Help with wheels/tires please!

[Mudman]

Hey all,

I'm looking at purchasing a new set of wheels/tires for my '89 LS. I really would like some help from the TM'ers who have updated their rim styles, gone with larger sizes, figured out offsets necessary, etc.

Here's the size I'm really hoping to make work. *215/45R17*
All of the rims I've looked at so far are 7.5" wide with an offset of 45.

Has anyone run this size before? This is where I'm truly lost as I have no accurate way to test/measure if these dimensions will work with steering lock-to-lock and with suspension travel thrown into the mix. Below I'll link to the rim styles I'm interested in and tires. Granted, I'm not rich, so some budgeting needed to be done, though after much research I am happy with my options. I'll try to post a couple picks of the Lancer tonight or tomorrow for visual reference (for your viewing pleasure, my fellow boost abusers)

Wheel options 1&2 are the same design, different color option.

1: http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findWheelDetail.do?bp=5-100&fl=&yr=1989&pc=22821&counter=0&wd=17&rw=7.5&vid=007476

2: http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findWheelDetail.do?bp=5-100&fl=&yr=1989&pc=70083&counter=2&wd=17&rw=7.5&vid=007476

3: http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findWheelDetail.do?bp=5-100&fl=&yr=1989&pc=45372&counter=2&wd=17&rw=7.5&vid=007476

Tire options:

1: http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findTireDetail.do?ra=searchTiresByVehicleAndSize.d o&fl=&yr=1989&pc=19454&counter=0&ar=45&rd=17&vid=007476&cs=215

2: http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findTireDetail.do?ra=searchTiresByVehicleAndSize.d o&fl=&yr=1989&pc=11248&counter=0&ar=45&rd=17&vid=007476&cs=215
(I was very concerned at quality of the Sentury's, but after some research and consumer reviews, it appears these are actually a great value for the price)

Best regards,

Zach

[GLHNSLHT2]

I've seen the stock 6.5" Shelby Lancer rims listed at 35mm offset and that would explain why they sit so flush. Stock LS rims at 6" wide should be 40mm offset. 6.5" crabs are 40mm offset. Going to a 45mm off set moves the wheel in 5mm. Not going to allow you to run the right negative camber so going wider with that setup won't help. You'll want at least a 35mm offset.

Honestly, if you kept the same width and offset wheel with a good tire and the alignment set properly you'll get a much larger handling increase than just shoving on a wider wheel/tire package. I've made these cars with 175/75 R14 snow tires corner much harder than one with 205/50 15's could even dream of with the right alignment.

Read this:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/knowledge.php?title=Suspension-and-Steering-Systems:Alignment-Specifications

As far as tires for a summer tire look at the BFG G-force Sports. Sticky, cheap (relatively), lasts a decent amount of time. DO NOT USE ON SNOW! :)

[Mudman]

Thank you for the information on the offset! I'm very new to detailed wheel dimensions and whatnot. Definitely needing the help of the more experienced. And I'll look to see what kind of prices I can find on those tires! Thanks for the tip.

There are two parts as to why I want to go wider on the tires and larger on the rims.

The rims...well, let's be honest, it's for vanity. I really like the look of the H-body with a little more metal in the fender well. I've had this car for almost exactly 10 years now...and I want to drop the dough and get that "stance".

And the tires? Well, I have 205 width on there now, and although it grips decently enough in the corners, I have almost zero traction if I spool past 5-7psi in first gear - among other acceleration traction issues. I would like more rubber on the ground for those low-gear pulls. In no way am I disregarding your experience and expertise, I just don't see how any narrower than what I have now will be beneficial for me.

Whadda-ya-say, GLHNSLHT2? (thanks again for your input).

[contraption22]

Here is a great tool for comparing wheel dimensions and tire sizes.

Put your current specs on the left, your new specs on the right, and it will spit out a good estimate of your clearances.

https://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

[GLHNSLHT2]

Wider tires will make a small improvement but not as much as getting a good compound. Also having the alignment set right helps a bunch for straight line speed too. As the car lifts the camber goes positive. So if you have some negative camber in the front the tires will sit at zero camber (FLAT ON THE GROUND) when you accelerate. I'd also get the Energy Suspension A-arm bushings for the front end as they keep the toe from changing which helps with traction as well.

[Mudman]

I have installed all new PolyBushings for my front and rear suspension linkage later last year, so I should have plenty of rigidity there ha. I will be getting my alignment according to that post you linked me to when I have the front end put back together. Currently getting new hub assemblies put on my steering knuckles.

I've recently installed new shocks and struts as well so my suspension should hold it together at this point. I currently have Falken Ziex (205/55R16) tires on there right now, can't remember the exact line I got, but they were really nice when new. Still 'okay' but they've hardened up a bit and don't have a lot of tread left.

Once I get her back together and aligned properly I should be able to tell if I still feel wider tires will be beneficial to me.

Those BFG tires look nice, but they are a bit outside of my price range. I was hoping to get some budget "UHP" tires to start with and upgrade later down the road with really nice rubber. I don't know much about the two tires that I linked to in my original post, other than I've had a good experience with Hankook Ventus tires in the past, but they both seemed to score well in performance reviews in acceleration, braking, wet performance, and decent lateral G's.

Are 215 tires really that ridiculous for our cars? I've had an older Ventus line and those Falkens on the Lancer, and have always felt that a smidge wider would help performance characteristics all around. We'll see how she feels once I get an alignment that isn't the "stock recommended" crap. I always felt that the stock specs were poor, but I never knew exactly how to improve upon it so just accepted it as par for the course.

Thanks again guys,
Zach

[contraption22]

Tires really make all the difference in the world. I know some people will spend much money and and many hours on the greatest parts for their suspension and then compromise on tires. It's like training for a a marathon and showing up to race in bedroom slippers.

[Mudman]

I totally agree, they are the direct connection between your car and the road. That, in itself, should be taken very seriously. My bank cannot take things that seriously at the moment haha. With the expense of upgrading my rims, I just can NOT afford top-line rubber at this time. I can, however, get my wheels and tires of the appropriate size, and then save to get the best rubber available. If I had it in my ability, I would not skimp on any parts that ever saw my Lancer. Sadly, the world is expensive.

[Mudman]

Here is a great tool for comparing wheel dimensions and tire sizes.

Put your current specs on the left, your new specs on the right, and it will spit out a good estimate of your clearances.

https://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

By the way, thank you for this link. It is incredibly helpful and I've already gained a better understanding of wheel geometry just by playing with it. It's been bookmarked =]

[GLHNSLHT2]

No, 215's aren't rediculous. 225's aren't out of the question either as they came stock on the CS and ShelbyZ daytona. Some have shoved 245's under the car but I never hear how much negative camber they can run which probably isn't much and the 245's are then doing nothing.

[Mudman]

Okayyy. I would love for you guys to take a look at what I have come up with. Below is a link of wheel sizing compared between OEM and my target wheel setup.

http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp?item=Wheel-Tire-size-comparer&sw1=205&ar1=60&bd1=15&rw1=6.0&et1=40&sw2=215&ar2=50&bd2=17&rw2=7.5&et2=30&text1=&text2=

I don't plan on really ever going larger or wider on the tires, so if this setup actually will work as it says, I will be a happy camper.

The chart comparison says that this will fit on my car just dandy, assuming I have about a half inch of room for my wheel to stick out the fender, and I'm pretty sure that I do. I wanted to get some experienced members to take a look and see what they think. Thanks for your help guys!
(This is for an '89 LS)

-Zach

[GLHNSLHT2]

Go up to a 225/50 17"x7.5 and go with a 35mm offset. I say this because the high performance daytona's came with a 225/50 15 with a 40mm offset. And they'll clear all the suspension components with all the street camber you want to run just fine. So if you go with a 225/50 17" and a 35mm offset, your suspension clearance stays the same as the 225/50 15's as well as your overall height to the stock 205/60's

[Mudman]

Hey GLH,

Just to disarm any possible reactions, these questions are not arguments. I just want to gain a better understanding of where you're coming from =] When I compare a 205/60R15 with a 225/50R17, I end up with a wheel that is 1.2" taller than OEM. Seeing as the wheel is then taller, wouldn't this make a larger difference of travel distance at the top of the wheel when setting neg camber? Since the top of the wheel is above the pivoting point of the suspension adjustment, the top of a taller wheel would theoretically travel further for the same amount of camber adjustment, coming in contact with the front strut earlier.

My current wheels didn't have a lot of clearance at the strut already, and I'd be concerned with stuffing a larger wheel in there. Did those Daytona's have the later style hub assemblies? I've heard they produce better suspension geometry and I'm wondering if this was part of the reason they ran those sizes? (That last bit is completely uneducated and I admit it, just a thought.)

With the +35 offset, the calculator shows that I would be 5mm (.2") closer to the suspension, which is honestly enough to negate my ability to set good camber I think.

The problem I'm having with all of this, is that my current wheels are 15" unidentified Mopar rims. I believe they came off of a mini-van and have a double spoke design with center caps that completely cover the lugs. They're 6" wide but I do not know the offset.

It's going to be about a month before I can drop the cash for my wheels/tires, so I'm trying to learn as much as possible in order to make an educated decision. Thank you again for all your help and input.

-Zach

[Mudman]

I believe I have decided which tires I will be getting at this point. After much, MUCH research, I believe that BFGoodrich g-Force COMP-2 A/S will be a great match up for my needs. This is my daily driver, and although I also want performance, I am more than willing to sacrifice a little dry-weather 'stick' for all-year safety. Plus, these are high quality tires with great performance all around. The price is a bit higher than I was shooting for originally, but a little extra saving time (and some more babying my current rubber) should remedy that.

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findTireDetail.do?ra=filterTireProducts.do&fl=&pc=29873&counter=0&ar=50&rd=17&cs=215

-Zach

[contraption22]

I believe I have decided which tires I will be getting at this point. After much, MUCH research, I believe that BFGoodrich g-Force COMP-2 A/S will be a great match up for my needs. This is my daily driver, and although I also want performance, I am more than willing to sacrifice a little dry-weather 'stick' for all-year safety. Plus, these are high quality tires with great performance all around. The price is a bit higher than I was shooting for originally, but a little extra saving time (and some more babying my current rubber) should remedy that.

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findTireDetail.do?ra=filterTireProducts.do&fl=&pc=29873&counter=0&ar=50&rd=17&cs=215

-Zach


I can say that that is a very good choice if you must stick with an all-season tire. I did ride & drive with BFG on the Comp 2 A/S launch and back to back in the dry and wet with the segment-leading tire (the Conti DWS 06), the BFG did everything just a bit better.

[Mudman]

So the rim design I'd like to get only comes in +45 offset that I can see. To make this work, I'll need at least a 10mm wheel spacer. I have never looked into wheel spacers before.

Could somebody please point me in the right direction? Do any of our vendors have quality wheel spacers? Is there any chance this could cause problems/issues with the vehicle? Any help is appreciated.

-Zach

[DevoBuzz]

http://rbryant.freeshell.org/misc_products.htm

Fellow turbo mopar member rich Bryant sells 9.5mm spacers.

[contraption22]

10mm isn't too bad, but you'll want to make sure you have good thread engagement on your lug nuts.

[Rrider]

I was able to run 10's with some small diameter steel lug nuts that seat further inward and got full engagement. Regular lug nuts would not fully engage as the threads did not begin right at the ends of the nut and they didnt seat far enough in the wheel. IIRC they were the inexpensive autozone zinc plated shorties that ended up working for mine.

[Mudman]

Thanks for your input guys! This is very promising, and I'm one final piece of information away from being able to accurately calculate all my clearances, etc. etc.

One last question, and please ignore my complete ignorance (as stated I've never dealt with spacers before). However, I wanted to push my rear wheels out by the same amount I do my front. What options do I have to mount a spacer up to my rear drums?

If it makes entirely zero difference in handling characteristics, and I don't imagine it making a large difference really, then I might not even worry about it.

-Zach

[Mudman]

At this point I'll probably keep posting my activity on this project for those who are interested in following. I may have a couple more questions here and there, but it looks like I know what needs to be done now.

I've found these rims, brand name of "White Diamond", and I can NOT find any information on them really. No reviews, quality information, nothing. But they have a +35 offset instead of +45 and that is PERFECT for what I need. I was reeeeeally tempted to get the white ones, as the Lancer is white with black trim (more blacked out than OEM paint scheme, however). I just can't bring myself to spend that much money and end up finding out that the whites aren't even close to the same shade as each other. I'll probably be going with the black/machined version.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/17x7-5-White-Diamond-WD-0029-5x100-114-3-Black-Machined-Custom-Wheels-35mm-/121906000359?hash=item1c6229f1e7:g:1-8AAOSwjVVV0Tpk&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/17x7-5-White-Diamond-WD-0029-5x100-114-3-White-with-Black-Accent-Wheels-35mm-/111911705453?hash=item1a0e751b6d:g:8OsAAOSwNSxVWP5 6&vxp=mtr

I personally really like the looks of these rims for an H-body.

-Zach

[91DSX]

FYI, on my 91' G-Body, I'm running 17x8 5Zigen wheels with a +35mm offset and 245/40/17 tires (full Koni/Eibach susp.)

Finding the right wheels proved rather challenging, I wanted something lightweight with all the right specs, I discovered the Audi TT has our same bolt pattern and desired off-set.

[DevoBuzz]

I was able to run 10's with some small diameter steel lug nuts that seat further inward and got full engagement. Regular lug nuts would not fully engage as the threads did not begin right at the ends of the nut and they didnt seat far enough in the wheel. IIRC they were the inexpensive autozone zinc plated shorties that ended up working for mine.

I used them on my pontiac. You want conical seat with extended shank/thread.

[MoparStephen]

They look nice. I am somewhat in the market for new wheels for my 87 Shelby Z.

[GLHNSLHT2]

FYI, on my 91' G-Body, I'm running 17x8 5Zigen wheels with a +35mm offset and 245/40/17 tires (full Koni/Eibach susp.)

Finding the right wheels proved rather challenging, I wanted something lightweight with all the right specs, I discovered the Audi TT has our same bolt pattern and desired off-set.


How much negative camber can you run up front or are running up front without hitting the strut?

[GLHNSLHT2]

Hey GLH,

Just to disarm any possible reactions, these questions are not arguments. I just want to gain a better understanding of where you're coming from =] When I compare a 205/60R15 with a 225/50R17, I end up with a wheel that is 1.2" taller than OEM. Seeing as the wheel is then taller, wouldn't this make a larger difference of travel distance at the top of the wheel when setting neg camber? Since the top of the wheel is above the pivoting point of the suspension adjustment, the top of a taller wheel would theoretically travel further for the same amount of camber adjustment, coming in contact with the front strut earlier.

My current wheels didn't have a lot of clearance at the strut already, and I'd be concerned with stuffing a larger wheel in there. Did those Daytona's have the later style hub assemblies? I've heard they produce better suspension geometry and I'm wondering if this was part of the reason they ran those sizes? (That last bit is completely uneducated and I admit it, just a thought.)

With the +35 offset, the calculator shows that I would be 5mm (.2") closer to the suspension, which is honestly enough to negate my ability to set good camber I think.

The problem I'm having with all of this, is that my current wheels are 15" unidentified Mopar rims. I believe they came off of a mini-van and have a double spoke design with center caps that completely cover the lugs. They're 6" wide but I do not know the offset.

It's going to be about a month before I can drop the cash for my wheels/tires, so I'm trying to learn as much as possible in order to make an educated decision. Thank you again for all your help and input.

-Zach

You're right, a 50 series is too tall. I either brain farted or fat fingered it. A 40 or 45 series in the 225 would be ideal. the 40 series only has race rubber on tire rack so a 45 is only .3" taller overall.

The 225's on the daytona's were all early 89 and earlier cars so no they didn't run the later hub assemblies that just move the ball joint location down.


Maybe if you post a pic of your current wheels we can tell you more about them.

No arguments, ask all the questions you want. You at least seem to have the ability to learn and make informed decisions unlike some people on the internet. :)

[Mudman]

Here's a pic of the Mopar wheels I currently have. If anybody can help identify them, and the offset, that would allow me to make some realistic judgement on clearances.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/garage_attachment.php?id=2995


Aaand here's the much delayed snaps of the Lancer. Be easy on me, I painted it with house paint and 20 year old spray equipment six years ago baha

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/garage_attachment.php?id=2996

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/garage_attachment.php?id=2997

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/garage_attachment.php?id=2998

[Mudman]

Oh and I called the source for those "White Diamond" wheels. They're "between 25-30 pounds" each. That made me sad...I mean this isn't a race car, it's my grocery getter, but that seems on the heavy side to me for rotating mass. Konig Illusions are an option that I could afford and make work fitment-wise I believe, and they're only 18lb each at 17x7". I just think they look too spidery for the style of the H-body. *shrug* I'm sure I'll settle down on a rim eventually lol.

[cordes]

I'm pretty sure those wheels are off of a sebring or cirrus. That style of center cap was very popular on the mopars in the late 90s.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I agree on cirrus rims.

[Mudman]

Good call on the cirrus rims guys. From a quick search I came up with an offset rang of "40-48mm". I'm thinking mine are probably +48 as I did some crude measurements between these wheels and my snowflakes. The cirrus rims mreasured about 10mm deeper to the mounting surface.

Any thoughts?

[MoparStephen]

What spring rates are you using on your coilovers?

[Mudman]

Guys! I am asking for opinions on the logic of my mad-man thoughts.

Discount Tire has a "$100 Visa Prepaid Card Rebate" when purchasing any set of 4 wheels. Here's my thinking...Konig Illusions are good looking rims, and they weigh in at EIGHTEEN POUNDS EACH! That's at 17X7". Now, they don't jump out at me as being beautiful for the Lancer...but with Black and Machined Ball Cut finish, they definitely wouldn't look bad.

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/findWheelDetail.do?bp=5-100&fl=&pc=61556&counter=2&wd=17&rw=7

Here's the kicker: I can pick up a set for $360, counting the prepaid rebate. If I get wheels through DT.com, I'll also get a free mount and balance as I'll be getting tires through them.

What do you think guys? I really like the looks of those "White Diamond" rims, but at "25-30lb each"...
How noticeable would the heavier rims be? On top of that, it would end up costing me a considerable amount more to get heavy rims, and that kinda put a sour taste in my mouth as well.

Awaiting your thoughts,

Zach

[Rrider]

I agree 25-30 is too heavy. Accel will feel worse, shocks will have a harder time controlling the wheel, it will be noticeable. I would go for the Konigs. I think they look better anyway.

[Mudman]

I agree 25-30 is too heavy. Accel will feel worse, shocks will have a harder time controlling the wheel, it will be noticeable. I would go for the Konigs. I think they look better anyway.

Thank you for the input on performance. I agree that they're just too hefty to justify. Everyone has their own opinions on looks, it's completely subjective, and I really thought that those "White Diamond" rims, black with machined face, looked really nice on the Lancer. I did a crude photoshop (actually, I used MS Paint, sue me lol) and slapped them on there. They did look nice imo, just...not worth all the downsides.

However, the Konig's are a nice match up. Did the same thing with those wheels and they do look good. Light weight, and a wheel manufacturer I've actually heard of before baha. I still might need spacers to get the camber I want, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

-Zach

[cordes]

I doubt you'll find a lighter wheel from a reputable manufacturer in that price range. Those are lighter than 16" pumpers by a couple of lbs.

[Mudman]

I doubt you'll find a lighter wheel from a reputable manufacturer in that price range. Those are lighter than 16" pumpers by a couple of lbs.

Definitely. I was shocked by the weight, price, and style as a package. My only fear is taking on a little bit of that "ricer" look..but...ehhhh, if I end up hating them I'm sure I can pawn them off for nearly what I will pay :p

[GLHNSLHT2]

I've noticed a difference in weight just swapping brands of tires in the same performance category on cars. Crappy yokohama's. :) Weight is bad. the less you have the better you are.

[Mudman]

So I have a quote locked in from DiscountTireDirect. It'll be about 7-10 days for them to get stock of the BFG g-Force COMP-2 A/S tires, but that's really no issue with me. Getting all the bells and whistles, including: Mount and Balance with "Ride Match System/Road Force", Mounting hardware for the Konigs, and Certificates for Refund or Replacement on all the tires (warranties). I'll likely be finalizing the order later this week.

Gotta say, I'm excited, and also nervous about these rims. They look VERY attractive in my opinion, objectively. I'm just hoping they look that good on the Lancer. One thing I will say, with those tiny mounting surfaces, I'm going to need to think about doing the rear disc conversion, or become comfortable with advertising tiny drums haha

[cordes]

I've noticed a difference in weight just swapping brands of tires in the same performance category on cars. Crappy yokohama's. :) Weight is bad. the less you have the better you are.

Indeed. I've noted a 3-4lb difference between tires of the same size. That really adds up.


So I have a quote locked in from DiscountTireDirect. It'll be about 7-10 days for them to get stock of the BFG g-Force COMP-2 A/S tires, but that's really no issue with me. Getting all the bells and whistles, including: Mount and Balance with "Ride Match System/Road Force", Mounting hardware for the Konigs, and Certificates for Refund or Replacement on all the tires (warranties). I'll likely be finalizing the order later this week.

Gotta say, I'm excited, and also nervous about these rims. They look VERY attractive in my opinion, objectively. I'm just hoping they look that good on the Lancer. One thing I will say, with those tiny mounting surfaces, I'm going to need to think about doing the rear disc conversion, or become comfortable with advertising tiny drums haha

The more I drive and the more I do the math on cost vs. benefit the more I realize that the stock drums are pretty great.

[Rrider]

My only fear is taking on a little bit of that "ricer" look..
Get silver ones. Ricer wouldn't be caught dead with old school silver. Agree a few pounds can matter. Had some 11 pound track wheels, car would feel sluggish switching back to my 16 pound stocks.

[Mudman]

Get silver ones. Ricer wouldn't be caught dead with old school silver. Agree a few pounds can matter. Had some 11 pound track wheels, car would feel sluggish switching back to my 16 pound stocks.

I was pretty limited on options that were light weight and feasible for fitment, sadly. I still think these rims will look good, it's just a little fear :p

[Mudman]

Quick mobile update:

The new wheels, in my opinion, are sexy. I'll probably need 1/8-1/4" spacers to get the neg camber I'd like. However, the ride is already greatly improved, I'm extremely satisfied.
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/members/13156-mudman-albums3930-89-lancer-shelby-my-true-love-picture29146-konig-illusion-17-215-45r17x7.jpg

[Mudman]

A couple more. I must say, my phone camera just does not do these rims justice. They are such a true black that they seem to become a dark abyss on camera. They suit the car extremely well IMO.
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/members/13156-mudman-albums3930-89-lancer-shelby-my-true-love-picture29162-a.jpg
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/members/13156-mudman-albums3930-89-lancer-shelby-my-true-love-picture29170-a.jpg