STI> Spirit > '05 Mustang GT - where I stand

[Dave]

Two races today! Yippee. I just got the boost situation fixed and now it builds off the line and holds 20psi dead even.

Anyways saw an STI pull into a parking lot. Asked him if he'd like to give it a go against me. He agreed and we (I had my friend in the car as well - another 150lbs :banghead: ) went off to the bypass.

The first race we went from 50mph, I was in 2nd, I nailed it as soon as the STI did. Boost cutout, CHIT!! It pegged cutout twice from 2nd gear to a little after 3rd. He had I'd say 4-5/10 on me.

Turn around and try it from 20mph, 1st gear this time. I figured I can spool up quicker and plus his AWD wont help him. :eyebrows: We both go at the same time again, he missed 2nd, I pause, then nail it again. Again he passes me and just guessing, I'd again say 4/10. Pretty kool run. :)

Next race was with an '05 Mustang GT hardtop. At a 4 lane light, the road turns down into 2. The Mustang is sitting behind me and we're both in the lane that ends. Light goes green and I lightly get on it... enough to let him get in front of the adjacent car and pass me. He doesn't bite, so I move over and leave it in 2nd doing about 40mph. I see him get to my bumper so I punch it.... ergh, slow spool!!!! Wait... wait....and wait.... 20 pounds finally comes on. Weee!!!!:p He put about a 1/2 length on me when my boost came on. I pull back 3rd and now at his door passing him. I look into his window as I pass and his eyes were wide as hell! :lol: I then saw him start to laugh his a$$ off. hehe. I continue to put a length on him.

So on pump gas I'm between 13.9's and 13.3's. I think with the race gas and some traction I'll get some low 13's for sure. :) Going racing this Wed. the 27th, and the dyno on the 30th. Stock up on race gas for the rest of the year... I need it.

-Bryan

[turbovanman²]

Nice, :thumb:

What happened to the dyno you were going to a few weeks ago?

[mark]

cool races dave! errr Bryan!

I can only muster up a 14.9@94
(excuses: 2.7 60' and missed 4th not once, but twice!)

[Dave]

Simon, I'm going to the dyno on the 30th. I blew my headgasket the night before the dyno. :banghead: So that really sucked. :p

[Mom'sTurboVan]

get that boost situation resolved and i would really like to see the outcome of that race against the STi, at the track though.

[Dave]

get that boost situation resolved and i would really like to see the outcome of that race against the STi, at the track though.

Eh, that was with it resolved. It's pulling knock like crazy. 93 gas and 20psi don't like eachother. I need some 110. :nod:

[Mom'sTurboVan]

Race Gas is your friend:nod:

[unluckyty]

Bryan,
Get alky injection kit, you can run #20+:nod: all the time on pump gas 93.

[Dave]

Race Gas is your friend:nod:

But race gas doesn't increase horsepower! :confused: *sarcasm*

:rolleyes:

Anyways, I'm buying some soon.

[GLHSKEN]

But race gas doesn't increase horsepower! :confused: *sarcasm*

:rolleyes:

Anyways, I'm buying some soon.

It doesn't... Race gas is a more stable fuel and less prone to detonation (read harder to light off) Race gas will result in LOWER hp apples to apples (slightly) Race gas allows you to do things to raise your hp that you can not do with plain pump gas.

Bottom line race gas does NOT increase your hp.

[BadAssPerformance]

So on pump gas I'm between 13.9's and 13.3's.

Wow, wish I had calibrated STI's and Mustangs in my neighborhood...

You didnt even have a clean race and have no idea what is done to those cars so how do you figure that?

[BadAssPerformance]

Bottom line race gas does NOT increase your hp.

True that! My Shadow is all stock except race gas ;)

[DodgeZ]

But race gas doesn't increase horsepower! :confused: *sarcasm*

:rolleyes:

Anyways, I'm buying some soon.
http://www.offroaders.com/tech/octane.htm

[turbovanman²]

http://www.offroaders.com/tech/octane.htm

Great article, :thumb:

And running race gas in a car that doesn't need it can slow you down as the fuel won't burn properly.

[Dave]

I agree, running too high a grade of gas will make a car slower if it doesn't have the compression to need it.

But running 16+psi I think race gas is needed.

If adding 110 octane will reduce spark knock, and therefore give me more spark, increasing horsepower, well that's what it does. Yah? I know it doesn't "add" horsepower, perhaps we can agree and say it frees up ponies?

Maybe I should do some back-to-back dyno runs by just adding 110 and see if I gain any horse?

[show-off]

If you are gaining a ton of power by just adding 110 then your car is pulling timing on 93 like crazy. You should properly tune your car to run on 93 octane, since that is probably what you put in the car the most.

Basically, you need 2 tunes for your car. One for 93 and one for race gas. If your car is that out of tune...that is scary! You must adjust timing and/or boost to use the gas to your advantage. Mopar did this with the SRT4 (see stage 3)

Your car seems to be tuned real bad if that is the case.

[BadAssPerformance]

But running 16+psi I think race gas is needed.

That would depend on what the rest of the setup is... and there is a BIG difference between 93 and 110... I have run 100 octane unleaded over 25psi (stock garret) in my Shadow...

[turbovanman²]

I agree, running too high a grade of gas will make a car slower if it doesn't have the compression to need it.

But running 16+psi I think race gas is needed.

If adding 110 octane will reduce spark knock, and therefore give me more spark, increasing horsepower, well that's what it does. Yah? I know it doesn't "add" horsepower, perhaps we can agree and say it frees up ponies?

Maybe I should do some back-to-back dyno runs by just adding 110 and see if I gain any horse?


Agreed with the other guys, 16psi should ping on high grade pump gas. I would recheck your timing, something doesn't sound right.

[GLHSKEN]

Agreed with the other guys, 16psi should ping on high grade pump gas. I would recheck your timing, something doesn't sound right.


Shouldn's ping :) I used to run around at 22psi on the street with pump gas. I only added race gas at the strip as a precaution. 3-4 seconds WOT is nothing like the heat from 12-13 seconds at WOT

[BadAssPerformance]

Ping vs. No ping at 16 psi on pump gas......

BONE stock '87 T2? no problem.

anythign else? It ALL depends on the other variables!

ignition timing
cam timing
injector size
fuel pressure
turbo size
intercooler efficiency
calibration
etc
etc
etc

[DodgeZ]

Since there is still a distributor the computer can only pull out so much time (15 degrees I think). So you can very easily have condition that the computer won’t be able to pull enough timing to keep the horrible way you are tuning safe. You also have to remember these cars were the start of the electronics, efi and turbos…. The knock sensors doesn’t work very well in these cars nor are there any real good safety built in. It isn’t an advanced system like an SRT4 which has a coil pack and lots of “you’re a dumb arse” protection sensors it uses to take in to account. You have to really try hard to kill an SRT4 unlike our premier EFI/Turbo ecm.

Give us a run down of what you do when you get to the track. Fill it up and then go to the staging lanes? Do you run your gas almost out first? Do you drive around a bit to mix up the fuel? What do you do from the time you come thru the gates to the time you hit gas for the green light?

[turbovanman²]

Shouldn's ping :)

Doh, typing faster than my brain can compute, hehehe, ;)

[Dave]

Kevin, when I leave my town I leave on a 1/2 tank. By the time I get to the track I'm just over a 1/4 tank, I put $10 of 110 in, usually it's 2.2 gallons, I drive 3 miles to the track, there's plenty of turns to slosh it around. You usually can smell the higher grade gas being burnt once you back up or by just letting it sit.

That's really all I do. There are three reasons I put in race gas at the track only: 1. I personally believe it relieves spark knock. 2. I can adjust my fuel down and boost up a little without being too scared. And 3. Because 110 if fawking expensive, there's no pumps around here that carrey race gas. It's about 35 miles away to the nearest pump, if it were closer I'd get a bunch and continue mixing it.

I'm going racing in a few hours, I'll let you guys know what I do.

[BadAssPerformance]

Kevin, when I leave my town I leave on a 1/2 tank. By the time I get to the track I'm just over a 1/4 tank, I put $10 of 110 in, usually it's 2.2 gallons, I drive 3 miles to the track, there's plenty of turns to slosh it around. You usually can smell the higher grade gas being burnt once you back up or by just letting it sit.................I'm going racing in a few hours, I'll let you guys know what I do.

So you drive to the track to fill up, then drive 3 more miles to the track to mix it up? I'm lost.

Regardless good luck tonight :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

Bryan, this is what I do and it seems to work. Run your tank fairly low and fill up a jerry can with race gas. A few miles before the track, put it in then the short drive will mix it up nicely.

[Dave]

Um, hello, that's what I do. I arrive at the pump on right at 1/4 tank, I'm not going to risk driving at any lower fluid level. I put in 2 gallons of 110, drive 3 miles to the track. The two blend together real nice by the time I get there.

I got there last night and by the time I hit the gates I could smell the race gas.

Anyways, turned out I only could muster a 14.02 at 94mph with a 2.0 60'. For some odd reason I couldn't build boost off the line quickly like I was before. Worked fine at home. :mad: On top of that my brakes now aren't holding past 10psi, so I rolled past the line to get to 14psi and just dump the brake.

I think I'm developing the same probs as last season... torque converter. :( It went bad and I replaced the entire trans and I picked up nearly a whole second.

So that was it for the season. I had fun last night, still. I put the street tires back on and went for some runs. Heh, it's a scary feeling when you're doing 50mph and the front end lifts and slides out from under you. I guess that means my tranny is still fine, as when I pulled back 2nd it hit so hard that's what happened. I spun all through 2nd. :thumb: Maybe I can replace the TC before the season is out, but I doubt it.

[DodgeZ]

Um, hello, that's what I do. I arrive at the pump on right at 1/4 tank, I'm not going to risk driving at any lower fluid level. I put in 2 gallons of 110, drive 3 miles to the track. The two blend together real nice by the time I get there.

I got there last night and by the time I hit the gates I could smell the race gas.

Anyways, turned out I only could muster a 14.02 at 94mph with a 2.0 60'. For some odd reason I couldn't build boost off the line quickly like I was before. Worked fine at home. :mad: On top of that my brakes now aren't holding past 10psi, so I rolled past the line to get to 14psi and just dump the brake.

I think I'm developing the same probs as last season... torque converter. :( It went bad and I replaced the entire trans and I picked up nearly a whole second.

So that was it for the season. I had fun last night, still. I put the street tires back on and went for some runs. Heh, it's a scary feeling when you're doing 50mph and the front end lifts and slides out from under you. I guess that means my tranny is still fine, as when I pulled back 2nd it hit so hard that's what happened. I spun all through 2nd. :thumb: Maybe I can replace the TC before the season is out, but I doubt it.


What was your 1/8th time and mph?

[BadAssPerformance]

Um, hello, that's what I do. I arrive at the pump on right at 1/4 tank, I'm not going to risk driving at any lower fluid level. I put in 2 gallons of 110, drive 3 miles to the track. The two blend together real nice by the time I get there.

Um, hello, read your post #23, you say you go to the track and then drove 3 miles to the track...

sorry you didnt run 13's

[Dave]

Um, hello, read your post #23, you say you go to the track and then drove 3 miles to the track...

sorry you didnt run 13's

lol okay you got me in a typo. So I'm sorry. Yah, I didn't run 13's last night. I took it out, had fun, learned what's going on. I couldn't build boost quickly off the line, and I could feel it begin to lose gobs of power once I hit 3rd gear. The torque converter is trashed. It's an OEM unit that's been in there since March. Of course it'll be gone.

So I'm trying to get another one and run it one more time at the track then be done for the season.

:rolleyes:

[moparzrule]

There's a quite simple solution to running big boost with low octane....lower your compression! I swapped a G head on my 87 T2 block, about 7.6:1 compression and ran 22 PSI on 93 octane and 15 degrees ignition advance. Turned the advance down to 12 and ran 25 PSI, zero detonation. The low compression did not seem to hurt my low end power, in fact the engine was quite torqey(sp?) making 317 ft/lbs and 269 WHP at 19 PSI on the dyno.
Another option is forged venolia pistons, they come with a deeper dish which will lower compression. Personally I think the G head is a much better option.