Burning oil and coolant troubleshooting. Head is off. Need advice/ knowledge

[jefo]

Hey Guys,

So I recently swapped the top end on my 2.5 turbo van. New turbo, rebuilt head, and different exhaust/intake manifold. Running 20psi of boost. It ran great for a while, then I took it to the drags. Well the next day there was blue smoke coming out of the tailpipe. It turned into plumes of blue smoke leaving from a stop and also sometimes while cruising.

I did a compression test and it was 125, 130, 130, 135. Plug 1 was soaked in oil, and the others didnt look great but were not covered in oil. Leakdown tested at 70% on #1. So i took off the head assuming a cracked/melted piston.

There was oil in cylinders 1,2 and 3 and coolant in all 4 when I pulled the head off. Oil and coolant were drained prior to head removal also. But the pistons look fine from what I can see.

Well what does the problem look like to you guys? Also, which jackets are for coolant and which are for oil?



http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg485/jeffwatt92/photo1_zps8caba993.jpg (http://s1240.photobucket.com/user/jeffwatt92/media/photo1_zps8caba993.jpg.html)

http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg485/jeffwatt92/photo2_zps4aa8fa6d.jpg (http://s1240.photobucket.com/user/jeffwatt92/media/photo2_zps4aa8fa6d.jpg.html)

Cylinder 4

http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg485/jeffwatt92/photo1_zpsf8437ddb.jpg (http://s1240.photobucket.com/user/jeffwatt92/media/photo1_zpsf8437ddb.jpg.html)

Cylinder 4

http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg485/jeffwatt92/photo4_zpsf827bcb0.jpg (http://s1240.photobucket.com/user/jeffwatt92/media/photo4_zpsf827bcb0.jpg.html)


Cylinder 4

http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg485/jeffwatt92/photo3_zpsee9f531c.jpg (http://s1240.photobucket.com/user/jeffwatt92/media/photo3_zpsee9f531c.jpg.html)

[supercrackerbox]

The small hole in front of cylinder #4 is your oil feed, and the three large round holes along the front of the block are for drainback from the head. Obviously you know which ones are for the head bolts, and the rest of the passages are all coolant.

Did your leak down determine whether the pressure was escaping past the pistons or the valves?

[jefo]

The air was coming out of the valve cover. Whats weird is that I don't see any blown out section of the head gasket other than on #4, and there was definitely coolant in 2 and 3 before the teardown. I'll pull out piston #1 today.

[supercrackerbox]

Wouldn't hurt to pull all four just to be sure. You may have a cracked ring land. Are those the factory pistons or aftermarket?

[jefo]

Factory pistons/rings 135k miles. I have new rings and 3 good pistons on the shelf waiting to go in.

I am also worried about why the head gasket was pushed out in cylinder 4. And why all of the cylinders had coolant in them. Maybe the head gasket didn't seal/seat correctly? I followed the factory service manual asing a mopar headgasket and mp bolts.

[supercrackerbox]

At 20psi, even a hint of detonation can damage a headgasket pretty quick. And while I certainly don't want to say the 2.5 is notorious for detonation, they are a little bit more prone to it than the 2.2 from my understanding. I've got the original 2.5 out of my Daytona sitting on an engine stand with a destroyed piston because of that. Better you lost a head gasket than a piston.

[85glht]

At 20psi, even a hint of detonation can damage a headgasket pretty quick. And while I certainly don't want to say the 2.5 is notorious for detonation, they are a little bit more prone to it than the 2.2 from my understanding. I've got the original 2.5 out of my Daytona sitting on an engine stand with a destroyed piston because of that. Better you lost a head gasket than a piston.


Agreed. I would pull the pistons also. Very easy to do and might as well check them while the engine is half apart.

My suggestion when all is back together, run better fuel when at the strip. A few extra dollars on better fuel will be cheaper than going though all the bullsh!t you are going through now.

Good luck!

[jefo]

Broken ring land. I am going to pull the other pistons, clean them and replace the rings.


http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg485/jeffwatt92/brokenpiston_zps362b894c.jpg

[acannell]

Broken ring land. I am going to pull the other pistons, clean them and replace the rings.


http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg485/jeffwatt92/brokenpiston_zps362b894c.jpg

yep..if I had seen this thread sooner I would have posted. I've cracked 4 pistons and you couldnt tell from the top on any of them. You wont be melting pistons unless you make a VERY special effort to do so like running at 14 AFR at 25psi for 30 seconds

the question is...what caused the detonation that killed the piston? do you have a wideband? what cal/fuel setup

[zin]

My vote is for too much timing and/or oil contamination. Might check the intake valve stem seal on that cylinder, as well as the intake itself... Any place oil can get into the mixture in the cylinder.

Oil KILLS the octane rating of the fuel, so even if everything was tuned well and decent fuel was used, if enough of it gets in, you might as well be running 86 octane!

As for the headgasket, it might just be me, but it looks like the left side (in the above picture) fire ring is pushed in which can be a sign of over-torquing of the gasket (poor design)... There isn't much support there and it can get squished into the chamber area, if that happens, under "race conditions" the metal fire ring can become red-hot, and cause pre-ignition, which is just detonation before the spark event, and comes with all the busted parts you get with detonation.

Mike

[jefo]

Yea I have a wideband. It got a little lean ~13 at the drags. so I am sure thats what caused it, and its completely my fault. I have a stage 3 fwd cal. Time for the 3 bar setup!

[jefo]

I pulled and cleaned piston 3 and saw this. Is this a burnt piston or a casting defect?


http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg485/jeffwatt92/photo_zps25ce96ef.jpg (http://s1240.photobucket.com/user/jeffwatt92/media/photo_zps25ce96ef.jpg.html)

[Keito]

This is why I always throw a few gallons of race gas in the tank
when I get to the track, cheap insurance.
I used to do it even when I raced my SRT-4 when it was stock.
We're you running pump gas?