New to me 1990 Shelby Daytona VNT

[kuzman83]

I just purchased a black 1990 VNT Shelby Daytona. It has the AGS package, zero rust and a pretty clean interior. I did a little searching but haven't found much information on the AGS cars or VNT engines. My experience is mostly limited to TII and TI cars with a dash of the new 2.4 SRT stuff. Anything to look out for? What is the significance of the AGS package? Any info, experiences, opinions or otherwise would be great! I'll post some pics of the car when it gets here.

[5DIGITS]

AGS is associated to the competition package which in your case, at a minimum, recognizes the use of an intercooled engine which all VNT's had.
If you are interested in a reliable VNT 14psi calibration that uses prototype unreleased software, send me a PM.

[ShelGame]

AGS is associated to the competition package which in your case, at a minimum, recognizes the use of an intercooled engine which all VNT's had.
If you are interested in a reliable VNT 14psi calibration that uses prototype unreleased software, send me a PM.

Is that the 'magazine' software? ;)

[5DIGITS]

Is that the 'magazine' software? ;)

Partially..
This was put together in 1990, refined in 92' and completed in 96'.
Two cars were brought to 13.6-13.8 @ 101MPH with it - pump gas/14psi/stable boost.
Easily identified because everything was also intentionally moved around in the chip. :D
Kind of a 'as time permits' process but fun along the way.

[2.216VTurbo]

So Ken, let's say a guy was interested for his mostly stock (good quality mandrel 2.5" exhaust) 89 CSX. Would he PM you about that too??:eyebrows:

[ShelGame]

Partially..
This was put together in 1990, refined in 92' and completed in 96'.
Two cars were brought to 13.6-13.8 @ 101MPH with it - pump gas/14psi/stable boost.
Easily identified because everything was also intentionally moved around in the chip. :D
Kind of a 'as time permits' process but fun along the way.

Ah, I see. Very cool.

I have a copy of what I think is the magazine cal. It has a modified VNT boost control routine, as well as a bov control(if I remember right). And everything was moved a little from the stock VNT cal.

It came from a yellow-wire SBEC...

[5DIGITS]

So Ken, let's say a guy was interested for his mostly stock (good quality mandrel 2.5" exhaust) 89 CSX. Would he PM you about that too??:eyebrows:

He might just do exactly that.

[5DIGITS]

Ah, I see. Very cool.

I have a copy of what I think is the magazine cal. It has a modified VNT boost control routine, as well as a bov control(if I remember right). And everything was moved a little from the stock VNT cal.

It came from a yellow-wire SBEC...

That sounds like the HO cal.
The original LeBaron and Daytona cals were HO while the Shadow was not.
As a service TSB fix along with a supporting vacuum harness change, the BOV was used to correct premature engine failure due to over-boost.
Although, it over-sped the turbo something terrible BUT kept the magazine reviews happy because they never hit the over boost shut-off point.
Little did they know that the compressor was emptying oil in the compressor housing due to over-speed.
The yellow wire is the Rom-Aid controller which was original unit that launched the ability to use two separate chips (eprom vs Dallas 1225/1228 battery backed ram) and provide "on the fly" changes in 1990.

[ShelGame]

That sounds like the HO cal.
The original LeBaron and Daytona cals were HO while the Shadow was not.
As a service TSB fix along with a supporting vacuum harness change, the BOV was used to correct premature engine failure due to over-boost.
Although, it over-sped the turbo something terrible BUT kept the magazine reviews happy because they never hit the over boost shut-off point.
Little did they know that the compressor was emptying oil in the compressor housing due to over-speed.
The slight shift in that cal is due to some added cal values and minor code to provide the BOV logic.

I believe I posted the cal here in the repository if you wanted to have a look at it...

[5DIGITS]

I believe I posted the cal here in the repository if you wanted to have a look at it...

I'll compare it to all the versions and see if we have a match.
If it came from a Rom-Aid controller there may be subtle differences which should be identifiable.

[ShelGame]

I checked; I hadn't posted it after all. I'll put it up later today...

[5DIGITS]

I checked; I hadn't posted it after all. I'll put it up later today...

Ok - Sounds good.
BTW
There were two main types of 'edit on the fly' controllers (Rom-Aids) between 1990 and 1992.
If you still have the module, does it have the Dallas battery backed RAM or multiple EEproms?
I ask because if the battery is still good, the RAM can be pulled so you'll also have the 'edited' values (if any).
If it's the EEprom version, you may need to paste the tables back together - because they may have been parsed/segmented into each EE chip.
This is all if you still have it and are interested in doing so.

Let me know when its posted and I'll compare it for you.

[ShelGame]

OK, its posted.

Sorry for the thread hijack...

[Reaper1]

I just purchased a black 1990 VNT Shelby Daytona. It has the AGS package, zero rust and a pretty clean interior. I did a little searching but haven't found much information on the AGS cars or VNT engines. My experience is mostly limited to TII and TI cars with a dash of the new 2.4 SRT stuff. Anything to look out for? What is the significance of the AGS package? Any info, experiences, opinions or otherwise would be great! I'll post some pics of the car when it gets here.

Kuzman83, did you buy this car from a person in Washington state by chance?

[kuzman83]

Yes I did. I had it shipped here, scheduled to arrive Tuesday this week.

[Reaper1]

Ironic. Myself and another member from TD were both supposed to go look at the car and the guy just stopped contacting us. Oh well.

[kuzman83]

Odd. He never mentioned anyone else being interested. I contacted him within a couple hours of the post going up and mostly just emailed back and forth. Great guy to deal with for what its worth. And the car is going to a nice climate controlled garage so it'll be well taken care of.

[Reaper1]

Well, I'm glad to hear it seems like it's going to a good home. I Found out about it about a week after it went up apparently, and the other person that was interested in it was on TD and he had heard about it before me.

I hope it's a great car! It looked to be! :thumb:

BTW, it's not an AGS car. It's just a Shelby VNT...but that's still rare in its own right.

[kuzman83]

I have decided to post my progress here as I get things accomplished. First project was to re-do all the vac lines. I have a couple more lines to run for the VNT solenoids, should have it up and running this afternoon. The hose going from the intake to the vac block is a "emissions hose" for a dodge from the help section at auto zone. Couldn't have worked out better!

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/kuzman83/IMAG0813.jpg (http://s265.photobucket.com/user/kuzman83/media/IMAG0813.jpg.html)

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/kuzman83/IMAG0814.jpg (http://s265.photobucket.com/user/kuzman83/media/IMAG0814.jpg.html)

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/kuzman83/IMAG0821.jpg (http://s265.photobucket.com/user/kuzman83/media/IMAG0821.jpg.html)

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/kuzman83/IMAG0823.jpg (http://s265.photobucket.com/user/kuzman83/media/IMAG0823.jpg.html)

[Reaper1]

Make sure you put all of the correct orifices and 1-way valves in the new system.

[kuzman83]

As far as I could see on the vac diagrams I've looked at the only two I removed were the check valves for the purge canister and the green oriface on one of the vnt solenoids. The check valves and lines for the cruise control all looked like they were in decent shape so I left those alone.

Once I'm done with these lines I have a K&N drop in filter to put in, new fuel filter, spark plugs, wires cap and rotor that need to go on. I did check the timing and it was retarded 10 degrees or so. Makes me thing the dist. is off at least one tooth. After the motor work is done I'll be tackling the headliner and interior issues.

[kuzman83]

I went to finish up installing my new vac lines and found one of the nipples broken off on the #1 VNT solenoid. At a stand still until I can find another one. Off to the classifieds....

[Reaper1]

I think it might be a pretty common solenoid. Check out how it works by hot wiring it and blowing through the nipple (wow, that sounds so wrong). Then check the others. What you might find is that you can get it at the junkyard for a few bucks.

[kuzman83]

Well I managed to find one from a guy that is parting out a VNT car so that is all taken care of. I still have a couple issues though, looking for some insight. When I first start the car it runs great, throttle response is fine, revs up no problem. Then after about 2-3 mins of running, I hear a very noticeable humming sound from the rear of the car (fuel pump). As soon as the humming sound starts, the car starts misfiring, no throttle response, runs like crap. The humming noise will get gradually higher pitched and then eventually stop, as soon as the noise stops, the car smooths out and runs great again. Here is the list of items I've replaced:

Fuel filter (both in tank and in line)
Fuel pressure regulator
All the vac lines
ASD relay

I have a spare Walbro laying around I am going to install today to see if that fixes it. The humming noise is directly related to a drop in fuel pressure. As soon as the noise starts the pressure drops. The only thing other than the pump itself I can think would cause this would be the computer. Any other suggestions?

[ShelGame]

The computer doesn't control the fuel pump except to turn it on via the ASD.

I the computer was cycling the ASD, it would also affect the coil and injectors, which are also powered thru the ASD.

I think the pumps have an internal pressure relief valve. Maybe that is sticky or leaking? Maybe the sock is clogged or pinched?

[2.216VTurbo]

Some of the pumps don't have that little ridge/nipple on the outlet from the pump. I had a similar issue, sometimes OK then after warm up total Crap! The hose was pushing off of the pump outlet partially when everything warmed up. Strangely enough, it was also a Daytona...

[kuzman83]

Well I installed the Walbro and the problem is gone. Runs great now so on to the next problem. The turbo is overboosting like crazy. I checked all my vac lines at least a dozen times and everything looks to be hooked up correctly, including the green oriface. The only vac related change I made was the diameter of the line that goes from VNT solenoid #1 to the top nipple on the vnt controller on the turbo. It is 3/16" instead of the 1/4" line it was from the factory. Would this make a difference? Other than that I need to start going through my fsm and powertrain diagnostics books and start trouble shooting. I am not sure how to check the vanes on the turbo for movement other than maybe taking it off. I do have an extra solenoid pack with vnt #2 and 3 I might try swapping out and see if that makes a difference.

[5DIGITS]

Well I installed the Walbro and the problem is gone. Runs great now so on to the next problem. The turbo is overboosting like crazy. I checked all my vac lines at least a dozen times and everything looks to be hooked up correctly, including the green oriface. The only vac related change I made was the diameter of the line that goes from VNT solenoid #1 to the top nipple on the vnt controller on the turbo. It is 3/16" instead of the 1/4" line it was from the factory. Would this make a difference? Other than that I need to start going through my fsm and powertrain diagnostics books and start trouble shooting. I am not sure how to check the vanes on the turbo for movement other than maybe taking it off. I do have an extra solenoid pack with vnt #2 and 3 I might try swapping out and see if that makes a difference.

Does this vehicle have the catalyst removed, a low restriction muffler or both??

I'd suggest staying with the factory line sizes and plumbing architecture (A don't know the confidence level that comes with using vacuum blocks and the added volume).
The lower actuator nipple opens the vanes to support exhaust flow during vacuum conditions while the upper actuator nipple opens the vanes during boost control.
As a test, run a vacuum line directly from the intake to the upper actuator nipple to eliminate the all of the solenoids, the vacuum line plumbing and isolate the test to the actuator and turbo.
This will also indicate what the "minimum attainable boost" is for the turbo.
The production units were all over the place... 8-9psi is a desired result during this test while 10-12psi can be realized on poorly built units.

[kuzman83]

Good to know, I will try that. The car does have the cat removed by the previous owner, muffler however is stock.

[cordes]

Good to know, I will try that. The car does have the cat removed by the previous owner, muffler however is stock.

That's a huge bonus. I'll be trying very hard in the coming weeks to make my CSX play nice with the boost. We'll see if I can tame it for this year. If I can it'll be incredible.

[kuzman83]

Update here. The turbo has left the building..... once I got all my vacuum lines figured out it was running great. I was driving it almost daily for 3 or 4 weeks with no problems until the turbo started acting funny. It would boost to the moon but the car wouldn't go anywhere. Seemed like it was loading up on boost as if the vanes were getting stuck, then I'm assuming the vanes would blow open because the boost would drop to about 10-12 and the car would take off.....quite violently. After horsing around with it for a few weeks I cut bait and threw on a ported t2 head with ported manifolds and a t2 turbo. Sending the comp. To Cindy this week. I saved all the vnt items in case someday I become bored and decide to crack Pandoras box for 2xx horsepower, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. T2 for now. Next up is a little body work and cutting my teeth in a paint booth. Wish me luck!