Letter from Consulier Industries to NHTSA with aqll VINs

[Chris W]

I located this document online, but, my VIN is off by 2 digits. Just wondering if everyone else's is correct. Please check and post up.

ftp://nhtsa.gov/MfrMail/01-22-N11B-3941.pdf

Thanks!

Chris-TU

[Johnny]

Mine is right.

[Johnny]

The 52 sounds about right "IF" the race cars did not have VIN numbers.
But 11 off of what I was told. I was told 83, including the race cars.

[player1up]

hmm, according to this list, mine is #1 for 1990. This list doesn't include VIN 43CSA1120JRC1C010 which FL DMV lists as a 1988 unknown color FL title 69042867 16,158 mileage in 1995

FL DMV also lists a 1991 car as:
43CSA1125LRC1C043 -- 1991 RED NO TITLE ON FILE reg date 2004
The odd thing about that is that the "L" in the VIN should be for model year and that L would make it a 1990

According to this ftp://nhtsa.gov/MfrMail/01-22-N11B-3945.pdf ( I understand its not for consuliers, but should be the same if they followed the standards )
1988 is J
1989 is K
1990 is L
1991 is M
... and so on

Now if we can find the production numbers for 88 and 89..
Does anyone have the VIN for the #1 car that was down there?

[168glhs1986]

Mine is correct.

All the cars are not listed....Steve M in Texas has car # 67 or something. I'll have to research it but it's the red car by the other red car behind the facility in front of the shipping containers. I believe it was the last one sold.

[Johnny]

His is 46
48738

[Chris W]

hmm, according to this list, mine is #1 for 1990. This list doesn't include VIN 43CSA1120JRC1C010 which FL DMV lists as a 1988 unknown color FL title 69042867 16,158 mileage in 1995

FL DMV also lists a 1991 car as:
43CSA1125LRC1C043 -- 1991 RED NO TITLE ON FILE reg date 2004
The odd thing about that is that the "L" in the VIN should be for model year and that L would make it a 1990

According to this ftp://nhtsa.gov/MfrMail/01-22-N11B-3945.pdf ( I understand its not for consuliers, but should be the same if they followed the standards )
1988 is J
1989 is K
1990 is L
1991 is M
... and so on

Now if we can find the production numbers for 88 and 89..
Does anyone have the VIN for the #1 car that was down there?

So this document reflects 1990 cars only and there can be more then one 007 car? My 1988 has a J instead of an L and 1123 instead of 1121.

[168glhs1986]

Thanks Johnny, his car is 1 after mine

[player1up]

So this document reflects 1990 cars only and there can be more then one 007 car? My 1988 has a J instead of an L and 1123 instead of 1121.

Chris, 88 is J and the 3 is a check digit so based on the calculation it could be almost anything.

From the document my VIN should decode like this: ( keep in mind that the VINs only half follow the standard )
43C Chars 1-3 = World manufacturer identifier ( BUT if less than 500 per year the 3rd char should be 9 )
SA112 Chars 4-8 = Vehicle Attributes ( gross vehicle weight less than 10,000 )
0 Char 9 = check digit ( the way this is calculated is confusing so I wont go into it but it can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number#Check_digit_calculat ion) )
L Char 10 = Model year 1990 ( discussed above )
R Char 11 = Plant code ( Riviera Beach FL )
C1C Chars 12-14 = Manufacturer identifier less than 500 per year
001 Chars 15-17 = Production number ( Sequence number )

My car was not marketed as the first production car ( was told that the #1 car was there but I didn't look at the VIN ) and has "race car 22" on the frame with the VIN and my VIN ends with 001
So, If my car is the 22nd car built, that means that there are 21 cars produced between 88-90 and the VINs production number should start over each year. At the end of 1990 73 cars had been produced and between 1900 and 1993 only 10-12 were made.

What makes this a little more intriguing is that they would have no way of knowing how many they could produce in a given year so my logic has some huge holes in it.

But FL DMV site lists 43CSA1126LRC1C021 as a 1993...should be 43CSA1126PRC1C021 instead lol so who knows???

The main question that no one asked is why the VINs in the doc have CIC and the VIN on my title has C1C ...oops haha

[player1up]

There is another doc out there that is referenced in the index but not found in the ftp directory.
From the index doc:

Comment
Number: 02840

=======
Date
Received: 03/22/1988

=======
Submitter/Firm/Subject: B.R. RESPESS CONSULIER INDUSTRIES INC

=================

Pages : 1

=====
Date of
Document : 03/01/1988

========

I wonder if this is the document that is referenced in the handwritten comments on the first page of the first linked pdf.
"Coding can be seen in another VIN coding submission"

[Reaper1]

It might be that the cars had VIN's assigned to them before they were completed. I have no clue if that could even be the case or the legality of that, but it could happen. I seem to remember that some pre-production vehicles have VIN's that do not correspond to the production year of the vehicles that they represent. Thoughts? Facts?

[Johnny]

Or they were made and no VIN til they were sold.
Thats why some 1988 looking cars were titled as a 1990 car.
I have noticed no 1989 cars are around. Its like they mad a run of cars then stopped to
change stuff, then started titling them again in 1990.

[GTP#44]

My car is 1990 GTP LX
The last two of the VIN# is 25 ,but both sets of factory keys have #44 written on them.
I dont believe VIN numbers and production numbers match each other.
This is just going to make Johnny's job double tough to keep track of the cars if this is the case.

[Johnny]

Maybe I will end up using the last 3 (or 4) digits on the site.

[Rrider]

Mines not on there. Its a "J" car with 1990 emmision sticker.

[Chris W]

Thanks for the info player1up. I may be a little closer to getting it titled tomorrow. Will post my hurdles when I'm done should anyone run into the same situation.

Chris-TU

[Johnny]

Any one have a 88 GTP with the EPA sticker that is on the car and is a 1988 sticker?

[168glhs1986]

Thanks for the info player1up. I may be a little closer to getting it titled tomorrow. Will post my hurdles when I'm done should anyone run into the same situation.

Chris-TU

I sure hope so. Just part of the early fun being a Consulier owner :). Once you get the tags its all green lights from there.

[player1up]

I sure hope so. Just part of the early fun being a Consulier owner :). Once you get the tags its all green lights from there.

or red and blue lights if you can't keep your foot out of it. ;)

[Plasmadust]

Chris, 88 is J and the 3 is a check digit so based on the calculation it could be almost anything.

From the document my VIN should decode like this: ( keep in mind that the VINs only half follow the standard )
43C Chars 1-3 = World manufacturer identifier ( BUT if less than 500 per year the 3rd char should be 9 )
SA112 Chars 4-8 = Vehicle Attributes ( gross vehicle weight less than 10,000 )
0 Char 9 = check digit ( the way this is calculated is confusing so I wont go into it but it can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number#Check_digit_calculat ion) )
L Char 10 = Model year 1990 ( discussed above )
R Char 11 = Plant code ( Riviera Beach FL )
C1C Chars 12-14 = Manufacturer identifier less than 500 per year
001 Chars 15-17 = Production number ( Sequence number )

My car was not marketed as the first production car ( was told that the #1 car was there but I didn't look at the VIN ) and has "race car 22" on the frame with the VIN and my VIN ends with 001
So, If my car is the 22nd car built, that means that there are 21 cars produced between 88-90 and the VINs production number should start over each year. At the end of 1990 73 cars had been produced and between 1900 and 1993 only 10-12 were made.

What makes this a little more intriguing is that they would have no way of knowing how many they could produce in a given year so my logic has some huge holes in it.

But FL DMV site lists 43CSA1126LRC1C021 as a 1993...should be 43CSA1126PRC1C021 instead lol so who knows???

The main question that no one asked is why the VINs in the doc have CIC and the VIN on my title has C1C ...oops haha

I am a little late to this party, but do have info about the vin #s. Just because a manufacture draws vin numbers for a given year, does not mean that they "use" the number in that year. Case in point, if you want a "new" Shelby Cobra, they will build you one with the remaining vins the have from the sixties that were never used. Bring bucks and lots of them! The vehicle they build you will be registered as the year the vin number reflects. Even if it is forty years later.

All that said, the above vin number 43CSA1126LRC1C021 is setting in my driveway. It is one of the GTP Targas that were bought and converted to all electric drive. Those were originally sold in the Nieman Marcus Christmas catalog, but the this one was used by Florida Power & Light to promote electric vehicles from 1994-2000.

[Reaper1]

Is that the car that is in the advertisement with Leslie Nielson?

[Johnny]

Welcome Doug...good to see you here!

[Johnny]

Is that the car that is in the advertisement with Leslie Nielson?


Sure think it is!!!

[player1up]

I am a little late to this party, but do have info about the vin #s. Just because a manufacture draws vin numbers for a given year, does not mean that they "use" the number in that year. Case in point, if you want a "new" Shelby Cobra, they will build you one with the remaining vins the have from the sixties that were never used. Bring bucks and lots of them! The vehicle they build you will be registered as the year the vin number reflects. Even if it is forty years later.

All that said, the above vin number 43CSA1126LRC1C021 is setting in my driveway. It is one of the GTP Targas that were bought and converted to all electric drive. Those were originally sold in the Nieman Marcus Christmas catalog, but the this one was used by Florida Power & Light to promote electric vehicles from 1994-2000.

Welcome,
Very interesting indeed! After going through the decode I figured the VINs were used in some fashion like that, it makes sense if they were issued / reserved a pool of VINs and didn't end up using up all of the VINs for that year range.

I'm assuming that you have that car very well documented. We'd all love to see some pics and get some details about some of the mechanical changes. For example, does it still have A/C ? Is there anything inside the intakes on the sides of the car or are they closed off? What does the dash look like? I'm guessing that it doesn't have all of the gauges that most do...

[Johnny]

There is one photo on my gallery section in the www.consuliergtp.com web site...but no details.

[168glhs1986]

Welcome to the fun Plasmadust. It looks like you have a unicorn. Is the car drivable?