SRT4 PCV Improvement

[BadFastGTC]

Those of you who own the SRT4 may or may not be aware of the fact the factory PCV valve is more of a "positive crankcase pressurization" device. Many people put a checkvalve in the PCV line. I decided to try a different route. I took a stock SRT4 PCV and hacksawed off the top. I then removed the useless internals. I trial fit a TII PCV These do not leak boost. Tight, but not quite right. There are 4 raised lines that serve as a stationary for the stock check valve "seat". I took a little material off the TII PCV and it fit very well. I tried an o-ring to seal the two pieces and wasn't satisfied with that. I ended up using good old JB Weld to put the two together permanently. I haven't had a TII PCV valve fail yet. Hence, the permanent coupling of the two. Total time: 10 minutes.

[BadAssPerformance]

Never heard that, good to know! :thumb:

[TurboGLH]

Nice work Steve. I just ordered a check valve for mine as it's that last boost leak I've got to seal, but I found the mfg for them and paid $9.99 by buying direct instead of the $38.xx that they go for on the srtforums.

[gvare001]

That's problem on the SRT-4 and many other modern cars. The PCV valve sucking the unwanted stuff!!!!

[DodgeZ]

bump...

[ScottD]

Good idea, I missed this thread when it was first posted. I will have to put this on my to do list for my SRT-4 along with a catch can.

[Pat]

Good idea, I missed this thread when it was first posted. I will have to put this on my to do list for my SRT-4 along with a catch can.

Without pressurizing the crap out of the crankcase, you may not need a catch can.

I ran an inline pvc that I dug up in the parts store in the line to the stock pvc on mine. Worked like a charm and did not see much oil through the intake track at all.

[ScottD]

Food for thought. Maybe if I could get these TMs in my driveway done I'd have time to fool with the SRT-4.

[turbovanman²]

Steve, I've noticed allnew brands of Dodge turbo PCV valves leak boost, even the OEM ones now. They used to have a rubber seal but I guess cost took over and they are just hard plastic.

Twin turbo Supra's will not leak one bit of boost, I've air checked it against OEM Dodge ones-which all leak, some worse than others. They are metal, $10 at the dealer, only use OEM. ;)

[Keito]

steve, i've noticed allnew brands of dodge turbo pcv valves leak boost, even the oem ones now. They used to have a rubber seal but i guess cost took over and they are just hard plastic.

Twin turbo supra's will not leak one bit of boost, i've air checked it against oem dodge ones-which all leak, some worse than others. They are metal, $10 at the dealer, only use oem. ;)

p/n??

[turbovanman²]

Toyota #12204-46020.

[05acr/88shelby]

seems like a good idea going to try it.

[moparfwdsleeper]

Toyota #12204-46020.

Thanks Simon:thumb:

[BadFastGTC]

Simon, I ordered a couple of these at work. Nice valve! Thanks! FYI, THESE ARE STRAIGHT VALVES, NOT 90 DEGREE UNITS.



Toyota #12204-46020.

[moparfwdsleeper]

Simon, I ordered a couple of these at work. Nice valve! Thanks! FYI, THESE ARE STRAIGHT VALVES, NOT 90 DEGREE UNITS.

how did you go about installing it?

[ScottD]

I copied Steve's idea but to try something different I used the Supra pcv. It fit pretty snug in there but I sealed the top off with RTV. I hooked it up with a 90 deg hose off a TD w/ another short hose that had a slight bend to it (it was a shortened TD brake booster hose). I used a vacuum connector to mate the two hoses but cut the little pieces off it so I could squish the hoses together and make it look factory. Turned out pretty good.

[moparfwdsleeper]

Thanks for the pics Scott!

[Session9]

Hey Scott, your pcv valve is metal but using the part number provided by Turbovanman brings up a picture of a plastic looking valve. Is your the same part number or what was the one you got? I was just randomly browsing the web looking for ways to fix vacuum/boost leaks and came across this idea. And would this help with oil in the intake or would a catch can and check valve as well help to keep it bone dry? I'm still learning the ins and outs of SRT's.

[ScottD]

The valve I got is a Purolator valve from Pep Boys. Can't remember the PN but you should be able to look it up in their book.

Regarding catch can/oil in the intake, below is what Pat said in an earlier post:

Without pressurizing the crap out of the crankcase, you may not need a catch can.

I ran an inline pvc that I dug up in the parts store in the line to the stock pvc on mine. Worked like a charm and did not see much oil through the intake track at all.

[DodgeZ]

Supra valve...
Purolator PCV Valve
Part No. PV1009

$1.79

[DodgeZ]

Supra valve...
Purolator PCV Valve
Part No. PV1009

$1.79

I bought two of these today. They both leak badly.

[ScottD]

I bought two of these today. They both leak badly.

Kevin - were the valves plastic you got or metal? The one I'm using is a metal one and if I recall cost a little more than $1.79. That's not to say mine isn't leaking though, I need to do another boost leak test on my car to be certain of that.

[DodgeZ]

Kevin - were the valves plastic you got or metal? The one I'm using is a metal one and if I recall cost a little more than $1.79. That's not to say mine isn't leaking though, I need to do another boost leak test on my car to be certain of that.

They are metal

[DodgeZ]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=495957&postcount=11

[MR. X]

Great fix. Mind if I steal if for my project cars?

[ScottD]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=495957&postcount=11

You're quoting Simon? I think hell just froze over :)

I'll try Simon's test on my valve but I'm guessing I'll get the same result as you and he did.

[DodgeZ]

You're quoting Simon? I think hell just froze over :)

I'll try Simon's test on my valve but I'm guessing I'll get the same result as you and he did.

yeah isn't that some ----. He did say in this thread to buy OEM. Of course reading over it again I missed that. John had some go info also, it seems some are good and some aren't.

http://boostedmopar.com/forums/showthread.php?16730-Crank-Case-Evacuation&p=97887&viewfull=1#post97887

I tossed an O-ring in it and greatly helped. It isn't 100% but should be good enough until I find another one. I'll get some video of it after work.

[turbovanman²]

Holy shitt, I just had a heart attack, :faint:

Kevin can't have done what he just did, lol. :p




Hey Scott, your pcv valve is metal but using the part number provided by Turbovanman brings up a picture of a plastic looking valve. Is your the same part number or what was the one you got? I was just randomly browsing the web looking for ways to fix vacuum/boost leaks and came across this idea. And would this help with oil in the intake or would a catch can and check valve as well help to keep it bone dry? I'm still learning the ins and outs of SRT's.

OE Toyota are metal.

[DodgeZ]

Holy shitt, I just had a heart attack, :faint:

Kevin can't have done what he just did, lol. :p

I'll agree with you when you are right. It is just rare as hell....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uavgmgsuX8


This O-ring fits pretty good. It is a cheap harbor freight kit but says it is good for heat and oil. it seals up pretty good once the o-ring is in it.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25903&stc=1&d=1285798032

[rbryant]

I just went to Autozone the other day and opened up about 10 valves from the shelf.

I checked to see which one sealed the best and chose a pair of them that cost only $2.50 and did a good job. Hopefully I was the first to "test" them all...


I plan on leaving the stock PCV in place and simply adding 2 more into the system with my catch can.

The reason for two more is that I plan on using the intake mani to source the PCV when in vacuum and the turbo inlet when under boost both of which should go through a catch can oil separator.

This is done like this:

"->-" represents a PCV where air is flowing left to right and "-<-" is right to left.. If you select them carefully you can find valves that work pretty well as a check valve when flow is reversed.

Quick diagram:


intake manifold---<---->-------turbo inlet
..........................|=| (catch can)
valve cover---->---| (line has stock pcv in it just so I don't have to modify it)


This way the intake normally sucks air from the valve cover and also sucks the turbo inlet PCV shut (because it is a much better vacuum source than the turbo inlet's larger pipe).

When the Intake is under boost the normal PCV on the intake manifold line is pushed shut from the boost which basically disconnects it from the valve cover. This allows for the turbo inlet PCV to open and suck air out of the valve cover through the catch can instead of being sucked shut from the intake.

The valve cover breather should be connected to a separate inlet filter from the turbo inlet so that it is always at less vacuum than the turbo inlet.



The turbo inlet PCV might have to be changed out with a true check valve but I think the PCV I selected will act as one without any problems.

As an experiment the $2.50 PCV is cheaper than running two $25 brass check valves.... I will have to put a vac gauge on the setup and monitor things once I get the car going.

Note that PCVs have to be mounted vertically to work properly!

-Rich

[turbovanman²]

I'll agree with you when you are right. It is just rare as hell....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uavgmgsuX8


This O-ring fits pretty good. It is a cheap harbor freight kit but says it is good for heat and oil. it seals up pretty good once the o-ring is in it.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25903&stc=1&d=1285798032

Nice vid BUT why mess around, spend the extra dough and get the OE one that doesn't leak at all. :thumb:

[ScottD]

My Purolator leaked too, just took it out of the car. Of the 3, stock seemed to leak most, Purolator Supra 2nd, and old school TD pcv the least. I took out the Purolator Supra valve and am going to use the TD valve like Steve did.

[DodgeZ]

the O-Ring trick doesn't work. it flops around to much going from vacuum to boost..

[DodgeZ]

Nice vid BUT why mess around, spend the extra dough and get the OE one that doesn't leak at all. :thumb:


I tossed an O-ring in it and greatly helped. It isn't 100% but should be good enough until I find another one. I'll get some video of it after work.

:thumb:

[DodgeZ]

My Purolator leaked too, just took it out of the car. Of the 3, stock seemed to leak most, Purolator Supra 2nd, and old school TD pcv the least. I took out the Purolator Supra valve and am going to use the TD valve like Steve did.

is the old school one a mopar one? If so is it the old mopar or a new mopar style?

[Aries_Turbo]

rich, can you make a MS paint drawing of that setup? the ascii art is a little hard to follow. :)

[MR. X]

Try a Standard PN V165

I did a pcv system on the SRT4 and the Shadow. I will post the pics after the fuel pump is done on the Shadow.

[DodgeZ]

Try a Standard PN V165

I did a pcv system on the SRT4 and the Shadow. I will post the pics after the fuel pump is done on the Shadow.

I don't think I have standard brand around here. Looks the same as this bwd. They both say 2103.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BOR0/PCV207.oap?year=1987&make=Dodge&model=Daytona&vi=1089301&forcedVehicle=true&pt=02180&ppt=C0023

http://www.woodys-auto-supply.com/auto-part-details.asp?prod=STD-V165

[MR. X]

I have a bunch of BWD in stock, but the parts store carries Standard which is an excellent brand imo.

[ScottD]

is the old school one a mopar one? If so is it the old mopar or a new mopar style?

I was going to use aftermarket BWD. In the old days I used to hear "only use a Mopar PCV valve" but I've used aftermarket ones with no issues.

[MR. X]

Who do you think make the OE stuff. The aftermarket most the time. I use OEM stuff only if its less expensive or is in fact better. For example the SRT4 clutch is made by Exedy with a Sachs PP. I save over $100 by buying the Exedy clutch directly. Same part.

[rbryant]

rich, can you make a MS paint drawing of that setup? the ascii art is a little hard to follow. :)

Don't be so lazy it isn't that bad...

My drawings aren't much better especially when I am trying to run work stuff in the background at home late at night and nothing is going right!!!! Time for sleep I think...


The idea is that there is much more vacuum in the intake manifold than in the turbo inlet when not under boost. The intake manifold vacuum should be able to suck PCV valve(or check valve) #3 shut with the vacuum from the manifold in most cases so the flow will go to the catch can and stock PCV valve.

Once it is under boost PCV valve (or check valve) #2 will be pushed shut and #3 will be released. At that point the turbo inlet is sucking in a lot of air so it should put a vacuum through PCV valve #3 through the catch can and to the stock PCV valve.

The catch can is an oil separator so it should keep most of the oil out of the turbo.


It is the same idea as using two catch cans but it uses check valves instead.

25906

[Aries_Turbo]

Don't be so lazy it isn't that bad...

im not being lazy, i cant understand your crazy ascii art ;)

Brian

[ScottD]

I did some reading on this on SRT Forums and now my head hurts.

I may grab the OEM Supra valve and try that first, that's a more cost effective solution.

The other solution I see would be to keep the stock PCV valve and run a check valve along with a catch can. That costs more $ though and I'm frugal.

[contraption22]

Thanks, Rich!

Nice diagram!





25906

[rbryant]

Thanks, Rich!

Nice diagram!

I had one other thought as I slept on the idea...

A solenoid might be the better solution compared to the #3 check valve to swap from intake vac to turbo inlet vac.

That way the check valves aren't even fighting with each other and it solves all of that mess.

The Neon Purge valve is actually a pretty large solenoid. So if we were to set it up to toggle on at boost (switch from the intake to the turbo inlet as its vacuum source) it should work really well.

For some reason I haven't ever seen anyone talk about using a solenoid to isolate boost from vacuum on the PCV system.... Perhaps I should file a patent or something. :)

-Rich

[DodgeZ]

I had one other thought as I slept on the idea...

A solenoid might be the better solution compared to the #3 check valve to swap from intake vac to turbo inlet vac.

That way the check valves aren't even fighting with each other and it solves all of that mess.

The Neon Purge valve is actually a pretty large solenoid. So if we were to set it up to toggle on at boost (switch from the intake to the turbo inlet as its vacuum source) it should work really well.

For some reason I haven't ever seen anyone talk about using a solenoid to isolate boost from vacuum on the PCV system.... Perhaps I should file a patent or something. :)

-Rich

I saw that on a ford forum.

[rbryant]

I saw that on a ford forum.

Ok cool.

So what do you think?

Isn't running a Solenoid that blocks the boost better than a valve that doesn't seal?

-Rich

[turbovanman²]

I have a bunch of BWD in stock, but the parts store carries Standard which is an excellent brand imo.

BWD are ok products, some are good, some are bad, some products you run away from, lol. Standard I've found are low end of the quality scale.


I was going to use aftermarket BWD. In the old days I used to hear "only use a Mopar PCV valve" but I've used aftermarket ones with no issues.

Yeah, the old Mopar valves didn't leak, like the one Kevin shows in his vid, the new ones I think are simply N/A valves, :(


Who do you think make the OE stuff. The aftermarket most the time. I use OEM stuff only if its less expensive or is in fact better. For example the SRT4 clutch is made by Exedy with a Sachs PP. I save over $100 by buying the Exedy clutch directly. Same part.

Not necessarily true, I see alot of reboxed OE parts in aftermarket part's box's, and some of the aftermarket parts are crap, hence the cheaper price-they gotta leave something out to save money, :eyebrows:

[rbryant]

I just bought a motorcycle PAIR valve that I am going to look at using as part of my PCV system.

I plan to connect it to a boost switch (probably a megasquirt output) much the same way that a water injection switch works... It switches between intake manifold suction and the turbo inlet when the engine starts to boost. I won't be using the water injection feature in megasquirt because that turns off 02 feedback but I think I can still use a generic output based on the MAP.

This way as long as the PAIR valve seals well it will ensure that the PCV valve always has suction. The suction will come from the intake when in vacuum and from the turbo inlet when in boost. It doesn't rely on the PCV valve sealing well under boost or a system of check valves.

The valve looks pretty nice actually. I got it for $16 on ebay. It is designed to inject air into the motorcycle exhaust so it should be pretty solid. The other nice thing is that most people remove them from their bikes so they are cheap and often nearly new.

This one is from a 03-04 CBR.

25925

-Rich

[ScottD]

Picked up my OEM Supra PCV valve today. Passed the blow through test, and I blow a lot of hot air so that's pretty good. Going to put it in and see what happens.