What to do with 16v prototypes

[iTurbo]

A while back I bought two prototype engines that were never installed or ran. One is a 2.2L TIII; the other is a 2.2L Masi 16v. Both have unique prototype valve covers as well.

I haven't done anything with them and they are still on the shipping pallet. They both have some pre-production oddities but could probably be cleaned up/installed/ran. The TIII would be easy, but the Masi would take a little more work thanks to the really weird timing belt tooth shape the sprockets use.

Would I be crazy to install these and make a running car out of them, or are they best left alone as they are? I'm sure I will just keep them but sometimes I wonder if some things are too rare to be used. Thoughts?

[Vigo]

Eh, you wouldn't be crazy but if you dont think you'd ever finish them you're better off not starting. Just depends how much effort you want to put into something that probably has novelty as the only advantage over 'normal' versions.

I would consider just beautifying them and using them as display models.

[4 l-bodies]

Jeremy,
Here is my opinion since you asked for them. I've had this same type of conversation with a few different people esp. in the TM community. I occasionally need to look in the mirror and ask myself the same questions (lol). Hoarding parts you may never use is almost like a disorder of some sort. You must have bought them for some reason? Maybe its the thrill of winning an auction that gives some people an adrenaline rush that fades quickly after the thrill of victory has been met. Keeping them around unused is doing exactly what for you? Do you think of yourself as merely a caretaker for them for someone else to ultimately use or enjoy? You're not alone. There is a reason why many of these parts have gone unused since they were produced.
My suggestion is use them if you have a need for them. You don't need to answer to anyone about using one-off prototype parts. You own them, not anyone else, and can do with them whatever suits your fancy. Some may need production parts swapped out for the one-off parts so they can be ready to run or readily serviced. You may need to do a whole bunch of chasin part #'s in catalogs to find stuff like unusual timing belts, etc. You might be surprised at the obscure parts that you can find with some diggin. If you can't see yourself using these parts, I would think about selling them while there is still somewhat of a market for them. The TM market is shrinking every day, but with that siad, there is always going to be people looking for unusual, NOS, or super low mileage parts/cars.
Good luck!
Todd

[iTurbo]

You guys both hit the nail on the head especially Todd. I'm really not sure why I bought these engines other than the fact that I got a pretty good package deal with a fellow forum member who happens to have connections in Detroit. I am definitely guilty of hoarding which is a long story.

I would love to find a fanatic that really wants something like this. I'm not hurting for engines here....got enough production parts to last me a long time. Making coffee tables out of the prototype engines seems like such a waste too.

[crazychris]

Why couldn't something like this pop up in Canada. Lol.
I know it's high hopes, but maybe one day? Lol

[Vigo]

Well, nothing about making them pretty means you couldnt change your mind and use them later. In fact, it would probably make you more likely to once you'd invested time and effort and seen them in a truly good light. Still, it's just a left field idea that noone has any stake in. Just a thought. Letting them sit on crates for another decade probably isnt going to hurt anything either if the storage conditions are good.

[bgbmxer]

Here's my thoughts. they are yours and are free to do whatever floats your boat period but.

If if you don't plan on using them, don't wanna store them, or don't wanna make a display out of them then pass them on.

i say don't store them because there is always that chance that these cars might catch on and be worth crazy money and then you will be laughing at us while u sell your parts for stupid money.

it would be cool to see a prototype in a car if it could be done. a display would also be cool if you could take it to the big turbo dodge shows

[tryingbe]

Would I be crazy to install these and make a running car out of them


I vote a twin engine AWD 3rd gen Daytona.

[85boostbox]

It would be cool to out the prototype t3 in a pilot car or something of that nature....

[iTurbo]

I guess I used to have plans for them (at least the TIII), but in the last year I have sold three of my cars (GLH, CSX, red Spirit R/T). I used to have the mindset that I would put a TIII in every car I had lol! I'm not sure what I'll do with them now that I don't really even have cars for them.

- - - Updated - - -


It would be cool to out the prototype t3 in a pilot car or something of that nature....

I did mention to the guy at SDAC 24 with the birthday CSX that I had a prototype TIII with Shelby valve covers for sale and the response was pretty much, "sure, bud".

[2.216VTurbo]

This thread resonates with me in a few ways. Jeremy, I have too collected more than I needed in times where I was looking for the thrill of the buy or to fill a void or need or??? Not sure, I bought and bought but then found that it didn't really make me happy. Remember fight club, " The things you own end up owning you..." So during my divorce, partly against my will I culled at least 75% of my parts and it did free me up some, I didn't have to stress over storing so much stuff for the 'someday' projects. I have collected a bit more parts in the last couple years but I try to keep it on the short term list not the someday projects:o If its tying you down, move on from it, free yourself!:thumb:

On another note, how is the prospect of relocating looking?

[5DIGITS]

There are many iterations of the T-III stuff (i.e. prototype, pre-production, early production, etc..) and their use is best determined by what level of hardware they have.
The major difference between the pre and early production units are distributor provisions and balance shaft existence.
This makes the T-III blocks with the distributor provision good for those that do not wish to change the entire harness while supporting mods to use the distributor in the stock location.
On the other hand, the prototypes were very thick castings and support porting beyond what can be achieved on any of the later heads while also being thicker in the freeze plug boss area.
These are typically identified by not having the airbox mounting bosses on the back of the head and confirmed by small trapezoidal bosses within the rocker shaft area.

In short, someone wanting to push the envelope with a T-III would best benefit by a prototype thick cast head and a block that supports a distributor without balance shafts.
While the later iterations are good for over-all general use and in some cases come with the distributor provision just in case there's a desire to utilize it.

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

well now that you've "outed" these motors maybe someone with a worthy project will come along

IF I had the coin for a factory 5 daytona coupe just now I'd be all over the TIII prototype in a heartbeat

eah but I'd be needin an extra shelby valve cover for the other side lol

[168glhs1986]

Sell what you dont need ( if you can ) and use the rest. Parts hoarding unless your a racer where your cycling thru parts on a regular basis just doesnt make sense.

In the past i would have made you an offer but I'm with Alan. My new philosophy is less is more.

Unless we are talking e30 m3 rear seats :)

[Johnny]

Buy a Consulier GTP and put one of those in it. :)

[Lotashelbys]

I vote a twin engine AWD 3rd gen Daytona.

Now that sounds like a fun project.......

[03tahoez71]

Now that sounds like a fun project.......

hhhmmm where did I hear that idea? except it was a 91 Shelby awd twin t3 setup.

[Reaper1]

Jeremy, I know that the one thing that if I was in your position that I would do is document everything you can.

I also know curiosity would eventually get the best of me and I would end up taking a peak inside them.

I dunno if I would run one simply because I personally would be afraid of something happening and some 1-off part gets demolished somehow. Otherwise, I would probably try to crack them off and see what they sound like anyway.

[iTurbo]

This thread resonates with me in a few ways. Jeremy, I have too collected more than I needed in times where I was looking for the thrill of the buy or to fill a void or need or??? Not sure, I bought and bought but then found that it didn't really make me happy. Remember fight club, " The things you own end up owning you..." So during my divorce, partly against my will I culled at least 75% of my parts and it did free me up some, I didn't have to stress over storing so much stuff for the 'someday' projects. I have collected a bit more parts in the last couple years but I try to keep it on the short term list not the someday projects:o If its tying you down, move on from it, free yourself!:thumb:

On another note, how is the prospect of relocating looking?


I hear ya. Between early '09 and up to '12 I was hoarding 16v parts. I tried to fill a need but nothing was going to make up for the loss that I experienced. I now have more parts than I will ever need. Just yesterday I pulled out all the parts needed to rebuild my white Spirit R/T and I was amazed at the nice/new parts I almost forgot I had ever purchased!

These prototype 16v engines though...I'm not sure if I'll ever use them considering how much my fleet of vehicles has shrank in the last two years. I paid a lot for them, but I'm not so sure I can recoup the money. I don't want to lose money of course.....the TIII wouldn't take much at all to make a runner out of it. The Masi 16v would take a bit more work due to the odd bits vs production.

Just to save a lot of headache, I would sell both for $5000. That would include all prototype/pre-production parts including valve covers and other parts. If not that I will probably just keep them for now.

[joelzip]

I packed that pallet you have! I remember screwing parts with band iron upside down and all over that thing, goofiest stuff to ship.

[iTurbo]

Yeah I was surprised when it showed up! I really had to look for the coveted TIII valve cover! But it all arrived just fine and for the most part they are still sitting on the pallet.

[J&H Ryan]

Yeah, that was fun. I have pictures somewhere. I was going "this guy is going to laugh when he sees this disaster", but it got 2 complete engines and tons of parts to you.

[turbovanman²]

Pictures?

If I had $5000, those would be mine, lol.

My 2 cents. I hate seeing things sit, I don't like it when people buy a rare car, IE a GN, and let it sit in a museum, so for me, I would either use them or sell them to someone who will use them in a build.

[J&H Ryan]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/BooGTS/engines/DSC00409_zps747f79e4.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/BooGTS/media/engines/DSC00409_zps747f79e4.jpg.html)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/BooGTS/engines/DSC00410_zpsdd215640.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/BooGTS/media/engines/DSC00410_zpsdd215640.jpg.html)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/BooGTS/engines/DSC00413_zps6934324c.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/BooGTS/media/engines/DSC00413_zps6934324c.jpg.html)

edit: Found the crazy shipping pics:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/BooGTS/IMAG1320_zps67b6de76.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/BooGTS/media/IMAG1320_zps67b6de76.jpg.html)


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/BooGTS/IMAG1321_zps691aa3d9.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/BooGTS/media/IMAG1321_zps691aa3d9.jpg.html)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/BooGTS/IMAG1322_zps350b9c01.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/BooGTS/media/IMAG1322_zps350b9c01.jpg.html)

I forgot I got 3 complete engines plus extras on a pallet. This is before everything was secured / Joel came by with plumber's strap.

[Ondonti]

So, I would think that based on standard collectable rules, modifying something to work would kill the collectable value (if there was or will be some value). Value to a racer is another thing.

[J&H Ryan]

If anyone buys turbo-mopar parts for investment value, you're going to have a bad time. I'd think the enjoyment received from one of those beauties pushing you back in your seat would exceed anything you'd get monetarily by storing all that for 20 years. The Shelby prototype covers on the other hand are small and should only be worth more.

[zin]

if an item is something that could be displayed and "bragged" about, it has collector value ( to my eyes). How much depends upon who's interested and how much"disposable" income that group have. In short, I'd enjoy your stuff and not worry that you might be defacing a piece of art.

Mike

[iTurbo]

Almost forgot about this. I didn't buy these for collector value at all. I only bought them because I'm an old school turbo Mopar fanatic and nothing is cooler than the TIII and Masi 16v in my book! The fact that either can be bolted into any old K or L based or or even a Caravan with little to no fabrication has it's allure, especially for somebody like me that has little resources to do custom parts myself.

So far I've got one of the Masi 16v engines installed in my Shelby Lancer and it is very close to running. I bolted an A568 to it and dropped it right in with little difficulty. The hardest part will be the wiring which I'm working on now. I do admit it is a bit sad to see these parts sit and I've sold a few cars in the last year alone that I would have liked to install them in. Changes with management/ownership at work have really made it a lot harder to have as many cars as I used to. I had to sell the Omni GLH, Shelby CSX, and a Spirit R/T. Believe me I would have loved to put one of these 16v engines in the GLH or CSX!

Lately I'm finding that I'm more into building engines than having cars. I have more than enough to keep me busy until I'm 300 years old, so maybe I should sell, but the only way that would be feasible is to rent a box truck and unload at SDAC but I can't make it this year. I don't mind holding onto them. If somebody made me an offer I couldn't refuse I'd think about it of course.

I've had a couple people express interest in the proto TIII. They are building cars that would be very deserving of that engine so that means something.

[Reaper1]

If at some point the stars were to align and you wanted to sell the prototype Masi and I had the funds...I'd be all over it! ;) :thumb:

[moparloper]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=54802&stc=1http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=54803&stc=1
There are many iterations of the T-III stuff (i.e. prototype, pre-production, early production, etc..) and their use is best determined by what level of hardware they have.
The major difference between the pre and early production units are distributor provisions and balance shaft existence.
This makes the T-III blocks with the distributor provision good for those that do not wish to change the entire harness while supporting mods to use the distributor in the stock location.
On the other hand, the prototypes were very thick castings and support porting beyond what can be achieved on any of the later heads while also being thicker in the freeze plug boss area.
These are typically identified by not having the airbox mounting bosses on the back of the head and confirmed by small trapezoidal bosses within the rocker shaft area.

In short, someone wanting to push the envelope with a T-III would best benefit by a prototype thick cast head and a block that supports a distributor without balance shafts.
While the later iterations are good for over-all general use and in some cases come with the distributor provision just in case there's a desire to utilize it. I take it that these are the bosses and lack of air box mounting you are referring to?

[moparloper]

Sorry for the thread hijack. I did have another question about the TIII prototypes; if the heads and blocks are different is there any differences in the cams?

[iTurbo]

No problem, and I hope somebody can answer your question on the prototype TIII camshafts. It might take a cam doctor to be sure though. The TIII prototype I have lacks the bosses for the airbox assembly and also has plug in the block for the distributor hole. The Masi 16v prototype I have has a very different valve cover than production models and also a very different thermostat outlet. So I'm sure they are both legit and appear to have very little run time. I'm sure neither was ever actually installed in a vehicle.




To be completely honest.... At this point in my life I just want out of this stuff. I hoarded like crazy after my twin brother died (sorry if thats TMI) because I just didn't know what else to do. I want to put this part of my life and my "iTurbo" persona behind me and become Jeremy Mitchell v2.0. I would love either to find the right buyer for these engines (5 TIIIs/5Masi 16v) or preferably somebody to just buy me out completely. I made a big mistake and I will take a HUGE financial loss but I'm still 37 and I need to find some real hapiness. Besides that I've already sold a few cars I had planned to put these in. I need to move on because life is too short and having this stuff lying around is not making me any happier.

[2.216VTurbo]

It's really not uncommon to 'collect' when you are trying to fill a void, I did it too AND took a loss when I pared down my stuff to a reasonable level:nod: If I didn't have 3 'spare' Masi motors and 2 heads, I'd be a buyer. I think realistically tho, I have enough powerplants to last me thru all future projects. Life is good again for me now and I hope you get to that point as well, I had hoped you'd fly into SDAC this year and we'd swap stories:o

[Wastelands Warrior]

No problem, and I hope somebody can answer your question on the prototype TIII camshafts. It might take a cam doctor to be sure though. The TIII prototype I have lacks the bosses for the airbox assembly and also has plug in the block for the distributor hole. The Masi 16v prototype I have has a very different valve cover than production models and also a very different thermostat outlet. So I'm sure they are both legit and appear to have very little run time. I'm sure neither was ever actually installed in a vehicle.




To be completely honest.... At this point in my life I just want out of this stuff. I hoarded like crazy after my twin brother died (sorry if thats TMI) because I just didn't know what else to do. I want to put this part of my life and my "iTurbo" persona behind me and become Jeremy Mitchell v2.0. I would love either to find the right buyer for these engines (5 TIIIs/5Masi 16v) or preferably somebody to just buy me out completely. I made a big mistake and I will take a HUGE financial loss but I'm still 37 and I need to find some real hapiness. Besides that I've already sold a few cars I had planned to put these in. I need to move on because life is too short and having this stuff lying around is not making me any happier.

I can feel for ya, bro. After my wife passed away in 2012 I can't even tell you how many cars I bought and sold and how many projects I started and didn't finish. But it helped keep me sane. The only vehicle I have left from then is my SRT-10 Ram, and I'm planning on keeping it for a loooooong time. :)

[turbovanman²]

Wish I could afford to buy your TIII stuff, maybe I can remortgage my house, :thumb:

[Wastelands Warrior]

Wish I could afford to buy your TIII stuff, maybe I can remortgage my house, :thumb:

House? I thought you Canucks lived in Igloos....;)

[MPI_duster]

To be completely honest.... At this point in my life I just want out of this stuff. I hoarded like crazy after my twin brother died (sorry if thats TMI) because I just didn't know what else to do. I want to put this part of my life and my "iTurbo" persona behind me and become Jeremy Mitchell v2.0. I would love either to find the right buyer for these engines (5 TIIIs/5Masi 16v) or preferably somebody to just buy me out completely. I made a big mistake and I will take a HUGE financial loss but I'm still 37 and I need to find some real hapiness. Besides that I've already sold a few cars I had planned to put these in. I need to move on because life is too short and having this stuff lying around is not making me any happier.

I'd have interest in some of this, if you still want to part with it. Let me know.

-Deryk

[5DIGITS]

I take it that these are the bosses and lack of air box mounting you are referring to?

Correct.

Additionally there are the tell-tale bosses within the rocker rail area.
As a side note, the three bosses circled in green are the original air box mounting holes.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56166&stc=1

From here, we can dig a little deeper and determine how early of a protoype it is.
Machined freeze plug bosses are earlier than the later units that left the cast material in place.