Fel-Pro .020 head shim

[enduro74]

So the machine shop messed my block up and decked it too far and I have to use a Fel-Pro shim. I ordered one from rockauto but when it showed up it has like "waves" and is not perfectly flat. Is this normal? I attached a pic of the worst part. I also was wondering if gasket sealer is needed with it. It says to use it with a gasket sealer on the package but I was always under the impression that the copper gasket sealers and stuff where kind of "snake oil" products

Thanks for any input!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_BgxJ9sGaEkaTVKQ2NMUl9YRTMtRW1IUWtCS244U GhNTzRr

[OmniLuvr]

attachment didn't work...

anyways, how much did they shave off the block? is it a 2.2 or 2.5? what head are you running? and what pistons are you using? how much boost do you plan on running?

I have never been a big fan off head shims, but in your case it might work, but still don't like it. what material is the head shim, copper?

ive used the copper spray before, might be necessary to seal up the shim to the block?

[johnl]

How far "proud" of the deck are the pistons? And which head are you running?

[enduro74]

This is for an N/A build. The Block was supposed to be decked .060 but they did a crap job on it. Pistons are anywhere between .036 and .040 above the deck. The block was shaved at an angle so the piston protrudes more on the back side than the front. I will never go to that shop again. The pistons where .030 below the block deck and I had .010 milled off the rim of the dish on them so they should be .020 out of the block which is where I wanted them for compression but the shop took off between .070 and .080 depending on which side of the block you go off of so I just need to shim the head so the pistons don't hit it. I just spent 80 bucks having the head milled down and I have hours of work into polishing the head so the last thing I want to do is have the pistons smashing into the head.

Oh also yes the Head shim is copper

[83scamp]

This is for an N/A build. The Block was supposed to be decked .060 but they did a crap job on it. Pistons are anywhere between .036 and .040 above the deck. The block was shaved at an angle so the piston protrudes more on the back side than the front. I will never go to that shop again. The pistons where .030 below the block deck and I had .010 milled off the rim of the dish on them so they should be .020 out of the block which is where I wanted them for compression but the shop took off between .070 and .080 depending on which side of the block you go off of so I just need to shim the head so the pistons don't hit it. I just spent 80 bucks having the head milled down and I have hours of work into polishing the head so the last thing I want to do is have the pistons smashing into the head.

Oh also yes the Head shim is copper

I would say the machine shop owes you a new block. I certainly wouldn't have paid for the work. Don't accept shoddy work. At the very least file a complaint with the BBB.

This is also why I generally use a CC to pay for work like that. IF you find an issue after the fact, and the shop isn't willing to make it right, you can always dispute the charges...

[enduro74]

Yeah I had the work done 3 months ago since it has been an over the winter build so I'm sure they would basically tell me to get lost. My fault for not just buying a mill so I can do it myself. About the only way to get anything done right now a days. I suppose I should still call them and if they won't take a look at it file a complaint

[OmniLuvr]

dang! well that sucks! with that much taken off I'm even kind of worried about timing belt being too long? and if the deck surface is at that much of an angle id also worry about the head bolts binding/not seating properly, and even proper sealing of the gasket?

seriously, I would file a complaint, that's serious bull$hit! I'm thinking that block might even be wasted? do you have special pistons in it? was it also bored to match different pistons?

I'm just trying to figure out how much you have into this block, and if it would honestly be a better idea to cut your losses and go with a different block? there might be someone in your area with a spare block for cheap?

what year is the block?

[shadow88]

Staying on topic, I have used the copper shim, with mopar gasket maker spray. The pink stuff that you spray on your buddies' arm hair just for fun. It makes the shim a one time use because it'll be mangled if you gotta take the head off. It does the trick,.. Make sure you clay the combustion chambers to check clearance. Be sure to leave room for rod "stretch" of about 0.020

[enduro74]

Timing belt won't be an issue. With ~.130 taken off between the block and the head I will be able to use a timing belt that has 1 less tooth and then I just have to get offset keys for the camshaft to keep it from being retarded or advanced. With the 1 less tooth I am not exactly sure what effect it will have on cam timing.
As far as rod stretch, without the shim my gasket max crush is .048 which would leave me .008 clearance and that is why I am wanting to shim it.

So anyways my only other question was weather or not the head shims have some warpage to them normally. There are no bends, just waves in the shim so I think I could flatten it out?

Also which side of the gasket is best to put the shim on or does it matter? I would think it would seal better against the aluminum head but I guess with gasket maker it really wouldn't matter?

[tryingbe]

a timing belt that has 1 less tooth

That has belt been out of production since.... 20 years ago.

Get a new block.

[johnl]

No need for one tooth shorter belt if you shim head back to stock distance from crank. And, yes, now that you've milled it back to square, all you need is the copper shim gasket and the offset cam keys to get the cam timing right. The gasket ought to be soft/annealed out of its box, except for work hardening from the punch press, so, why not take a rosebud to it to anneal it and make sure it flattens out. Spray Copper Coat works for me when I use and reuse Cometic multi layer stainless steel gaskets.

[wheming]

The copper felpro shims are easily bent and it took two tries ordering before i felt i got an accetable one.
Mine had some crease from something heavy riding over it.

[djm3452004]

I went through (2) as well, one from an auto parts store,the other from an online source. Bothwere bent, but the one less-severely than the other, so I ended up returningthe first one. The parts store guys werelike “what’s the big deal”, and I remember saying something like “you wouldn’taccept a creased head gasket, right? “

Would they both have squished flat and been fine? Probably, but why take the chance?

Dave

[wheming]

The other option is to get a Cometic headgasket. You can choose from several thicknesses more than stock, and you can get custom thickness that you specify.
And with that option you end up with what should be a much better headgasket.

[enduro74]

Well rockauto sent me another one. This one was much older and the cardboard was really thick so it was perfectly flat when it arrived. I would get a cometic head gasket but 9 bucks vs 100. My engine gets tore down about once a year so I'd rather try to stay cheap on the gaskets but if it does become an issue I will keep the cometic in mind. Are the cometic gaskets normally reusable a few times?