Run it or rebuild it?

[iTurbo]

Kinda torn right now about what to do with a 2.5L TIII short block I have here. It was rebuilt 10 years ago by a local machine shop and has +.020" Venolia pistons, stock reconditioned rods, and a reconditioned 2.5L crankshaft. New ARP rod bolts and main studs. I took it out of the bag and removed the oil pan and everything looks fine and it appears the right ARP fastener lube was used. It spins freely and is very clean.

It's been sitting in my apartment in a bag pretty much ever since about '05. Never stored in the garage or out of the bag. I would really like to just assemble the rest of it and run it in my white Spirit R/T sometime this year, but the fact that it has sat so long kinda makes me wonder if I should really just tear it down and reassemble it to check the oil clearances, ring gaps, and that everything is properly assembled. That will take some time though..

On the other hand, I could just run it. The last TIII I built had also had the block previously assembled by the same local machine shop. I tore it all apart and reassembled and found no mistakes at all. That engine is still running great today.



Right now I think I will just take my chances and run it.:evil:

[iTurbo]

If I do take this thing apart, I'm wondering what the best method of splitting the rods/caps apart is. I REALLY don't want to damage anything taking stuff apart so I can plasticgauge stuff and recheck ring gaps.

Last time I did this I ended up putting the block upside down on an engine stand and put the piston/rod at BDC (so the rod caps were accessible) and then loosening the rod nuts and using a rubber mallet on the loosened rod nuts (trying to be gentle going back and forth on the two fasteners) to separate the cap from the rod. Seemed to work just fine. Is this method OK or is there a better way?

[5DIGITS]

If I do take this thing apart, I'm wondering what the best method of splitting the rods/caps apart is. I REALLY don't want to damage anything taking stuff apart so I can plasticgauge stuff and recheck ring gaps.

Last time I did this I ended up putting the block upside down on an engine stand and put the piston/rod at BDC (so the rod caps were accessible) and then loosening the rod nuts and using a rubber mallet on the loosened rod nuts (trying to be gentle going back and forth on the two fasteners) to separate the cap from the rod. Seemed to work just fine. Is this method OK or is there a better way?

Your approach seems to be reasonable.

[iTurbo]

Well that is a relief! What about the main caps....honest to god they are about impossible to pull straight up and out of their registers (I think that is what they are called). Is it OK to remove the caps by slightly wiggling them back and forth after the main stud nuts are all out? Without damaging what is probably a perfectly good main bearing?

[85glht]

Run it.

[iTurbo]

Run it.

I was hoping everybody would say that lol.

[RattFink]

Run it!

[GLHNSLHT2]

prime the snot out of the oil pump and run it.

[going4speed]

I'd fog the top end with a marine fogger. Let it sit for a day or two then spin it over before installing and running it.

[iTurbo]

I will definitely be very thorough about priming the engine before hand. It appears the assembly lube used is still there.

The top end has also been rebuilt and sitting on a work bench ever since. It was rebuilt by the same local company which so far has been great. It's a stock production TIII head rebuilt with Ti retainers, new valve seals, etc...it will be running good stock cams and a new set of lifters from FWDP. It will also be getting a Cometic HG (.051) and a set of ARP head studs.

[joelzip]

Prime and rotate assembly, put assembly lube on the cams and go!

[Vigo]

Your method of separating rod caps sounds good. The main caps, i usually back the bolts out of the threads and then with the bolts still in the main cap rock the cap back and forth using the bolt as a 'handle' until it works upward enough to pop off.

But, I would run it as is. :p

[HSKR]

I say run it. The only thing you may need to be worried about is any rubber seals.

[going4speed]

Good point on the seals. Easy to replace right now!

[86Shelby]

I see no reason to run it. Wipe some oil on the cylinder walls, replace the crank seals for peace of mind and go for it.


On second thought, DON'T run it! Don't even think about it. Children will cry, mothers will be angered, newspapers will write bad things about you. I'll send you a TIII block with JEs, a crankshaft and a few bucks for some rods so you don't have to face that fate. I'll fall on that hand grenade for you, my friend. ;)

[Pat]

Clean it, seal it and run it.

[iTurbo]

Well I decided to tear it apart and rebuild it. Reason being I just had to make sure everything was assembled correctly (the possibility of improperly installed pin locks scared me among other things). And..... now I have no one to blame but myself if anything happens which is what'd I'd prefer anyway.

So far it looks great. Managed to get it all torn down without damaging anything. Bearings still look perfect and are Clevite 77 with 3-06 date stamp. The original assembly lube was waaay thicker than the stuff I use (Lubriplate 105). All of the pistons/rods are properly assembled and the spiral pin locks are installed correctly. The clocking of the ring gaps seems all over the place though. Not like the FSM shows anyway.

Now that I have a bare block I have another dilemma. This block has ARP main studs installed, but there was no line hone ever done when it was previously built at the machine shop. I think the nearest shop that could do it is in Sturgis which is over 100 miles away. It's probably not absolutely necessary but it's also the best time to have it done. For what it's worth, the crankshaft spun like butter after removing the pistons/rods.

[joelzip]

You have access to bore gauge?

[iTurbo]

Yes, I have a set. It looks like there are measurements written in Sharpie on the Venolia pistons as well.

[joelzip]

Check the mains for roundness with the gauges after torquing the caps down.

[iTurbo]

Ah, I thought you were getting at verifying piston clearance. I will look into that though.

Here it is all disassembled. This is the third engine that I have had rebuilt/assembled by my local machine shop and all I can say is they apparently do good work. Everything has checked out really well so far. This will be the 3rd motor I have built from a bare block and the first two are still running strong (a log 2.2L TI and a 2.2L TIII). I must have done something right (thanks to you guys).

540985409754099

[iTurbo]

Anybody got the torque specs for ARP main studs handy? I talked to RPM machine shop in Sturgis and he needs the spec to line hone this block which I hope to drop off soon...

[86Shelby]

I haven't had any issues with the bores being out of round on the two engines I've put the main studs in. They weren't measured, though when checking the bearings on one of them later on they didn't show any unusual wear. YMMV

[iTurbo]

That is basically what I have heard as well Ray. It sounds as if the line hone is ideal but not absolutely necessary in most cases.

Right now I'm thinking I'll drop the Spirit R/T block off in Sturgis and then resume the Shelby Lancer project!

Tonight I'm verifying the ring gaps. According to the '91 FSM, the specs for the TIII for the "No. 1 Ring" and "No. 2 Ring" are .014"-.020". Oil control ring spec is .010"-.020".

[iTurbo]

I dropped the block off at RPM in Sturgis today but I'm still having trouble locating the torque spec for the ARP main studs. Anybody?

Also, do the main studs get the ARP assembly lube on both ends of the stud before installation (block side and nut side?) I'll definitely put a light coat of the stuff on the washers and nut bottoms, but I'm not sure about the block-side threads.

[joelzip]

http://arp-bolts.com/kits/ARPkit-detail.php?RecordID=407.

[joelzip]

Installation instructions are in that link 80 ft lbs

[iTurbo]

^ Thanks!

[Force Fed Mopar]

I'm just wondering why you spend all this money to have machine shops assemble engines when you just take them apart and re-do everything anyway? :confused: lol

[iTurbo]

I'm just wondering why you spend all this money to have machine shops assemble engines when you just take them apart and re-do everything anyway? :confused: lol

They were built/assembled by a local machine shop about 10 years ago before I knew how to do it myself. Plus it's just something I want to get better/faster at.

[iTurbo]

I picked up my TIII block this afternoon in Sturgis. The machinist (who I'm pretty sure is the owner) did it and seemed very knowledgeable and gave me some tips on installing the studs for the final time. He said he line bored the mains (not just honed) and took a little bit of material off the caps similar to resizing connecting rods. He also told me to forget the ARP instructions and install the nuts to 70 ft/lbs. I think I will follow his advice since he likely used that spec to finish it.

$200 for the main line bore, another $60 for the hot tank. A little more than I was imagining, but I'm happy that it's done. Very clean and ready for paint and assembly now.

[joelzip]

Wow 70 instead of ARP recommended 80? Maybe ask more of the turbo dodge members about that one. What kind of gasket are you using, mls?

[Force Fed Mopar]

Last time I priced a line bore here it was $300, so you got out cheap :)

[iTurbo]

Wow 70 instead of ARP recommended 80? Maybe ask more of the turbo dodge members about that one. What kind of gasket are you using, mls?

Yup, Cometic MLS headgasket (.051") with copper spray and ARP head studs and also Cometic manifold gaskets too.

[turbovanman²]

They have the spec for a reason, we usually go higher not lower. Stick with the recommend value.

I'm with FFM, why spend all that money and redo it. I'd have run it as is, :p

Can you post pics of the piston tops please?

Do the rods have ARP's?

Only need to coat the top end of the studs, not the block side but it won't hurt.

Edit, I had these specs in the old FAQ's.


Specs using moly lube-

Head studs-use around 80-85 ft/lbs but higher if you experience seepage or lifting. I've gone 100-110 ft/lbs with no issues and done this many times and also reused the studs many times, :eyebrows:

Mains studs are 65 ft/lbs

Rod bolts are 50 ft/lbs.

[iTurbo]

They have the spec for a reason, we usually go higher not lower. Stick with the recommend value.

I'm with FFM, why spend all that money and redo it. I'd have run it as is, :p

Can you post pics of the piston tops please?

Do the rods have ARP's?

Only need to coat the top end of the studs, not the block side but it won't hurt.

Edit, I had these specs in the old FAQ's.


I dunno, I just didn't feel good about running it after sitting for 10 years being stored. I will at least feel better about it having some fresh assembly lube and the confidence that the specs are correct to the best of my ability.

I will get some pics of the tops of the Venolia and Wiseco 2.5L TIII pistons up soon. And yes, the stock TIII rods have be reconditioned with ARP rod bolts.


ARP says 80 ft/lbs; you say 65 ft/lb; the machinist says 70 ft/lbs......If the machinist finished the bore/hone with that main caps at 70, then wouldn't it be best for me to use that spec in the end?

[turbovanman²]

Yes, if they were line honed at 70, use 70.

I got that spec in the ARP box with the main studs I bought. I've spun my TIII well up to 7500 and beaten the crap out of it as you know, never had an issue with the mains at 65.

[iTurbo]

Can you post pics of the piston tops please?.

Sorry for the wait. Here is a picture of the 2.5L TIII Wiseco piston top from TU:

54372

Here is a picture of the Venolia 2.5L TIII piston top from FWDP:

54373

[turbovanman²]

Thanks.

[Chris W]

Sorry for the wait. Here is a picture of the 2.5L TIII Wiseco piston top from TU:

54372

Here is a picture of the Venolia 2.5L TIII piston top from FWDP:

54373

We offer our 16-V pistons in two different dish sizes.

Chris-TU