new Venolia forged pistons only $80 each + s/h??

[acannell]

Just spoke to Doug at Venolia. He says forged pistons for the 2.5 would be $72.75 each at qty 4, plus a $30 hazardous waste fee (total) for 4, plus about $15 shipping. He says there is no sales tax to Southern California because they come from out of state. (That doesnt make sense to me but whatever). Locks included. These would be custom made to whatever you want.

So if you are in the following situation:

-block has good bores within spec and match each other enough
-have good rings you can reuse
-have good pins you can reuse

You could upgrade to forged for pretty darn cheap IMO. Heck sell your cast Mahles for $50 each and you could probably do the whole forged upgrade for $150!

Heres all the other pricing info I've gathered on forged. If anything is wrong just let me know.

My comments:

If you need the full shebang of pistons + rings + locks + pins, looks like TU and FWDP have the best deals, and are basically the same price if you go by their website pricing and assume $15 for shipping.

If you just want the pistons and locks, made to match your existing pins, rings, and bores, Venolia has by far the best price at $336 shipped.

I didnt call TU, FWDP, JE, or Diamond, but I called everyone else on the list. Based on how the conversation went I would not want to deal with Ross, CP, or Arias. Just my opinion.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/forgedpricing_zps17bb0ab8.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/forgedpricing_zps17bb0ab8.jpg.html)

[thedon809]

Yeah, I called them up too to see what the price was. I forgot to ask but I figured it was minus the rings and pins.

[Vigo]

I never considered that they would sell bare pistons. That's useful info..

[4 l-bodies]

I never considered that they would sell bare pistons. That's useful info..
I almost always buy an extra bare piston with my custom piston orders. I'll wreck your day when you find out you hurt one piston and need to buy four to fix the one broken piston you have. Then of course when you do that, you never will need it.
Asa, a lot of time after adding up all the different piston options prices can add up quickly. Stuff like max lightening, fitted pins, premium pins, premium rings, etc. costs add up quickly. The only thing I don't like about Ross is their lead time. Excellent quality piston though.
Todd

[Force Fed Mopar]

Will they make them with a wider quench band than stock?

[Ondonti]

I never considered that they would sell bare pistons. That's useful info..

Thats pretty much how they always sold them. Just because you can machine aluminum doesn't mean you can make rings :P
They have to have some sort of partnership to get ring sizes matched to commonly sold pistons. Order an off the wall bore and you will be stuck sourcing your own rings. I know. Mine were cut for the wrong size ring pack even though I mailed them the rings. Prices have definitely gone up.

[4 l-bodies]

Will they make them with a wider quench band than stock?
Rob,
Yeah any of the piston manufacturers can make custom piston mods, you just need to pay for it. That is the difference between off the shelf pistons and a custom piston. I just had this conversation with someone recently. Order a g-head forged piston from most manufacturers and you will get a swirl head piston unless you specifically tell them what you want. Since they don't have your head on hand, they have no clue about quench area. Most will make a narrower band on crown of piston and run a more shallow dish because this will result in a lighter piston, giving zero regard to quench area. I run my pistons out of the hole around .015 instead of down the hole .010-.015 and this make a big difference in knock suppression and squish area.
I just had a set of five asymmetrical Masi 16v pistons made up with lots of bells and whistles and they were not cheap, but they're pretty impressive.
Todd

[acannell]

Rob,
Yeah any of the piston manufacturers can make custom piston mods, you just need to pay for it. That is the difference between off the shelf pistons and a custom piston. I just had this conversation with someone recently. Order a g-head forged piston from most manufacturers and you will get a swirl head piston unless you specifically tell them what you want. Since they don't have your head on hand, they have no clue about quench area. Most will make a narrower band on crown of piston and run a more shallow dish because this will result in a lighter piston, giving zero regard to quench area. I run my pistons out of the hole around .015 instead of down the hole .010-.015 and this make a big difference in knock suppression and squish area.
I just had a set of five asymmetrical Masi 16v pistons made up with lots of bells and whistles and they were not cheap, but they're pretty impressive.
Todd

Venolia and Wiseco both told me that they do not make off the shelf pistons for our cars, that all the ones they do make are custom, and that I should send them a cast piston to base the design off of. The prices I posted were based on that. Until someone actually calls them with a specific design request different than that and gets a price, theres no reason to assume it would cost more than any other design.

Mr. Force Fed Mopar, if you have a question about specific geometries you want I would suggest just calling them. Sue @ Wiseco and Doug @ Venolia both answer the phone almost immediately and are very easy to talk to about these things. If you talk to Doug tell him you basically want the same piston that annoying guy with the 2.5L 4cyl dodge was asking about but you want some things different.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Rob,
Yeah any of the piston manufacturers can make custom piston mods, you just need to pay for it. That is the difference between off the shelf pistons and a custom piston. I just had this conversation with someone recently. Order a g-head forged piston from most manufacturers and you will get a swirl head piston unless you specifically tell them what you want. Since they don't have your head on hand, they have no clue about quench area. Most will make a narrower band on crown of piston and run a more shallow dish because this will result in a lighter piston, giving zero regard to quench area. I run my pistons out of the hole around .015 instead of down the hole .010-.015 and this make a big difference in knock suppression and squish area.
I just had a set of five asymmetrical Masi 16v pistons made up with lots of bells and whistles and they were not cheap, but they're pretty impressive.
Todd


Venolia and Wiseco both told me that they do not make off the shelf pistons for our cars, that all the ones they do make are custom, and that I should send them a cast piston to base the design off of. The prices I posted were based on that. Until someone actually calls them with a specific design request different than that and gets a price, theres no reason to assume it would cost more than any other design.

Mr. Force Fed Mopar, if you have a question about specific geometries you want I would suggest just calling them. Sue @ Wiseco and Doug @ Venolia both answer the phone almost immediately and are very easy to talk to about these things. If you talk to Doug tell him you basically want the same piston that annoying guy with the 2.5L 4cyl dodge was asking about but you want some things different.

Cool thanks for the info. Basically what I want is a 2.5 piston with the same quench band as the 2.2 piston. In speaking with 5DIGITS on here, that is one of the main reasons for the 2.5 being more knock sensitive. Also would like to tighten the quench up as this helps in knock suppression, as you say. Or I might consider a flat-top if it would help more. I'm trying to see what I can get out of a stock swirl head and TII turbo on the 2.5 CB in my Lebaron. Would like to match or break the stock head/turbo hp record, and a proper set of pistons would go a long way towards that. Currently have .040"-over Wiseco pistons from TU.

[turbovanman²]

Venolia's use the stock ring pack, Wiseco's use skinny rings of their own source.


Cool thanks for the info. Basically what I want is a 2.5 piston with the same quench band as the 2.2 piston. In speaking with 5DIGITS on here, that is one of the main reasons for the 2.5 being more knock sensitive. Also would like to tighten the quench up as this helps in knock suppression, as you say. Or I might consider a flat-top if it would help more. I'm trying to see what I can get out of a stock swirl head and TII turbo on the 2.5 CB in my Lebaron. Would like to match or break the stock head/turbo hp record, and a proper set of pistons would go a long way towards that. Currently have .040"-over Wiseco pistons from TU.

Quench band?

[acannell]

Venolia's use the stock ring pack, Wiseco's use skinny rings of their own source.



Quench band?

Only if you order them that way. Both Venolia and Wiseco told me they could make the piston match whatever rings I sent them.

[OmniLuvr]

Quench band?

i think we go over this every time me and you get in a swirl vs g-head battle... you told me last time you knew what that was...

if you look a a stock swirl to g-head piston, its the "band" that surrounds the piston until you get to the "dished" part of the piston. the stock ghead piston has a very large quench band, the 2.2 swirl piston has maybe a 5/16" quench band at best, and the 2.5 swirl head has literally an almost non existent ridge that surrounds the piston...

[acannell]

Heres a pic of a stock 2.5 swirl head piston.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20141227_125258_zpseb98ksmg.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20141227_125258_zpseb98ksmg.jpg.html)

[OmniLuvr]

really? 2.5? i thought that was a 2.2? i thought i remebered the 2.5 being even less? i guess its been a while

is that a mahle piston or aftermarket?

[acannell]

really? 2.5? i thought that was a 2.2? i thought i remebered the 2.5 being even less? i guess its been a while

yop check this out...

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_factory_pistons.html

Shows all of em I think..but it does look like the 2.5 has the thinnest out of the 8 valvers

[turbovanman²]

i think we go over this every time me and you get in a swirl vs g-head battle... you told me last time you knew what that was...

if you look a a stock swirl to g-head piston, its the "band" that surrounds the piston until you get to the "dished" part of the piston. the stock ghead piston has a very large quench band, the 2.2 swirl piston has maybe a 5/16" quench band at best, and the 2.5 swirl head has literally an almost non existent ridge that surrounds the piston...

Never heard the term "squish band" before, just squish area.

TIII has the best design.