thermostat housing

[iTurbo]

I'm starting this thread as a place to post pictures of the stock thermostat housing and find out if it's something that can be remade in billet and possibly improved upon. Who knows where this will go from here, but I figured I would at least try. I *myself* do not have the ability to make something like this, although there are a few people on this forum that can. If necessary I can even send a stock thermostat housing for development purpose.

A couple of questions I hope this thread will answer:
1. Are there other people out there missing/broken thermostat housings that need one?
2. Is the stock housing a fragile part that breaks or is susceptible to corrosion?
3. Can the housing be improved upon over stock?

I happen to have a couple cylinder heads that didn't come with the thermostat housing unfortunately. Thankfully I was able to get a couple of the thermostat outlets that lengel had made a while back. The are very nice pieces made from billet aluminum. I still don't have the housing itself though, and I doubt I will ever find stock one for sale.

[2.216VTurbo]

I have seen a coiple TC's that had the thin cast Aluminum housing 'anode thru' and become weepy tho it's not happened on any of my cars or motors. Ill try to take a couple shots later today when I venture out to the garage. One feature that is a must, is the bleed valve located on the top of the housing. The housing is the highest part of the cooling system so it's needs to be bleed from that point. Burping it from the low mounted radiator cap would be pointless. I do think there is room for improvement in the design of the housing tho. It just seems to be in the way of everything or at least the spark plug wires, the CTS plug, accessing the intake manifold studs/nuts and a few other things. Plus, it's ugly or at least less than pleasing to look at. Maybe a north-south arrangement instead of transverse? Not sure, Ill put some pics up and let the creative folks on this list throw ideas out;)

[GLHNSLHT2]

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1554398_3703549882729_1511242675_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1522212_3703551642773_1304205252_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1506961_3703552242788_790847443_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1477868_3703552402792_476859939_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1531834_3703550042733_516084285_n.jpg

[iTurbo]

Thanks for posting pics Jay. Does the Masi 16v use the same thermostat as the other 2.2/2.5 engines? Where the housing bolts to the head, is that a regular round O-ring or special formed part?

Another thing I've always wonder is about the 3/8" or 1/2" hose nipple that goes toward the driver side. On the housings I have it is just a dummy port. I suppose you could drill it out, but what is the purpose of that port??

[GLHNSLHT2]

I hope it's just a regular round o-ring as the one on my USED housing is broken in 1 spot. Looks like it could be just a regular round o-ring Maybe I'll pull it out later and see.

The t-stat is specific but a couple years ago O-REALLY'S had it on the shelf when I checked.

[iTurbo]

48244482454824648247

Just thought I would post some pics to show that the thermostat housing runs real close to the intake manifold on the bottom side.

[acannell]

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1554398_3703549882729_1511242675_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1522212_3703551642773_1304205252_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1506961_3703552242788_790847443_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1477868_3703552402792_476859939_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1531834_3703550042733_516084285_n.jpg

wow..sorry i missed all this

that definitely does not look like a chrysler part...lol..

so..what can i do here? are we saying that entire part needs to be replaced, with one thats identical but machined from scratch? is that easier and cheaper than finding a junkyard one or buying one or what have you

[turismolover22]

When it comes to the masi 16v, there are no jy parts lmao. Its an extremely rare dohc motor only available on one car, the tc maserati.

[acannell]

When it comes to the masi 16v, there are no jy parts lmao. Its an extremely rare dohc motor only available on one car, the tc maserati.

ahhhhh

so these tstat housings rot out, and there is no replacement? is that the situation?

also, it looks like two piece. do both pieces need to be machined? or are we just focusing on one of them?

about how many people would need this?

what kinda price range are people expecting? if its going to be CNC machined, i think it will be in the $100 to $200 range. sorry i know that sucks..but theres a reason they cast it, thats a ----- part to machine

there is another alternative way i could make it, probably for $50 each, but i would need a group buy of 20. it would be injected molded out of nylon 6/6 %15 glass filled , the same stuff plastic radiator tanks and pretty much all modern coolant soaked parts besides radiator fins are made of these days.

[turismolover22]

No offense to anyone here, but the heads alone stock run anywhere from 800-2500, i dont think anyone will complain over a 200 dollar piece that in stock form rots.

Has anyone considered having the mounting flange, t stat neck, and t stat flange machined. And have the rest of the tubing tig welded? Dont know what would be cheaper here though. And maybe have one made to house a cheaper or more readily available t stat, like a chevy one or a stock 8v style.

[acannell]

No offense to anyone here, but the heads alone stock run anywhere from 800-2500, i dont think anyone will complain over a 200 dollar piece that in stock form rots.

Has anyone considered having the mounting flange, t stat neck, and t stat flange machined. And have the rest of the tubing tig welded? Dont know what would be cheaper here though. And maybe have one made to house a cheaper or more readily available t stat, like a chevy one or a stock 8v style.

so far the details are:

-copy both pieces (can someone confirm this?)
-modify to use cheaper/more widely available stat
-$100 to $200 price range, CNC machined aluminum
-anyone interested in the nylon version?
-any other changes?

[GLHNSLHT2]

IMO, unless you don't have one (poor jeremy) you don't need the whole piece made. The t-stat is available last I checked at Oreallys so not really a need to use a different t-stat. $100-$200 for a whole CNC machined housing is very reasonable. Why nylon? Wouldn't that crack from the heat?

[acannell]

IMO, unless you don't have one (poor jeremy) you don't need the whole piece made. The t-stat is available last I checked at Oreallys so not really a need to use a different t-stat. $100-$200 for a whole CNC machined housing is very reasonable. Why nylon? Wouldn't that crack from the heat?

the nylon idea is just to make a much less expensive version since i could make it as an injected molded part instead of a cnc machined part. apparently 15% glass filled nylon 6/6 has been used very commonly in automotive coolant stuff for decades, like radiator tanks and lately thermostat housings and other coolant and engine parts. its melting point is around 220C and apparently its other properties make for a good material for coolant system stuff.

[turismolover22]

The only problem I've encountered with nylon coolant pieces is they have a life expectancy. And unfortunately they are hard to detect when failing unless you flex the part. Went more than my fair share of rounds with coolant system issues due to failing plastic couplers, etc.

[86TSiGuy]

the nylon idea is just to make a much less expensive version since i could make it as an injected molded part instead of a cnc machined part. apparently 15% glass filled nylon 6/6 has been used very commonly in automotive coolant stuff for decades, like radiator tanks and lately thermostat housings and other coolant and engine parts. its melting point is around 220C and apparently its other properties make for a good material for coolant system stuff.

I've also seen it used extensively on intake manifolds, even bolted directly to the head. IMO over the intake would be fine, now the exhaust on the other hand...

[acannell]

dupont has a really in depth marketing brochure on nylon and automotive stuff. the "zytel" nylon goes back decades and decades, but they have new and improved versions with even better coolant performance. i can definitely get my hands on small quantities of the basic zytel injection resin on ebay..and possibly the latest greatest resins too.

heres one of the charts showing tensile strength versus time. note the hilarious "BETTER" arrow on the right hand side..hahahah! i guess this is meant for executives or buyers who cant be expected to understand a graph...kinda scary if you think about it

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/nyloncoolant_zps8cbcf584.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/nyloncoolant_zps8cbcf584.jpg.html)

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/nylontstathousing_zpse909172c.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/nylontstathousing_zpse909172c.jpg.html)

[GLHNSLHT2]

ahh my jeep libby has that for it's T-stat housing.

[iTurbo]

I think my Caliber SRT also uses a similar material for the thermostat housing IIRC. It is remote mounted though, and I think it actually uses two thermostats on the 2.4L turbo GEMA engine.

I would certainly be interested in buying at least two of these. I want to thank acannell for looking into this and posting his ideas this. I was originally thinking that a CNC machined part would be the only route. I never would have thought a nylon or zytel piece was something that was plausible. I for one, am very impressed with what can be done with plastic parts such as the valve cover on my CSRT. It 'appears' to be the same material as the intake manifold. I have powder coated the plastic valve cover on my CSRT three times at 375'F (base coat, color, clear coat) and it held up great!

The Masi 16v thermostat housing is two pieces as shown by the pictures posted by GLHNSLH2. The smaller piece with the big outlet is the radiator hose outlet and was remade by Adam Lengel last year in billet aluminum. I have two of those already, and there are several others that bought those pieces when they were available. I imagine they are no longer available at this point for the most part.

The main thermostat body has never been available other than NOS. Finding one for sale is very unlikely and they have likely been unavailable for a LONG time. I have two heads here that didn't come with them, so I would be interested in at least two. I can't use them without a thermostat housing. If I decided to sell them, I would also have a tougher time getting decent $$ for them without a thermostat housing.

My hope is that a good viable alternative can be produced that will provide a thermostat housing to those just need that need one (like me), and a superior product to the stock unit (worthwhile upgrade?) Covering those two bases will help these sell. If you can make it more aesthetically pleasing than the stock piece, that will likely help too!

[Tbird232ci]

I haven't had my hands in a Masi, but I keep checking in this thread, and the first thought is, "damn that thing is ugly".

What about the possibility of making much more streamlined item, without the thermostat in it, and then used an inline thermostat housing? You would take the wear item out of the custom piece, and probably make it easier and cheaper to make, not to mention it would be smaller and less hideous. Could use something like this for the inline:

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/53260/10002/-1?parentProductId=2677715

[acannell]

I think my Caliber SRT also uses a similar material for the thermostat housing IIRC. It is remote mounted though, and I think it actually uses two thermostats on the 2.4L turbo GEMA engine.

I would certainly be interested in buying at least two of these. I want to thank acannell for looking into this and posting his ideas this. I was originally thinking that a CNC machined part would be the only route. I never would have thought a nylon or zytel piece was something that was plausible. I for one, am very impressed with what can be done with plastic parts such as the valve cover on my CSRT. It 'appears' to be the same material as the intake manifold. I have powder coated the plastic valve cover on my CSRT three times at 375'F (base coat, color, clear coat) and it held up great!

The Masi 16v thermostat housing is two pieces as shown by the pictures posted by GLHNSLH2. The smaller piece with the big outlet is the radiator hose outlet and was remade by Adam Lengel last year in billet aluminum. I have two of those already, and there are several others that bought those pieces when they were available. I imagine they are no longer available at this point for the most part.

The main thermostat body has never been available other than NOS. Finding one for sale is very unlikely and they have likely been unavailable for a LONG time. I have two heads here that didn't come with them, so I would be interested in at least two. I can't use them without a thermostat housing. If I decided to sell them, I would also have a tougher time getting decent $$ for them without a thermostat housing.

My hope is that a good viable alternative can be produced that will provide a thermostat housing to those just need that need one (like me), and a superior product to the stock unit (worthwhile upgrade?) Covering those two bases will help these sell. If you can make it more aesthetically pleasing than the stock piece, that will likely help too!


looking at the "big" half, id probably make it very similar in size and shape, with threaded ports for the smallest nipple and the bleeder valve, assuming its a threaded fitting. this would be to reduce machining complexity.

other than that, it looks similar to something ive made before, so i think i should be able to pull it off

the tstat housing looks pretty straight forward

does anyone have both pieces they could send me? they could be rotten out or broken, i just need something to get geometry from.

as far as relocating the tstat to an inline one, there may be consequences to moving the thermostat away from where the bypass point is..such as allowing the coolant to get much hotter before the tstat opens since it wont see very much flow in an isolated area

but if y'all have ideas for cosmetic changes let em rip! although with just a cnc "look" this part may look way cooler without really trying to

attached is a pic of a similar part ive made

i dont think id be able to CNC this part on the cheap on my 3 axis mini mill, it looks like several setups. im going to ballpark and say for the lower half it will be in the $150 to $200 range, but no higher. the tstat housing i can probably do for $50 to $65

6061-T6511 is only about $2.28 / lb where I get it, so this really isnt material cost. its setup time, machining time, and design time (several days) it takes to make it.

the thing with the nylon version is this: it would be alot less expensive to just inject the part, which takes about 10 minutes. but the design of the mold can take a couple weeks for me, so id need to get a large group order of these like 20 or more. and you would only be saving $75 or so probably. and even then its sort of experimental because ive never made a GF nylon part that big that will be used like this. but its a compelling idea isnt it? i think ill have to attempt something like that at some point and see what happens.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/photobucket-7672-1388200216202_zps0e826d18.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/photobucket-7672-1388200216202_zps0e826d18.jpg.html)

[4 l-bodies]

There are a few new billet covers around. We have the covers done, no sense remaking those. I put together a group buy on these a few years ago. We made between 25-30 of these IIRC. Adam told me back when these were made he could remake these if there was enough demand. That is the beauty of CNC program. Here is pic of couple he made.
Todd

[acannell]

There are a few new billet covers around. We have the covers done, no sense remaking those. I put together a group buy on these a few years ago. We made between 25-30 of these IIRC. Adam told me back when these were made he could remake these if there was enough demand. That is the beauty of CNC program. Here is pic of couple he made.
Todd

those are really nice

okay then im up for designing and making the big part, i just need a sample

ill try to make one, then ill have a better idea how much it will need to cost and how fast i can make them

[4 l-bodies]

Someone might want to start a thread on various forums to get a idea of how many people are truly interested in these. The only reason I say that is it took a while for me to get 25 people to even commit verbally to both adjustable cam pulleys and the thermostat covers. Then about 20% of people backed out when it came time to commit with payment. Not complaining, just saying to expect it.
The originals covers corrode at the hose connection. I think the housings hold up better from a corrosion standpoint, but they do break. I have heard of more than one that has broke.
Todd

[acannell]

Someone might want to start a thread on various forums to get a idea of how many people are truly interested in these. The only reason I say that is it took a while for me to get 25 people to even commit verbally to both adjustable cam pulleys and the thermostat covers. Then about 20% of people backed out when it came time to commit with payment. Not complaining, just saying to expect it.
The originals covers corrode at the hose connection. I think the housings hold up better from a corrosion standpoint, but they do break. I have heard of more than one that has broke.
Todd

if anyone has a broken one id be up for buying it. i need one to get the geometry from it

[iTurbo]

acannell - I'll send you a reply PM shortly. I have a housing I can send to you..

Todd - I will see what I can do about starting threads on the AACA's TC forum and at TD.com. I don't have a whole lot as far of direct contact info for others though. I will do what I can to spread the word and hopefully get as many interested people in on this that I can. I may even buy an extra or two; we'll see.

[acannell]

acannell - I'll send you a reply PM shortly. I have a housing I can send to you..

Todd - I will see what I can do about starting threads on the AACA's TC forum and at TD.com. I don't have a whole lot as far of direct contact info for others though. I will do what I can to spread the word and hopefully get as many interested people in on this that I can. I may even buy an extra or two; we'll see.

awesome! i wish i could get started drawing it up right now, this will be fun

get your ideas for improvements (cosmetic and/or function) ready, because im going to hit this really hard when it comes in

[Reaper1]

I'd be interested in the main body as well. I've already set-up procuring the cover.

[iTurbo]

There are a few new billet covers around. We have the covers done, no sense remaking those. I put together a group buy on these a few years ago. We made between 25-30 of these IIRC. Adam told me back when these were made he could remake these if there was enough demand. That is the beauty of CNC program. Here is pic of couple he made.
Todd

Thanks for posting that pic Todd. It really shows in one pic what can be done and also what could be done. Seeing parts like lengel, acannell, and and others have made makes me want to learn how to do this stuff. Just fascinating in itself what can be done with a CNC and somebody with skill and determination.

I am going to be sending off a stock Masi 16v thermostat housing tomorrow for development purposes!

[Reaper1]

SWEET!! Thank you, sir! :thumb:

[Wastelands Warrior]

You guys have some cool stuff going on with the Masi engines. :)

[Reaper1]

You ain't seen nothin' yet! ;) :thumb:

[acannell]

I've come up with the initial models, and made a group buy thread for the CNC machined billet Masi Thermostat Box! The price is $145 shipped!

I hope this is okay to post here!

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f321/f345/635050-masi-thermostat-box-group-buy-new-post.html

:thumb:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/tstatside_zpsb0e6b535.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/tstatside_zpsb0e6b535.jpg.html)

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/headside_zpsdd615f47.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/headside_zpsdd615f47.jpg.html)

[acannell]

i think i made the calculations for my cost a little too "worst" case so Im dropping the price to $145 shipped USA, and the group buy qty is only 10 now!

[turismolover22]

There is a group buy section here on tm as well asa

[acannell]

There is a group buy section here on tm as well asa

Thread created!

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?73829-Masi-thermostat-box-GROUP-BUY&highlight=

[Reaper1]

I know acennall knows this, but committed to 1 of these! WOOHOO!!!

[acannell]

I know acennall knows this, but committed to 1 of these! WOOHOO!!!

Yes its true! :cheer2:

Reaper1 is a man of commitment!!!!

Who will be next to commit?!?!

1. Iturbo
2.iTurbo
3.Reaper1
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
?!?!