315 Horse Ford Focus RS to be sold in U.S.

[johnl]

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/02/03/2016-ford-focus-rs-official/

Amazing . . . , arguably, what Mopar started. . . .

[83scamp]

As much as I hate to admit it, that is one bad looking hot hatch. Of course, I'm sure it's going to come with a price to match...

Ford has been doing some pretty impressive stuff lately... Hopefully FCA sees the light and catches up...

[bgbmxer]

I hope the dart is going to compete with this and not be a bust.

[83scamp]

I hope the dart is going to compete with this and not be a bust.

I wouldn't hold my breath.... I hate to say that, but recent FCA products haven't exactly flipped my lid.

I thought the new 200 was beautiful, until I sat in one. Since when was it OK to make a mid sized car a 6' 3" guy can't sit in??? Major disappointment... I don't even want to try and squeeze into a Dart...

[contraption22]

I want one.
But as the saying goes, I can "want" in one hand......

[bgbmxer]

I wouldn't hold my breath.... I hate to say that, but recent FCA products haven't exactly flipped my lid.

I thought the new 200 was beautiful, until I sat in one. Since when was it OK to make a mid sized car a 6' 3" guy can't sit in??? Major disappointment... I don't even want to try and squeeze into a Dart...

I'm a short guy and have never driven a dart but have ridden in the back of a friends and was suprised with all the room inside I had prolly 8 inches before my knees hit the seat. Not sure about the headroom tho. The 200 doesn't for me the 300 does tho.

[zin]

This would be the first new car to meet my self-imposed requirements: 1. turbo 2. AWD 3. domestic 4. NOT land-barge/SUV...

Now the big question is going to be... how much?...

Mike

[83scamp]

This would be the first new car to meet my self-imposed requirements: 1. turbo 2. AWD 3. domestic 4. NOT land-barge/SUV...

Now the big question is going to be... how much?...

Mike

#3 is a bit questionable... it is a Ford, but per the article, all the RS models will be built in germany.... BUT, I get where you are coming from...

[contraption22]

#3 is a bit questionable... it is a Ford, but per the article, all the RS models will be built in germany.... BUT, I get where you are coming from...

Agreed. The Hellcat is built in Canada in a factory owned by an Italian company. What qualifies as "domestic" now anyway?

[thedon809]

Agreed. The Hellcat is built in Canada in a factory owned by an Italian company. What qualifies as "domestic" now anyway?I like how people bring up the fact that the big 3 make cars in Canada like its something new. The Chrysler Windsor plant in one form or another has been cranking out mopars (and the predecessors to mopars) since 1916. It was actually the ONLY plant making the first Chrysler branded cars. The dodge brothers made parts and cars in Canada since the early 1900's. Walter P Chrysler's dad was Canadian. Chrysler was as much (or more) Canadian as it was american.

[2.216VTurbo]

I've got 35K miles now on my AWD Ford turbo, not a bit of trouble so far (tho the Ecoboost forum guys say I need to change the PTU fluid before it cooks) and I'd buy it again. Great car, a little heavy but it's a car platform, not an SUV. I gotta have 7 passengers worth of room for my DD:nod:

[88C/S]

Agreed. The Hellcat is built in Canada in a factory owned by an Italian company. What qualifies as "domestic" now anyway?
Most likely where the corporate offices are, wait.....Fiat is in Italy!

[contraption22]

I like how people bring up the fact that the big 3 make cars in Canada like its something new. The Chrysler Windsor plant in one form or another has been cranking out mopars (and the predecessors to mopars) since 1916. It was actually the ONLY plant making the first Chrysler branded cars. The dodge brothers made parts and cars in Canada since the early 1900's. Walter P Chrysler's dad was Canadian. Chrysler was as much (or more) Canadian as it was american.

So when did Canada become a state? Before 1916?

I'm not saying it's new. I'm just say that if we're going to label a car "domestic", that should be defined.

How about we just say any car company based in country the United States had never declared war on is "domestic".

[Oggie Fisher]

I believe the corporate offices are in London, and the company is registered in the Netherlands.
In the domestic vs import debate what matters more - the nationality of the company or the place of assembly? If you go with the latter there are an awful lot of Toyotas, Hondas, BMWs that are made in America.

[zin]

What makes the difference to me is where the money goes in the end, with ford it's America,
so in my mind they're domestic, though I'll admit, the argument can be made for others.

Mike

[ForzaV12]

What makes the difference to me is where the money goes in the end, with ford it's America,
so in my mind they're domestic, though I'll admit, the argument can be made for others.

Mike

Of course, this is what's important. The automotive industry is global now and that will never change. Our domestic manufacturers had no desire to produce home grown platforms out of the country but were forced to in order to compete. Once folks abandoned any sense of "buy American" in order to flock to government and trade subsidized foreign cars, it was game over. The foreign companies came here and destroyed our parts and accessory manufacturing as well with free land, zero taxation, subsidized wages, long term profit less pricing strategies to build market share-all with the approval of our corrupt politicians and ignorant consumers(willing to sacrifice good jobs, our manufacturing base and much more in order to save a few bucks).
Even now, the maggots at Toyota continue to manipulate currency(with full approval of their government) in order to build a multi billion dollar war chest for product development and unfair pricing strategies. I don't know how folks can sleep at night with a Toyota in the driveway. Yes, I feel that strongly about it.

[83scamp]

Within the auto industry, Canadian products are lumped in with USA products. Fiercely so. When my Dad was still working, he had several companies that made parts for him in Canada. Don't you dare show up in a "foreign" car to see them... A saleman showed up in a Volvo while he was up there.... They escorted him off the property and told him to come back when he could buy "American".

So I have no issue with the Hellcat being built in Canada...

I have changed my tune a lot in the last few years regarding what I buy. I used to be fiercely loyal to Mopar, but when my wife wanted a new vehicle, we didn't like anything they offered, so I went out and drove everything, GM, Ford, you name it. Ended up buying a Kia Sorento(built in Georgia). It offered what we wanted, and we like the styling better than anything else...

I really woke up back in 2008. I was looking for a small car that got great mileage for me to drive to work. I had a Dodge Stratus, but 25 mpg was killing me driving 90 miles a day. I ended up being one of the first folks in Indiana to buy the new smart fortwo. Go ahead and laugh, but it gets 43 mpg all the time, and 7 years and 171,000 miles later, it's the best car I've ever owned... I've put less than $100 total in repairs during that time, and I would get in it tomorrow and drive across the country if I had to. It doesn't use oil, it doesn't leak, it just works... every day...

[thedon809]

What makes the difference to me is where the money goes in the end, with ford it's America,
so in my mind they're domestic, though I'll admit, the argument can be made for others.

MikeSince fiat took over Chrysler, they have invested hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars in the USA. They have invested $374,000,000 in the kokomo Indiana transmission plant alone.

[contraption22]

What makes the difference to me is where the money goes in the end, with ford it's America,
so in my mind they're domestic, though I'll admit, the argument can be made for others.

Mike

This is true. It depends on which monies you are referring to. As mentioned many of the "foreign" car companies spend money in the United States employing US workers, building assembly plants and offices. It's become so grey to me that really doesn't sway my preference in vehicles anymore.

[contraption22]

I really woke up back in 2008. I was looking for a small car that got great mileage for me to drive to work. I had a Dodge Stratus, but 25 mpg was killing me driving 90 miles a day. I ended up being one of the first folks in Indiana to buy the new smart fortwo. Go ahead and laugh, but it gets 43 mpg all the time, and 7 years and 171,000 miles later, it's the best car I've ever owned... I've put less than $100 total in repairs during that time, and I would get in it tomorrow and drive across the country if I had to. It doesn't use oil, it doesn't leak, it just works... every day...

There is a ForTwo that I often seem to be in front of or behind during my daily commute into work. I can't help but look at it and wonder how much they are saving in gas, and if it is worth putting their life on the line for it.

I'll take two tons of Jeep and 10/20 mpg, thanks.

[ForzaV12]

Within the auto industry, Canadian products are lumped in with USA products. Fiercely so. When my Dad was still working, he had several companies that made parts for him in Canada. Don't you dare show up in a "foreign" car to see them... A saleman showed up in a Volvo while he was up there.... They escorted him off the property and told him to come back when he could buy "American".

So I have no issue with the Hellcat being built in Canada...

I have changed my tune a lot in the last few years regarding what I buy. I used to be fiercely loyal to Mopar, but when my wife wanted a new vehicle, we didn't like anything they offered, so I went out and drove everything, GM, Ford, you name it. Ended up buying a Kia Sorento(built in Georgia). It offered what we wanted, and we like the styling better than anything else...

I really woke up back in 2008. I was looking for a small car that got great mileage for me to drive to work. I had a Dodge Stratus, but 25 mpg was killing me driving 90 miles a day. I ended up being one of the first folks in Indiana to buy the new smart fortwo. Go ahead and laugh, but it gets 43 mpg all the time, and 7 years and 171,000 miles later, it's the best car I've ever owned... I've put less than $100 total in repairs during that time, and I would get in it tomorrow and drive across the country if I had to. It doesn't use oil, it doesn't leak, it just works... every day...

I wouldn't buy a Korean car either. nearly impossible to buy one of our cars in Korea because of protectionist legislation-a few years back they sent our president packing after basically telling him to pound sand regarding fair trade with automobiles. They too, skirt regs with sweetheart local deals that give them free land, reduced taxes and other un-needed advantages provided by areas willing to sell their souls for a quick buck.


Since fiat took over Chrysler, they have invested hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars in the USA. They have invested $374,000,000 in the kokomo Indiana transmission plant alone.

Of course they have. They were given Chrysler for essentially nothing. I said from the get go that it was a great merger(while many here were calling it a disaster) and I'm glad that Mopar is basically saving their bacon now with record profits(shoring up the weak European market). It never should have gotten to that point-I'm surprised Mopar survived after the raping and pillaging from Mercedes and Cerebus. Shameful.

This is true. It depends on which monies you are referring to. As mentioned many of the "foreign" car companies spend money in the United States employing US workers, building assembly plants and offices. It's become so grey to me that really doesn't sway my preference in vehicles anymore.

Sure they do. Sweetheart deals and BS allowed this to happen after those same countries used their government tills, home base customer loyalty, protectionism and unfair trade to establish a beach head here. It never could have happened if we hadn't been so willing to let the Trojan horses in. Of course, our manufacturers weren't blameless as they produced some pure crap during the late 70s-80s. No longer the case and I don't understand buying any regular foreign car(exotics,etc are completely different segments) when a comparable domestic is available.

[contraption22]

Of course they have. They were given Chrysler for essentially nothing. I said from the get go that it was a great merger(while many here were calling it a disaster) and I'm glad that Mopar is basically saving their bacon now with record profits(shoring up the weak European market). It never should have gotten to that point-I'm surprised Mopar survived after the raping and pillaging from Mercedes and Cerebus. Shameful.


Sure they do. Sweetheart deals and BS allowed this to happen after those same countries used their government tills, home base customer loyalty, protectionism and unfair trade to establish a beach head here. It never could have happened if we hadn't been so willing to let the Trojan horses in. Of course, our manufacturers weren't blameless as they produced some pure crap during the late 70s-80s. No longer the case and I don't understand buying any regular foreign car(exotics,etc are completely different segments) when a comparable domestic is available.


I put a large amount of blame on the unions and the politicians that work so hard to protect them for the current situation. It could have been prevented if the US Auto Industry was allowed to be focused on overall quality than anything else, instead of being squeezed from both ends by the government and their own workers. If they had focused on quality, the profits would have come.

[83scamp]

There is a ForTwo that I often seem to be in front of or behind during my daily commute into work. I can't help but look at it and wonder how much they are saving in gas, and if it is worth putting their life on the line for it.

I'll take two tons of Jeep and 10/20 mpg, thanks.


Well, that's the cool thing, different strokes for different folks. I have never felt threatened or unsafe in my smart. In fact, it passed with flying colors every test IIHS has thrown at it. People look at the small size and think that's all there is to it. Kind of like a lot of folks look at us TM guys and wonder about us... There is a lot of engineering went into that little chassis to keep the passengers safe. Truth is, IIHS just release a report of overall accident and death rates for vehicle sold here since 2008, and the smart is statistically, one of the safer cars sold...

Sorry to get so off topic... :)

[shadow88]

On paper, sounds like an sti beater. Hopefully Dodge and the rest of the market will release a competitor rather than another also-ran.

[contraption22]

Well, that's the cool thing, different strokes for different folks. I have never felt threatened or unsafe in my smart. In fact, it passed with flying colors every test IIHS has thrown at it. People look at the small size and think that's all there is to it. Kind of like a lot of folks look at us TM guys and wonder about us... There is a lot of engineering went into that little chassis to keep the passengers safe. Truth is, IIHS just release a report of overall accident and death rates for vehicle sold here since 2008, and the smart is statistically, one of the safer cars sold...

Sorry to get so off topic... :)

Thats comforting to know that they are safer than they appear.

[thedon809]

I rode in a smart before. It was hilarious and horrible at the same time.

[zin]

This is true. It depends on which monies you are referring to. As mentioned many of the "foreign" car companies spend money in the United States employing US workers, building assembly plants and offices. It's become so grey to me that really doesn't sway my preference in vehicles anymore.

The "in the end" money is what I use as the yardstick as to "is it foreign or domestic", do the profits stay here or go overseas? If they stay here, it's domestic, if it goes elsewhere, it's foreign.

Which makes Chrysler a tough call, since they have been "foreign owned" for some time now, but having been part of the "Big Three" it's kind of pre-programed that they are domestic, which technically I guess they are not.

Next we can look at how much of a car is "domestic" compared to foreign, and make a call that way, but it's certainly a tougher thing to figure out, if one cares to support the "most domestic" import, the supply chain as well as location of assembly are factors, and we could also include repair parts an it's supply chain...

Makes for a potentially frustrating situation for those who are thoughtful in these things.

Mike

PS I hate to admit it, but my Step-Mom also bought a "Smart for Two" a few years ago (a convertible at that!). So far I've been able to avoid riding in it, but they enjoy it... somehow.

[mcsvt]

I just wish they were 2015, not 2016. I want one now.

[Ubmbass]

I will be trading in my ST for an RS when they come out. I have wanted an RS for years!! My ST put 275hp and 365lb ft of torque, I'd love to have AWD and more power, my omni has no traction, my Focus has no traction, my van had little traction. I'm ready for some power to the ground.

http://www.focusst.org/forum/attachments/focus-st-builds/83433d1423059970-white-sheep-rallysportdirect-com-focus-st-shop-car-20150202_171453.jpg

[Ondonti]

I will be trading in my ST for an RS when they come out. I have wanted an RS for years!! My ST put 275hp and 365lb ft of torque, I'd love to have AWD and more power, my omni has no traction, my Focus has no traction, my van had little traction. I'm ready for some power to the ground.

http://www.focusst.org/forum/attachments/focus-st-builds/83433d1423059970-white-sheep-rallysportdirect-com-focus-st-shop-car-20150202_171453.jpg

What do the guys at rallysport think of this car vs the Japanese stuff? Is it all voodoo or what. I figure people know exactly what drivetrain and engine capabilities are and what modifications can be done to improve the Japanese stuff. Not fun to build something up and realize there is a dealbreaker.
I do not understand why Ford never sold AWD here.

[83scamp]

Next we can look at how much of a car is "domestic" compared to foreign, and make a call that way, but it's certainly a tougher thing to figure out, if one cares to support the "most domestic" import, the supply chain as well as location of assembly are factors, and we could also include repair parts an it's supply chain...

Makes for a potentially frustrating situation for those who are thoughtful in these things.

Mike

PS I hate to admit it, but my Step-Mom also bought a "Smart for Two" a few years ago (a convertible at that!). So far I've been able to avoid riding in it, but they enjoy it... somehow.


I hear you on that... My Dad purchased a Toyota Tundra back in '07, and a bunch of guys he worked with at the time gave him a bunch of crap for buying a "Jap" truck... the worst one was a guy with a Chevy Avalanche. Dad looked up the US content on both vehicles. The Toyota was over 80% US made, the Avalanche? About 50%. Shut that guy up pretty quick...

As far as the smart... glad your Mother-in-law enjoys hers. I enjoy mine. Try it you might like it...;) I'm not trying to convince anybody here to own one, it's not for everybody. Reminds me of the decals I see on Jeeps a lot: if you have to ask, you wouldn't understand... I enjoy it like I enjoy my Scamp, just for very different reasons. If you had told me 10 years ago I could have this much fun with 70 hp, I'd have told you that you were nuts...

Like I said before, different strokes for different folks...:D

[Ubmbass]

What do the guys at rallysport think of this car vs the Japanese stuff? Is it all voodoo or what. I figure people know exactly what drivetrain and engine capabilities are and what modifications can be done to improve the Japanese stuff. Not fun to build something up and realize there is a dealbreaker.
I do not understand why Ford never sold AWD here.

Actually, COBB Tuning, RallySport Direct and a lot of other companies are really excited for this new platform. COBB has really been getting into the ecoboost market with their Accessports and intake/exhaust/downpipes and are looking forward to making parts for this car. They have done a great job so far on the 15 Mustang's 2.3. Working at RSD gives me a few perks as I am able to do some early testing on some of the parts being released for the Focus.

This will be a huge breakthrough car in this market, there will finally be a USDM (of sorts) car to compete with the Subarus.

Corby

[thedon809]

I hear you on that... My Dad purchased a Toyota Tundra back in '07, and a bunch of guys he worked with at the time gave him a bunch of crap for buying a "Jap" truck... the worst one was a guy with a Chevy Avalanche. Dad looked up the US content on both vehicles. The Toyota was over 80% US made, the Avalanche? About 50%. Shut that guy up pretty quick...

As far as the smart... glad your Mother-in-law enjoys hers. I enjoy mine. Try it you might like it...;) I'm not trying to convince anybody here to own one, it's not for everybody. Reminds me of the decals I see on Jeeps a lot: if you have to ask, you wouldn't understand... I enjoy it like I enjoy my Scamp, just for very different reasons. If you had told me 10 years ago I could have this much fun with 70 hp, I'd have told you that you were nuts...

Like I said before, different strokes for different folks...:DThe tundra has the most ridiculous looking shifter I have ever seen. It's massive. They are a PITA to work on and expensive to fix. We have a guy with a 2010 tundra who comes to my shop regularly (dodge dealer, he bought it from us used). I have had to replace the charcoal canister with evap solenoid, like 600 dollars for that part. Rear wheel bearings had to be replaced (something crazy like $400 each). The hardest wheel bearings I have ever had the displeasure doing. The bearings were pressed onto the axle shaft with such a tight fit, our big press was twisting like a pretzel until it popped loose. It sounded like a 12 gauge going off. It had problems with abs and traction control but we sent it over to toyota next door for that.

[sdac guy]

So when did Canada become a state? Before 1916?

I'm not saying it's new. I'm just say that if we're going to label a car "domestic", that should be defined.

How about we just say any car company based in country the United States had never declared war on is "domestic".

Whoa, hold on there Mike. Haven't you ever seen 'Canadian Bacon' ? :clap:


Barry

[ATaylorRacing]

There is a ForTwo that I often seem to be in front of or behind during my daily commute into work. I can't help but look at it and wonder how much they are saving in gas......

The Smart Car is just a gimmick...like the 500...premium gas and only 40 mpg for the 2016 model Smart. The larger Mazda 6 is rated at 40 while the 3 is rated at 41. The Prius is rated at 51 city and 48 hiway...our 2011 always gets over 50 in warm weather and we have seen 62 on a long 55 mph stint...2 mpg better than a 96 Geo Metro that had homemade headlight covers, grill block, and 140 lbs of wt removed.

[supercrackerbox]

I will be trading in my ST for an RS when they come out. I have wanted an RS for years!! My ST put 275hp and 365lb ft of torque, I'd love to have AWD and more power, my omni has no traction, my Focus has no traction, my van had little traction. I'm ready for some power to the ground.

http://www.focusst.org/forum/attachments/focus-st-builds/83433d1423059970-white-sheep-rallysportdirect-com-focus-st-shop-car-20150202_171453.jpg

Is that Cobb tuner kit all it's cracked up to be? How user friendly is it?

[mcsvt]

Is that Cobb tuner kit all it's cracked up to be? How user friendly is it?

I use the Cobb Accessport on my WRX, it's very user friendly, before I went with a "Pro Tune" I was using their Access Race tuner program, it's like a turbocharged version of what we us for TM's. I had to adjust my wastegate tables to account for an EBCS and it was very easy. Logging is supper easy too.

[2.216VTurbo]

Actually, COBB Tuning, RallySport Direct and a lot of other companies are really excited for this new platform. COBB has really been getting into the ecoboost market with their Accessports and intake/exhaust/downpipes and are looking forward to making parts for this car. They have done a great job so far on the 15 Mustang's 2.3. Working at RSD gives me a few perks as I am able to do some early testing on some of the parts being released for the Focus.

This will be a huge breakthrough car in this market, there will finally be a USDM (of sorts) car to compete with the Subarus.

Corby

Unfortunately that was not my experience with them out here in Cali. I tried to rent AWD dyno time from them last year for some baseline 'before' pulls and tuning on my Ecoboost Explorer Sport, 3 calls and a couple emails into them and they were too busy to care or respond:mad: I ended up at a Porsche shop called GMG Motorsports. They were great and I'd use them again. Maybe COBB is not into the 3.5 EB powerplant but I don't see why not. I see at least 4-5 E Sports a day and lots have visual mods, I'm sure those guys are tuning too.

[RoadWarrior222]

So when did Canada become a state? Before 1916?

I'm not saying it's new. I'm just say that if we're going to label a car "domestic", that should be defined.

How about we just say any car company based in country the United States had never declared war on is "domestic".

Heh, that makes Peugeot, Citroen, Renault domestic, but models like the "last real american car" Crown Victoria not.

[contraption22]

Here's an interesting look at "American cars" by domestic content.

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=ami

[85boostbox]

Alright my 2 cents. All you guys in here saying that domestic keeps the money here, please save it. It is a VERY well known fact that the "other big 3" employ more american citizens than the big 3. Your argument about keeping money here is void and invalid. Money spending starts with the american citizens, so employing american citizens, and in turn them spending money in our borders, is keeping money here. Not some global company to where you, the american citizen, will NEVER see that money.

So again, please save it.

[supercrackerbox]

How about this- Buying a Ford F-series, Chevy Malibu, Buick Lacrosse, Ram Trucks, Dodge Viper, John Deere farm implement, or Caterpillar implement helps keep ME, personally, employed. :)

Thank you.

[85boostbox]

It won't be my fault if someone sends your job overseas. That has been proven, when they first started doing it. They could have record sales, but if it saves them money and some one else will do it cheaper, than guess what, they're going to get it. Blame the bean counters in big corps, not the people buying.

[85boostbox]

Oh and I might add, this is coming from a person that doesn't have a single "foreign" car in his stable. And I have 5 cars :)

[thedon809]

Chrysler used to make a lot more stuff here until mercedes raped them and sold everything to line their pockets (Huntsville plant that made electronics).

[Ondonti]

Oh and I might add, this is coming from a person that doesn't have a single "foreign" car in his stable. And I have 5 cars :)

Time to sell that Chevy and buy a Fiat with one of those much stronger Hemi Engines. Support America.

[85boostbox]

Time to sell that Chevy and buy a Fiat with one of those much stronger Hemi Engines. Support America.
Hey this Chevy has 140k on it and still runs high reliable 14's and does whatever I want it to do. I'll pass lol ;)

[ATaylorRacing]

My 10 second "American Iron" Z 28 was built in Canada...I guess by American they mean N America! On a side note...my 96 Geo Metro was also built there as were a ton of mini-vans.

[ATaylorRacing]

Ummmmm....Livernois has a Ecoboost 4 banger Mustang running in the 11s....I expect the RS to be too heavy compared to our old school cars and they should get mid 11s out of it. Weird, my 99 Z28 is the same wt as our Prius!

[RoadWarrior222]

Some of those F bodies were tanks. ~4000lb

My Nissan was Hecho en Mexico, which is no different than any current US nameplate small hatchback I can think of. My Escort was made in Wayne Michigan, and my Voyager in Windsor Ontario.

My excuse for the Nissan, is that if FCA had got their thumb out of their arse and got a PandaII or derived platform mini Jeep into the dealerships, then maybe I would have been there instead of the Nissan dealer. They've only been teasing that possibility for 5 years.

Supporting the home team is all well and good, but if the game is say, hockey, and they turn up dressed for water polo, then maybe you're better off rooting for a team that's actually playing the right game.

[jeff1234]

My regular daily driver is a 2012 Focus and I love it, a great car. I salivated over the RS when I received my "My Ford" magazine last week. I would like to have one but I am retired and on fixed income and can't afford the payment. I'm not whining, just sayin! Practically speaking it wouldn't make much sense to have a high powered daily driver AND a high powered Turbo-Mopar, I would be certain to come down with a case of the tickets! HAHAHAH

[RoadWarrior222]

Maybe we get allll the neat stuff in a year or two...
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-31101842

[135sohc]

How about this- Buying a Ford F-series, Chevy Malibu, Buick Lacrosse, Ram Trucks, Dodge Viper, John Deere farm implement, or Caterpillar implement helps keep ME, personally, employed. :)

Thank you.

Does chrysler still spec 409 for exhaust or have they cheapened out even more now ?