Masi 16v valve cover

[iTurbo]

I'm just wondering if there is a trick to removing and installing the Masi 16v valve cover without removing the cam gears first?

I installed the valve cover and timing belt today on the SL, but I'm having a hard time verifying the cam timing is correct. I can only seem to remove and reinstall the valve cover with the cam gears removed. Since the holes for lining up the cams is under the cover, and I can't have the cam gears installed while installing the cover, it's turning into a big pain in the ---.

So anyway, I lined up all the timing marks, then removed the cam gears so I could install the valve cover. I install the valve cover and then the cam gears. So far so good......but then I have to torque the cam gear bolts and that makes the gears move a bit, which makes it impossible to know for sure if the cams are in the right position or not. Hope this makes sense.

I wish there was a way to do the valve cover with the cam gears already torqued on, but the valve cover goes inside the cam gears a bit and won't allow it to go on or off with them in the way.

Also, the new valve cover gasket seems to fit perfect.

[Wastelands Warrior]

With an exotic engine come exotic problems...:)

[iTurbo]

With an exotic engine come exotic problems...:)

Oh man tell me about it. It's really not too bad but some things have been way frustrating. She's getting there though.

[johnl]

Mine comes on and off without removing the gears. It is a bit tricky. IIRC, first get it loose, then lift slightly, then move it toward the driver's side slightly so it can get out from under the inside edge of the gears, then lift with the driver's side slightly higher. In thinking about it, you can't put the rods through the cams to time the cams in the first place with the valve cover on, so it has to be able to go on with the gears in place.

[Wastelands Warrior]

Oh man tell me about it. It's really not too bad but some things have been way frustrating. She's getting there though.

Dayum that is pure engine porn!!! Looks great!!!

[Reaper1]

Yeah, getting the VC off the Masi can be a pain. John's method seems about right. You sure that your engine has the correct pulleys on it? The Masi cam pulleys *look* the same as 8V ones, but they are ~.200" narrower because of this issue! (did you know? ;) )

[iTurbo]

Yeah, getting the VC off the Masi can be a pain. John's method seems about right. You sure that your engine has the correct pulleys on it? The Masi cam pulleys *look* the same as 8V ones, but they are ~.200" narrower because of this issue! (did you know? ;) )

Oh man I totally forgot about that! The do have '974' stamped in them like a regular turbo square tooth gear, but I will measure them and compare them with some other Masi 16v sprockets and 8v sprockets. I also have a pair of Fidanza adjustable cam sprockets for the Masi 16v that I got from Todd so I'll have to see what's what.

Another idea I thought of would be to remove the rubber grommets for the valve cover studs and that might give me a little more wiggle room to get it up and out of there.

[2.216VTurbo]

If they are not the 16V gears, wiggle all you want but the VC wont clear them. I had thought the Masi gears were .130 narrower but Reaper is usually pretty right on with his numbers so... Engine bay is looking sweet Jeremy:nod:

Also, not sure if the design was changed in the later spark plug wires but a couple of the ealy sets I had would 'push off' the plugs when everything got hot creating a miss. My fix was to use some sharp end nip pliers to trim the 'hats' flat effectively moving them 3/8 closer to the plug when snapped into place. RDI may have made a change to later sets, not sure.

[iTurbo]

OK, so I measured the cam gears that are currently on the SL's Masi 16v engine and they are 1.105" wide. I then measured an 8v square tooth cam gear and it was 1.200" wide. Both cam gears have '974' stamped in them.

So it looks like my 16v cam gears are only about .095" thinner. I'll have to look around and see if I can find some thinner ones off another engine I think.


EDIT: I found a 2nd set of Masi 16v cam gears and they were slightly wider at 1.110" and I also measured the Fidanza adjustable cam gears I got from Todd and they are 1.105".

EDIT #2: FINALLY I was able to get the darn thing off. It is so tight it scrapes the valve cover on the exhaust cam gear. I was kinda bummed because I've refinished it wish wrinkle black, but oh well, nobody will see it anyway. Man it is TIGHT! Removing the grommets doesn't seem to help at all.

[johnl]

Maybe you could trim 10 or 20 thou off the interfering part of the valve cover with a mill file?

[Reaper1]

Jeremy, thanks for measuring the gears! Now I know it's more like .100"!

I ran into the same thing with my VC. The wrinkle was enough to make it interfere! LOL I wonder...could you "shim" the gear out just a little?

[iTurbo]

Jeremy, thanks for measuring the gears! Now I know it's more like .100"!

I ran into the same thing with my VC. The wrinkle was enough to make it interfere! LOL I wonder...could you "shim" the gear out just a little?

No problem, I'd love to help anybody in any way I can and I'm thankful for all the help I've gotten from the forum so far (huge!)

Now keep in mind I haven't got mine running yet, but I have done the timing belt and turned the engine over several times via wrench and it looks like another .100" milled off the inside edge of the exhaust cam gear wouldn't be a problem before running into timing belt wear. A spacer could probably work too, but it's really the inside diameter of the gear that is the problem. But, now that I know how to go through the motions of getting the cover R&R'd it really isn't so bad.

I gotta say, (even though it isn't running yet), I really like the new valve cover gasket that was made by joelzip. It fit very nicely and has little 'nubs' to keep it in place in the groove while installing it (including the spark plug O-rings). The half-moon pieces seem very sturdy and stock-like and fit perfectly into the grooves in the cylinder head. A+!

[Reaper1]

Agreed on the VC gasket! I have one on the engine slated to go into the TC and I have the exact review you do! Excellent product! :thumb:

[Holset8vOmni]

You can loosen the cam gear bolts and slide the gears outward without taking completely off. It will give you enough room and you won't need to redue timing. I have done this. Works great. Good luck

[iTurbo]

You can loosen the cam gear bolts and slide the gears outward without taking completely off. It will give you enough room and you won't need to redue timing. I have done this. Works great. Good luck

That would work great *but*, how do you retorque the cam gear bolt? I have always used a torque wrench and a large hook/spanner that wraps around the gear and engages the teeth to stop it from spinning. With the belt installed, it's just not possible and I've never felt comfortable putting an impact wrench on it.

[masterjr33]

impact it.. just dont kill it..

[4 l-bodies]

Jeremy,
I made this tool up like 20 years ago. Similar to the factory tool. Pics in FSM as well. Fits all 4 and 6 hole cam gears. Took like 45 minutes to make.
Todd

[iTurbo]

Jeremy,
I made this tool up like 20 years ago. Similar to the factory tool. Pics in FSM as well. Fits all 4 and 6 bolt cam gears. Took like 45 minutes to make.
Todd

*forehead smack*, that would be perfect Todd! The hook spanner wrench set that I got from Harbor Freight years ago has worked well on the TI/TII/TIII, but not so convenient on the Masi 16v. Thanks for all your help.

[GLHNSLHT2]

people torque the cam gear bolt? hmm. I've always just put it on tight till the engine starts to turn.

[iTurbo]

people torque the cam gear bolt? hmm. I've always just put it on tight till the engine starts to turn.

I had an '89 Shadow ES that snapped a cam once. After I towed it home I noticed the cam bolt was finger tight and the cam key was chewed up as if it were cast out of milk chocolate. I've always been careful about that since.

And yeah, I'm one of those guys that's religious about following the FSM specs as much as possible.

[lightbulb010]

I take a piece of wood and drill three holes in a line. I put 2 bolts through the outer holes and make the middle hole big enough for the socket. Basically the same thing 4 l-bodies made but wooden. I only use it to loosen the bolt though. I usually just use the impact to tighten it. I can understand why you are careful though. If I had an engine like that I would be too!

[J&H Ryan]

I was talking with Andrew at SDAC, has a [drop (top) dead gorgeous] 89 TC with the new VC gasket and its leak free after at least 500 miles, and that was used twice. He installed it, drove it but it was loud so he shimmed the lifters and reinstalled. No leaks and he drove it to SE mich from WI.

[iTurbo]

I was talking with Andrew at SDAC, has a [drop (top) dead gorgeous] 89 TC with the new VC gasket and its leak free after at least 500 miles, and that was used twice. He installed it, drove it but it was loud so he shimmed the lifters and reinstalled. No leaks and he drove it to SE mich from WI.

Hey Ryan, I still have both Masi 16v engines that I bought from you waiting in the wings.

The one that I put in my SL came from Mark Christensen in MN (or Ohio?). Anyways, I put the new VC gasket on it from joelzip and it is holding up great. I've removed and reinstalled the valve cover several times getting the cam timing right (Masi newb here..) It's holding up great!

I saw the pictures you posted of the TC on Facebook. I like seeing those because I'm trying as hard as I can for a factory installed look.

I must have got lucky with this Masi 16v from Mark in the SL....it is very quiet and hauls ---! It's quieter than any 8v head I've ever had. I have it set at 5 psi via a granger valve and I honestly think it's faster than the old TII setup with 12 psi. Compared to the TII, it wants to rev to the moon!

[J&H Ryan]

Nice! I'm a big fan of going 16v as well. I want to do a Masi car one day. I'd like to do something crazy like a RWD conversion to a Lancer/Lebaron GTS or a Horizon. Here's some more pics that I took of the bone stock TC:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/BooGTS/DSC00079_zpskf4rec6w.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/BooGTS/media/DSC00079_zpskf4rec6w.jpg.html)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/BooGTS/DSC00481_zpsegtpf4ko.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/BooGTS/media/DSC00481_zpsegtpf4ko.jpg.html)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/BooGTS/DSC00083_zpsfvshfwcj.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/BooGTS/media/DSC00083_zpsfvshfwcj.jpg.html)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/BooGTS/DSC00487_zpsvaxclxv6.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/BooGTS/media/DSC00487_zpsvaxclxv6.jpg.html)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/BooGTS/DSC00482_zps6rkneble.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/BooGTS/media/DSC00482_zps6rkneble.jpg.html)

edit: had my camera on the wrong manual setting for some of the pics, so they're crap from a photography standpoint, still might be helpful for documentation purposes.

[2.216VTurbo]

That's a well detailed engine bay for sure:clap: Knowing a thing or two about the Masi 16V motors I'm gonna weigh in with some obsertvations:

See how the fuel lines go over the VC instead of off to the side? Early motor, non CB. Same with the strut tower covers, big plastic Frisbees = non common block built before July of '88.

The upper Rad to thermostat housing is aftermarket, It's a nice piece I have a couple myself:) Same with theomo to heater control valve, aftermarket and good quality.

This Guy has replaced his ABS brake accumulator, OE ones pop their diaphragm internally and don't hold the 2800PSI required for proper ABS to function. Also has flushed the fluid because the Resiviour is nice and clean.

Aftermarket RDI plug wires, much better than 30 year old OE:nod:

All and all a nicely maintained and upgraded TC Masi:clap: I just wish I liked purple_ I mean Royal Cabernet:lol:

[J&H Ryan]

Hi Alan,

Yup, you're spot on about the non-CB. I'll let Andrew know about this thread/link it to him so he knows about the thermostat stuff. Car has wood inside, which apparently is odd on a non-CB. Might be one of the last non-CBs and they had got the wood in at that point?

How could you tell the accum has been replaced? Rick D said to replace it asap, seemingly thinking it was original. For the fluids, Andrew went though that car pretty well when he bought it. 30k one owner car.

Keeping an eye out on these cars, he asked if I'd be interested in one, I said yes, for the deal you got for sure, but I'd really want the black interior. There were 10 made I found out later. Don't think that's going to happen.

[Reaper1]

My early '89 has wood interior as well. They used to sell the conversion kit, so there's no guarantee that the car hasn't been changed (unless original owner can say for sure).

That accumulator does look stock. I agree...replace it...SOON!

[2.216VTurbo]

I guess my memory is going, I thought the stock ones had the yellow printing highlights in the label?, I think I have it backwards tho, red/white is stock, some yellow is replacement. Easy test for an accumulator tho, with car idling depress brake pedal quickly a few times, a good accumulator should have enough reserve for 6-8 depressions before the yellow brake warning lights on the dash. A weak accumulator will light it after 1-5 pedal depressions.

[Reaper1]

I guess my memory is going, I thought the stock ones had the yellow printing highlights in the label?, I think I have it backwards tho, red/white is stock, some yellow is replacement. Easy test for an accumulator tho, with car idling depress brake pedal quickly a few times, a good accumulator should have enough reserve for 6-8 depressions before the yellow brake warning lights on the dash. A weak accumulator will light it after 1-5 pedal depressions.

I'm fairly sure the accumulator on the Teves unit I have from the 16V car is stock...definitely red and white sticker.

Since I've never had any good experience with the stock accumulator I can only relay what I've read through my research, but the pedal test is a general indicator, but apparently if you pay attention to how much fluid is needed to pump the accumulator up by watching the level in the reservoir, that's a better indicator of whether it's bad. I think I found that information on the Reatta forums.