# because the fuel pressure was lower.

Using the computer from the spirit will be a new can of worms. It could be done but I don't see there being enough advantages to make it worth the time.
I have often wondered about the 27psi 1987 fuel flow.

Have some highz 4 hole skinny injectors in my 2.5t1 1990, but dead times are different, probably less, so way too much fuel at idle.

[RaiderGT]

91 is low impedence, yes.


Ok thanks. I will just buy new ones as they are $16 at Rock Auto. Its a '93 Spirit motor in an '88 Van. I guess I will need to retain the Van's fuel rails as well.



That's the way it normally works. It doesn't work on the 87' SMEC though. I was pretty pissed when I had to switch mine out.

My green top 87' injectors have the same 280150812 number on them. I wonder if they just changed the color or if the black ones are replacements. Do the black ones have metal tips on them? My green tops do.

I always wondered if the early van injectors were still 19# because the fuel pressure was lower.

Using the computer from the spirit will be a new can of worms. It could be done but I don't see there being enough advantages to make it worth the time.


Yes they have the metal tips.



FWIW, if you need some extra fuel, Ford 24# injectors fit right in (from the 93 Cobra and early 90's 460's).


Those are high impedance from what I see though.

[lightbulb010]

Is the 90' T1 still an SMEC? Do you get a code Ondonti?

I was surprised when the van wouldn't run on the high impedance injectors. They were pink top injectors from a 3.9l dakota which are also supposed to be 19lb/hr. The Dakota ran fine and was scrapped for another reason. I had the injectors and figured the spray pattern might be better. I know it seems strange that it would just shut off the engine like that. It would sometimes run for a few seconds with no power loss light then the light would come on and the engine would instantly die. Sometimes it would only be a split second before the light would come on and the engine shut off. I don't know how else to explain that. It must have been shutting off the injectors. I know when you overload the injector circuits they will shut off(impedance too low). I experienced that when I tried to connect extra injectors in parallel. I came to the conclusion that the SMEC must be looking for a particular impedance range and anything outside of that range will cause it to stop pulsing the injectors. Even though the drivers should be able to handle higher impedance injectors just fine. I never tried the orange tops until I got megasquirt so I can't say for sure that they won't work. My van is an early 87' model too so there could have been revisions to cals made later on. At the time my van was built it was the only model that would have had an SMEC.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Those are high impedance from what I see though.

They are, but they work. Like I said, you can run high impedence in a low impedence car (87 the exception apparently) but not low in a high car.

[Ondonti]

Is the 90' T1 still an SMEC? Do you get a code Ondonti?

I was surprised when the van wouldn't run on the high impedance injectors. They were pink top injectors from a 3.9l dakota which are also supposed to be 19lb/hr. The Dakota ran fine and was scrapped for another reason. I had the injectors and figured the spray pattern might be better. I know it seems strange that it would just shut off the engine like that. It would sometimes run for a few seconds with no power loss light then the light would come on and the engine would instantly die. Sometimes it would only be a split second before the light would come on and the engine shut off. I don't know how else to explain that. It must have been shutting off the injectors. I know when you overload the injector circuits they will shut off(impedance too low). I experienced that when I tried to connect extra injectors in parallel. I came to the conclusion that the SMEC must be looking for a particular impedance range and anything outside of that range will cause it to stop pulsing the injectors. Even though the drivers should be able to handle higher impedance injectors just fine. I never tried the orange tops until I got megasquirt so I can't say for sure that they won't work. My van is an early 87' model too so there could have been revisions to cals made later on. At the time my van was built it was the only model that would have had an SMEC.
1990 sbec1 no codes. Had to drop fuel pressure a lot cause 36pph plus skinny thin 4 hole style with different dead times.
You can't really swap injectors like I used to think unless you can change dead times in the ecu. My piggyback with no injector fly back circuits gets a code for each injector and won't open injectors if dead time is too short. Dead time could be too short once warm-up happens but that seems excessive as dead times are 0.1 to 1.5 milliseconds usually and idle is 3ms down to 2s after warm-up

[hightest2.5]

So my understanding of upgrading injectors on an otherwise stock 3.0 (1991) is not something that can be done without upgrading the computer? If so, what computer would be needed to run the aforementioned '93 Cobra injectors? And what size fuel pump for this?

[lightbulb010]

You can upgrade them. I had issues with the 87' computer but everyone else who's tried it has been at least somewhat successful. You will have to trick the computer somehow unless you don't mind your AFR being off.

[Force Fed Mopar]

You can go a few lbs bigger, it'll be a bit rich on startup but should adjust out after that. I did this on my '93 D150.