GTP and the stock 555

[168glhs1986]

Can anyone shift their trans quickly without grinding into 2nd?

EDIT: GRINDING INTO SECOND !

If so what clutch do you have?

Also does the throw to third gear feel like 2:30 to you?

[2.216VTurbo]

The only 555 I have left is in the 89 CSX, it doesn't grind on the 2/3 but it's definitely notchier and takes a lot more effort than the 523/568's in just about everything else I have.

[player1up]

With the STS and rod ends on the cables it's better, but still miss it occasionally. Position is about 1:15 for me. I'll let you know how it is when I get the trans ends of the cables done and the TU clutch put in.
I did run across a post on here about fixing the side to side trans lever / roll pin that was reported to help a lot.

[168glhs1986]

Hmmm. I have STS and TU clutch and I still have issues . Made changes to my lever and better but not a modern shifter feel. My STS and 568 in the 86 glhs shifts awesome

[cordes]

What RPM are you shifting at?

[player1up]

Hmmm. I have STS and TU clutch and I still have issues . Made changes to my lever and better but not a modern shifter feel. My STS and 568 in the 86 glhs shifts awesome

So you changed the fulcrum point ( lower, more travel at the lever for the same travel on the pedal ) on the lever?
How is the 6 puck unsprung disc to drive?
I'm going to try to start on the clutch this weekend.

[168glhs1986]

Yes I did. I have the 4 puck purple in both the GTP and the GLHS. Best clutch ever....but I think Chris changes the fulcrum point in his clutches......at least that's what one of my friends says.....the clutch could be part of the problem.

Mike

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What RPM are you shifting at?

Normally the shift light is set at 7200 but the RPM gauge broke in the middle of my last run at Cecil so I shifted by sound. I bet that was more like 8200 ish. All I know is it sounded different then before :)

I didn't grind during that run either.....but it's far from a quick shift.

[player1up]

Yes I did. I have the 4 puck purple in both the GTP and the GLHS. Best clutch ever....but I think Chris changes the fulcrum point in his clutches......at least that's what one of my friends says.....the clutch could be part of the problem.

Mike
.

The TU site says the fulcrum is changed to provide the same pedal "feel", but if that's the case, it might now allow for enough free play.
The only thing I can think of is that the GTP's have a hydraulic setup vs cable and there might be more range in the cable setup. I think the clutch on the GTP's is super light anyway but I'm used to a 3 finger plate from my old Duster.
I got the 232mm 6 puck btw. I don't plan on doing a clutch for as long as I have it. From what I hear it's pain.

Keep us posted if you find a fix.

[168glhs1986]

Player1up. I'm sorry my issue was grinding into second gear. Sorry it's been a while since I've driven it and Brian had to remind me.

So if you had no grinding with the stock clutch and then have grinding with the TU clutch, that will pretty much clear things up for me.

I hope that's not the case but I'll be following closely.

Mike

[Johnny]

I can shift to second fast with mine. ...all stock here.

[player1up]

Same here. 2nd was fine. I'll get the clutch in this weekend and the suspension rebuilt by the weekend after that... I'll let you know how it is.

[168glhs1986]

Does anyone have adjustable front shocks?

[Reaper1]

I don't own a GTP ( :( ), but I do own an A555 and I want to say I've driven all of the transmissions (in all states of functionality...totally clapped out to just being rebuilt) except the A525..I don't know that I've ever driven one! LOL

Anyway...no matter the clutch (stock or aftermarket) or transmission (A520/555/523/543/568), I have issues being able to "cleanly" fast-shift into 2nd. I personally have to slow myself down in order to not get a small "crunch" if I fast shift to 2nd. I do NOT "power shift" (aka no-lift shift). I personally feel that the issue is a combination of the clutch inertia and the gearset inertia overpowering the 1/2 synchro.

I have tried to see if it's a timing thing on my part while shifting fast (like if I'm not waiting until the clutch is fully disengaged before pulling on the shifter), but each time I find that it doesn't seem I'm missing my timing...the hard parts just can't keep up. I've also tried different fluids in the transmission with no real change.

My next step will be to move to a solid hub clutch disc to lower to rotating inertia. There have been a number of people on the forums that have experienced high rpm shifting issues that have made this change with positive results (I am unwilling to say it "solved" the issue, because it didn't).

I don't think this was any help, but maybe it sheds some light that this isn't an isolated issue you are experiencing.

[player1up]

Preliminary update:
On initial install the clutch was disengaging at the very bottom of the pedal travel and the car was nearly impossible to get into 2nd.
5 min later...After adjusting the pedal to put engagement / disengagement right around 1/2 pedal, 1-2 shift was about the same as with the original clutch.

Adjusting it higher in the pedal travel ( around the first 1/3 of pedal depression ) it's easier to shift into 2nd....BUT I only ran it through the gears a couple of times.. I didn't leave it there because I didn't check throwout bearing clearance at this level. What should the free play be on the bearing and how do I measure it? That tiny window at the top of the trans isn't big enough

Keep in mind that I have the car limited to 8psi for now and these were 4-5k RPM shifts and were quick shifting tests only, not "power" shifts with huge loads on the engine before or after the shifts.

[Vigo]

It's going to be very rpm dependent because the synchro is slowing the RPM of the clutch and input shaft. I wouldn't be surprised if something that felt perfect a 5k felt like crap at 7500.

[168glhs1986]

^^ this is what we experienced. Fine for engine break in first. 200 miles. Then I really put this motor thru hell and back. Drove it like I stole it and there is is the 1-2 crunch. Where did that come from? Likely there from day 1.

Thanks for the feedback player1up !!

[135sohc]

If its an earlier unit with the brass 1-2 synchronizer you may find its never going to shift exactly right. Chrysler/new process changed the 1-2 synchronizer 3 times over the production span of the 2.2/2.5 in an attempt to get it smoother. The first 4 speed and until the early 5 speed units came with all small brass rings on 1-4 or 1-5, then the larger 1-2 brass rings to give more friction surface and then finally the 3 piece 1-2 design with yet even more and higher coefficient friction surface.

[168glhs1986]

Thanks for this info ^^^. We are getting the newer design synchros

[shackwrrr]

What fluid are you running. I have had issues with grinding gears when using motor oil in my transmissions (2-3 shift in 523/568), once I switched to synchromesh I get perfect shifts.

Every transmission I have torn apart for whatever reason has had good brass but most of them still had grinding issues. The only thing I could ever figure on them is that it is too easy for the 3 struts to compress the spring and the pressure on the brass ring is too little to push the oil out of the way. A few others have tried doubling up the springs on the inside of the synchros to increase the pressure that is applied by the struts and it seems to be working.

[Ondonti]

I don't own a GTP ( :( ), but I do own an A555 and I want to say I've driven all of the transmissions (in all states of functionality...totally clapped out to just being rebuilt) except the A525..I don't know that I've ever driven one! LOL

Anyway...no matter the clutch (stock or aftermarket) or transmission (A520/555/523/543/568), I have issues being able to "cleanly" fast-shift into 2nd. I personally have to slow myself down in order to not get a small "crunch" if I fast shift to 2nd. I do NOT "power shift" (aka no-lift shift). I personally feel that the issue is a combination of the clutch inertia and the gearset inertia overpowering the 1/2 synchro.

I have tried to see if it's a timing thing on my part while shifting fast (like if I'm not waiting until the clutch is fully disengaged before pulling on the shifter), but each time I find that it doesn't seem I'm missing my timing...the hard parts just can't keep up. I've also tried different fluids in the transmission with no real change.

My next step will be to move to a solid hub clutch disc to lower to rotating inertia. There have been a number of people on the forums that have experienced high rpm shifting issues that have made this change with positive results (I am unwilling to say it "solved" the issue, because it didn't).

I don't think this was any help, but maybe it sheds some light that this isn't an isolated issue you are experiencing.
My a543 Duster shifts at 7K with no 2nd gear synchro. :eek: Won't shift at low rpms :( Facing is worn down so far that the synchros are stuck on the gear. No replacements or refacing available :(

If anyone has their 555 apart, shouldn't they install a Chromoly plate?

[168glhs1986]

What fluid are you running. I have had issues with grinding gears when using motor oil in my transmissions (2-3 shift in 523/568), once I switched to synchromesh I get perfect shifts.

Every transmission I have torn apart for whatever reason has had good brass but most of them still had grinding issues. The only thing I could ever figure on them is that it is too easy for the 3 struts to compress the spring and the pressure on the brass ring is too little to push the oil out of the way. A few others have tried doubling up the springs on the inside of the synchros to increase the pressure that is applied by the struts and it seems to be working.

Thank you great advice. We are going to double up on springs this time. Also change the fluid as well.

[Reaper1]

Yes, any A555 or A520 that you have apart and can afford it, install the chromoly end plate.

I have used Synchromesh (Royal Purple) in my A555 and my experience was this: cold it shifted great. Warmed up it acted the same or worse than regular oil.

I drained that out and put in Red Line MTL and it's exactly the opposite. I will say that it still does not solve the 1-2 shifting issue completely, but it's better.

[Johnny]

I found this good also....Red Line MTL.

[bfarroo]

Can you add a third pad at the 12 o'clock position on the shift fork? I've heard this helps with some of the shifting issues but haven't tried it yet myself.

[168glhs1986]

If its an earlier unit with the brass 1-2 synchronizer you may find its never going to shift exactly right. Chrysler/new process changed the 1-2 synchronizer 3 times over the production span of the 2.2/2.5 in an attempt to get it smoother. The first 4 speed and until the early 5 speed units came with all small brass rings on 1-4 or 1-5, then the larger 1-2 brass rings to give more friction surface and then finally the 3 piece 1-2 design with yet even more and higher coefficient friction surface.

Your a genius! Brian swapped the 1/2 from a 568 and used a 89 up 555 shaft and it appears as if the 1/2 crunch is completely gone.

He also doubled up on the springs or something like that and filled it with ATF fluid.

Thanks again

[black86glhs]

Your a genius! Brian swapped the 1/2 from a 568 and used a 89 up 555 shaft and it appears as if the 1/2 crunch is completely gone.

He also doubled up on the springs or something like that and filled it with ATF fluid.

Thanks againHave read doubling those springs in the 3 piece synchro works well.

[player1up]

Your a genius! Brian swapped the 1/2 from a 568 and used a 89 up 555 shaft and it appears as if the 1/2 crunch is completely gone.

He also doubled up on the springs or something like that and filled it with ATF fluid.

Thanks again

So are you going to make a how to or parts needed for the rest of us? Not looking forward to tearing the trans apart or if I can even find the parts but it'd be good to know what's involved.

[168glhs1986]

So are you going to make a how to or parts needed for the rest of us? Not looking forward to tearing the trans apart or if I can even find the parts but it'd be good to know what's involved.

My how to's are always the same. Ask Brian what the bill is and then add approx 20 % because he undercharges.

So basically if you read my thread you'll see our trannies come with the old 555 1/2 gearset.

If you have a problem you will want to get ahold of everything 1/2 related from a 568 trans and locate a gear shaft from a 89 and up 555.

He also doubled up on the springs whatever the hell that means.

Also from what I was told you can do this without removing the trans from the car. Seems like voodoo magic to me.

Also if you haven't already make the throw on the gear shaft thingy longer than do it now. I actually did that mod myself. If we would have done that sooner it might have saved a stock 1/2 gearset.

The real trans write up would come if I ever decide to install the 568. That's what I wish the car had. Shifts are so much shorter. My GLHS shifts better than most modern day sports cars.

[player1up]

My how to's are always the same. Ask Brian what the bill is and then add approx 20 % because he undercharges.

So basically if you read my thread you'll see our trannies come with the old 555 1/2 gearset.

If you have a problem you will want to get ahold of everything 1/2 related from a 568 trans and locate a gear shaft from a 89 and up 555.

He also doubled up on the springs whatever the hell that means.

Also from what I was told you can do this without removing the trans from the car. Seems like voodoo magic to me.

Also if you haven't already make the throw on the gear shaft thingy longer than do it now. I actually did that mod myself. If we would have done that sooner it might have saved a stock 1/2 gearset.

The real trans write up would come if I ever decide to install the 568. That's what I wish the car had. Shifts are so much shorter. My GLHS shifts better than most modern day sports cars.

I'll have to give Brian a call about the springs...and about what kind of black magic he used to do this with the trans in the car ;)

What is this "shaft thingy" you speak of? Are we talking about the shift/selector shaft ends on the trans? Pics?

[168glhs1986]

^^ HI Matt. I believe the shaft that holds the gears. I'll confirm but yes please call Brian.

I never ask him for picss :) Although it would be nice to share with others he's a one man show at his shop. He probably eats lunch while changing oil with his right hand and working on axles his left hand.

I do enjoy your pics and write ups and wish I had the talent and abilities to do this work myself.

Mike

[rx2mazda]

^^ HI Matt. I believe the shaft that holds the gears. I'll confirm but yes please call Brian.

I never ask him for picss :) Although it would be nice to share with others he's a one man show at his shop. He probably eats lunch while changing oil with his right hand and working on axles his left hand.

I do enjoy your pics and write ups and wish I had the talent and abilities to do this work myself.

Mike

Believe it or not, Brian eats lunch just like us regular people.

[168glhs1986]

Believe it or not, Brian eats lunch just like us regular people.

Haha, Yea i know. I just added that to make the story better.

[black86glhs]

Believe it or not, Brian eats lunch just like us regular people.What???? I heard he dunks chicken nuggets in 75w90!!!

[player1up]

Believe it or not, Brian eats lunch just like us regular people.
Lies....lies I tell you :D


What???? I heard he dunks chicken nuggets in 75w90!!!
From what I've seen of his work this wouldn't surprise me. Probably could use his telekinesis to hold the camera when his hands are full.


^^ HI Matt. I believe the shaft that holds the gears. I'll confirm but yes please call Brian.

I never ask him for picss :) Although it would be nice to share with others he's a one man show at his shop. He probably eats lunch while changing oil with his right hand and working on axles his left hand.

I do enjoy your pics and write ups and wish I had the talent and abilities to do this work myself.

Mike
The main 1-2 shaft makes sense with what I've been reading. Not sure I'll even get to this project as quite a few repairs and upgrades have gobbled up what fun money I had, but it'll be in the back of my mind.

Thanks for the compliment...I can do more with less when I do it myself.

[cordes]

By doubling the springs I believe he's just adding a second spring to the wings of the synchros on each side. I've always thought that it would be a good idea. I'm sure that anyone who's had a trans apart has probably wondered why there aren't two of them or a larger one in the first place.

[168glhs1986]

Update. Trans shifts perfect after Brian worked his majic.

This has got to improve my 1/4 mile times. In the videos ive seen i can visibly see my car pausing as I attempt to find 2nd and 3rd gears.