PT lifter shimming question

[marc]

I'm doing the PT lifter mod on my Daytona (with a 89 turbo ll engine). I did it more for quietness than a performance upgrade (but I'll take the performance too!).

Anyhow can anyone tell me what's the distance between the beer cap part of the lifter to the bottom of the rocker arm is usually? I've read you should shim the PT lifter up .125 of a inch which I have done. But due to the machining tolerance of the head you may want to correct this tolerance when doing the PT lifter mod.

[4 l-bodies]

Marc,
I've installed many sets. I always have just installed the .120 something thousands Williams washer and then checked the dry lash. The FSM calls for .024-060. I usually end of around .035-.040. You also want to check to make sure you have a minimum of .050 clearance between top of retainer and bottom ears of follower. Check this at base circle and full lobe lift. Checking retainer clearance with a solid follower is best, but many people don't have that luxury. I've never had to do anything else besides install the Williams washer with any factory sized base circle camshafts installed. Sometimes you need to grind ears down a bit on followers, especially if you have aftermarket valves with altered tip heights (like Menegons's Manley valves). Hope any if this info helps you.
Todd

[marc]

Thank you Todd, that information is very helpful.

[mikes87t2]

So i am installing a TU R5 roller cam and the PT lifters. It appears to me that a .125 washers are available from williams washers and it would work for most of you. Question I have is couldn't you measure the the body of the stock lifter then add a spacer to the PT lifter to gain the same height of the stock lifter and be done with it? Just curious as that was how I was going to do it then figured I better research this first.

I have a 87 CSX running a ported swirl head with +1 valves Thanks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thedon809]

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think you shim them too high or the feed hole is too high up?

[4 l-bodies]

Mikes87t2,
Better also check the clearance of bottom of retainer/keeper and top of valve guide seal. When you change things like lobe lift of cam, have aftermarket guides, retainers, different valve stem heights, seals, etc. clearance can get changed a lot! I've seen very little room on some at full lobe lift with higher lift camshafts. To answer your question, it really isn't all that important what the length of the body of lash adjuster is. The oil hole does need to be covered though. What is important is the length of travel, and the dry lash setting. You want the lash adjuster to be centered in it's travel as much as possible. That is why FSM gives you a dry lash spec.
Also make sure you are using some sort of hardened spacer under the lash adjuster. People that have done this mod before you have found their spacers have been stuck in lash bores during disassembly. Even stainless washers supplied with reground camshafts have been known to deform. They aren't fun getting out when this happens.
Todd

[EaZyE426]

Thank you Todd, that information is very helpful.
This

Unless something has changed. You can not use PT lifters with a regrind cam. If you purchased a new blank for your cam when you ordered it, you're good to go. But if it was a regrind, you can not shim the lifter high enough without cutting off the feed hole.

[tryingbe]

Mikes87t2,
lso make sure you are using some sort of hardened spacer under the lash adjuster. People that have done this mod before you have found their spacers have been stuck in lash bores during disassembly. Even stainless washers supplied with reground camshafts have been known to deform. They aren't fun getting out when this happens.
Todd

Yup.

Guess which one is new and which is used.

http://thelostartof.net/tryingbe/dodge/omniproject/2016/pt%20washers.jpg

[thedon809]

I just removed the PT's from my junk head and the bottom washers we're all stuck. Said screw it I'll get some new ones.

[wheming]

I know this had to be mentioned before, possiblly in one of the other threads.
But the lifter itself has a tapered edge, and i assume the lifter bore does too (don't have a spare head to check) therefore properly sizing the washer "spacer" to fit in the lowest part.

If the washer isn't tapered also, the washers could be getting distorted from that shape.
Something to be aware of.

At one time i thought there was a source for a properly sized and tapered washer spacer .

[Aries_Turbo]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?25410-I-found-the-PERFECT-PT-lifter-shim&highlight=washer

[The Pope]

The washer I always used from Fasteners is grade 8 and doesn't deform to the aluminum bore. They are smaller than the bore for OD and press the bottom washer into the lifter bore and sit flat. The bore is chamfered when machined the lower washer will often stick. But normally I have about half stick not all of them and never is the washer deformed.

The PT shouldn't be shimmed up for regrind. Really a great excuse not to screw up valve train geometry and get a new cam. This high hole also means oil enters much higher. We know that the tip bleeds air but he oil hole location helps a lot too.

[tryingbe]

The washer I always used from Fasteners is grade 8 and doesn't deform to the aluminum bore.

These two washers were bought from you. One new, one used.

http://thelostartof.net/tryingbe/dodge/omniproject/2016/pt%20washers.jpg

[The Pope]

The first couple years were grade 5 and softer. I have old grade 8 gold washers that haven't crushed. Grade 8 hardened washers can't maul flat like that in an aluminum bore. The force it takes to crush that gold washer would shove the washer through the lifter bore. Many people are experimenting with grade 2 washers and I have even seen aluminum shims. It isn't possible for a hardened grade 8 to crush in an aluminum bore without going through the bore. As far as the lower washer mauling into the bottom of the bore. I have them do that with less than 100 miles on them. The lower washer looks like a grade 5 I stopped selling in the beginning. See the taper on the edges. The 5s are not round and were not fitting the bores. The grade 8, the gold washers are plated and the hold a tight tolerance. This goes back to the first year I sold them with lifters. The first sets actually were fine. Then 6 months later the next run didn't fit and were swapped to the plated washer.

[turbovanman²]

This

Unless something has changed. You can not use PT lifters with a regrind cam. If you purchased a new blank for your cam when you ordered it, you're good to go. But if it was a regrind, you can not shim the lifter high enough without cutting off the feed hole.

That is incorrect, it all depends on how much is left of the base circle. I ran PT's with a stage 2 cam many years ago, but it was close as the oil hole was just below the top of the bore.