Gtp rear wings

[polopharm]

I was looking at Rottie's car show display and noticed that the race car 19 had an unusual wing.
Has anyone seen similar set ups on other gtp's ?
Or any other gtp wings at all ?
I am not sure if this one was just to create more air flow to engine , as I do not see other benefit to it.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/29/baf422f362d527a8275de1aed48569f3.jpg

[player1up]

I saw that pic and was wondering how long it would be before it came up.
I've looked through as many pictures of Consuliers as I could find and the more I look, the more confused I get.

There seem to be 3 different main versions of the wings, Series 1, Series 2 and Series 1.5 targa/roadster . That being said, there are exceptions, the pic above is one example, pearl is another example

Generally speaking:
Series 1 wings are pitched quite a bit at the front compared to series 2 and targa wings.
Series 1.5 wings are almost flat, deeper ( front to back ) and screw to the quarter panels at the front.
Series 2 wings appear to be a little curved on the leading edge ( side to side ) and are "down into" the quarter a little compared to the series 1.5 wings.

There are exceptions to all of these generalities.
Series 1 ( white and black pizza wheel car ) seems to have almost no pitch on the wing, Pearl also seems to have no pitch
Not all Series 1 wings have a third brake light ( black car and a red /black car from the photo gallery )

Other than the above, the only truly different ones that I've seen are in the pic of this car and the yellow series 2 car in the back of the picture at the super secret storage location.

I can't imagine it's for cooling of any kind ( can't believe cooling help is needed ) . With all of the prototyping that was going on back in the day, I can imagine that there were a few designs being tested.
It does look like that car is squatting in the rear.
From what I've experienced and what others have said, the rear doesn't need more downforce, the front does. The voices in my head are screaming at me to put a huge wing on this car "because racecar" but so far I'm resisting the urge ;)

[168glhs1986]

Same here. I want to add a wing but haven't found it to be needed on the track. My front end lift floating issues were due to insufficient front struts and a bad alignment.

I also installed smaller 16" tires and lowered the front more. That certainly helped.

Now it's stable and doesn't lift at speed so a wing could be added for "looks" hopefully without causing the front to lift more.

[polopharm]

That wing in the picture, to me looks like an add on to maybe try and fix a handling issue , but would seem to me to make a lot of drag. Just like the headlight openings are the opposite of aerodynamic ( can't wait to get those covers!)

I imagine that a front splitter would help handling more then anything , keeping the nose down.

When mine was track aligned and set up , they lowered the front significantly.

The raptor and later consulier based cars had giant wings.

On the track virtually all the cars have front splitters, most are homemade using plexiglass, or wood and turnbuckles. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/30/3cde486f50c6a011a47284e309556e5a.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/30/6a9593bb16e7cd0b8cabf3d967aff26a.jpg

[player1up]

You beat me to it.
I'm planning on experimenting with a front splitter soon. It'll have to be something stiff because I'm not drilling holes for turnbuckles ;)

The headlight covers seem to have very little effect on overall balance. If anything maybe it's a tad less twitchy at 70-80ish but I think that's due to less turbulence on the front end.
I liken the twitchy feeling to what it's like to drive behind a semi. Not really sure how to explain it but it's like there's a cross wind or disrupted airflow at the front when the covers aren't on.
That reminds me, I have to update the HL cover thread.

I'm thinking that the rear ( I'll start calling it a spoiler because that's what I think it's function really is ) spoiler isn't as big on drag as you think it is.
Rapid racer has a good write up on aero http://www.rapid-racer.com/aerodynamic-upgrades.php

As for the Raptor / Intruder, they still have the little spoiler along with the wing, BUT have quite a few more aero mods on the front including a splitter and canards ( along with the trailing edge splitter above the diffuser )
At least one pic of a hammerhead car has fender vents and front intakes as well...


I'm thinking a splitter will be all that's needed on everything except a track only car....although It would be awesome to see one driving down the street with a huge wing on it ( I shall call it "the flying circus" ) :D

[Reaper1]

I will bet that the spoiler on that red car is actually making quite a bit of downforce and the spring rates weren't right, hence the squatting. If you look, the outer edges of the wing are actually beyond the rear quarter, so it is most certainly picking up at least some air that isn't all turbulent.

[player1up]

Time for some yarn / tape aero testing :thumb:

[Reaper1]

Johnny did some on his Barbi car, but that's a targa.

[player1up]

Yeah, I'm thinking that the back of the car has very different flow compared to a coupe. I'll need someone to man the camera in a chase vehicle... I'm going to be working on a splitter first, but I've got a feeling that the car will get a wing eventually. ;)

[Reaper1]

You can also do a water based paint or there is stuff like colored mineral oil (actually that might be exactly what it is....have to look again) that you can do streamline testing with, no cameras or chase vehicle needed.

[player1up]

You can also do a water based paint or there is stuff like colored mineral oil (actually that might be exactly what it is....have to look again) that you can do streamline testing with, no cameras or chase vehicle needed.

You'll have to elaborate on that liquid. I spent some time googling that and only came up with fluid dynamics.
I did run across some very interesting articles about diy aero testing though, almost all of which use tape / wool.
Some use mile per gallon calculations, but we're not talking about hypermiling here.


I suppose I could wash the car and use the leaf blower to watch the drops flow off the car, but the flow at the cars skin is only a small part of the equation, and then there's the problem of only being a 3 inch wind stream...

I did have a kooky idea about using some 3d capture software to "capture" the car in 3d and import it into a wind tunnel simulator to run some base testing. It is possible in theory, but it seems easier just to tape the car and go for a drive.

Here is the splitter so far.
http://i1026.photobucket.com/albums/y327/player1up/splitter%20Medium_zps1ej6pvjt.jpg

Wow, didn't realize how dark that pic is until I uploaded it. Anyway, you can kinda see the shape.
Sticks out 3.5 inches at the front, extends back into the front wheel wells a little and overlaps the front suspension cover a little as well.
I made it out of masonite... I had a bunch floating around the garage that was getting ruined so I decided to use that for the template.
Not sure what the final version will be, but I'll make sure to post it up when I start working on it full tilt.

[polopharm]

The splitter looks great.
There is a good aero posting on the mr2 owners group where a guy used computer modeling to work on aero improvements.
It involved a lot of work to get the dimensions and shape of the car perfect, but aside from that he says it was not to bad.
It also yielded some unexpected results that were later proven very effective.

[player1up]

The splitter looks great.
There is a good aero posting on the mr2 owners group where a guy used computer modeling to work on aero improvements.
It involved a lot of work to get the dimensions and shape of the car perfect, but aside from that he says it was not to bad.
It also yielded some unexpected results that were later proven very effective.

I think I found it, posted by alex_W on mr2oc...if not, that one is interesting too.

I'll have to revisit the 3d stuff, but knowing my level of "got to know" it may be quite a while before I have a model that's detailed enough for my liking. Not that I plan on re-inventing the wheel or anything like that, but I'd like to know if there are any possible side effects that get introduced by changing things ( "unexpected results" if you will )

[Reaper1]

You're right that the boundary layer is only a small part of the story, but it's probably one of the most important parts since it is showing how the sir is directly interacting with the surface. Anything that happens there will affect the rest of the flow above that point and downstream. With tuft testing you can tell quite a bit about what's going on. Local velocity, direction, laminar flow, pressure (to a point). If you record it and play it back, you can see it in real time, you can slow it down, you can see how it changes over different vehicle/air velocities. You can get all the same stuff with paint or oil, but it takes more interpretation IMHO. However, it's easier to see the streamlines.

If you can scan the car, maybe you can 3D print a model? Doing scale testing is WAY cheaper and easier than full-scale. If 3D printing is out, maybe doing section modeling where you build the whole end product out of sections instead of all at one shot?

[speeddemon]

Some one mentioned flow viz paint.

DIY thread...

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62638

[player1up]

Some one mentioned flow viz paint.

DIY thread...

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62638

Thanks Craig!

Between the flow viz paint and tufts I think I can get a good idea of whether or not the splitter will be worth it.

Since this thread has turned into a Consulier Aero thread I thought I'd mention and interesting conversation I had.

I was talking to Aaron about some aero mods and asked if he had gotten his diffuser installed yet ( his car didn't have one when he bought it ).
He hadn't installed it yet, figured it wouldn't be that much of a change ( based on everything I've read, diffuser effects can be quite noticeable ) . Now he says the car is planted in the rear and squats at hwy speeds. He said it made a huge difference.

Moral of the story I guess is that small changes can have large impacts...Might mean the the monster wing is out but that there is hope for the splitter.