Modified valve cover PCV setup

[Clay]

When converting my GLHT over to TII I knew there was a better way to setup the PCV system than using that crappy/funky rubber T thing on the stock TII cars, so I came up with this method.

First I pulled the elbow off the stock TI VC. (this would work the same on a straight nipple TII VC).

Stock:

http://www.joink.com/homes/users/cooke/86GLHT/86GLHT-valve-cover-mod-1.jpg

Removed:

http://www.joink.com/homes/users/cooke/86GLHT/86GLHT-valve-cover-mod-2.jpg

This is basically done by grabbing onto the nipple with some large pliers/vicegrips/whatever and twisting it off. It is just press fit into the hole.

Next, using a 3/8" NPT pipe tap I taped threads in the hole where the nipple was pressed in. This worked out fairly well, and I tapped them fairly deep as the hole in the valve cover is just a bit bigger than the drill you would normally use for a starter hole. If you didnt like this, you could always go with 1/2" NPT.

http://www.joink.com/homes/users/cooke/86GLHT/86GLHT-valve-cover-mod-3.jpg

Now you can screw in what ever kind of fitting you want to make your vacuum system. I put a brass T in the valve cover. The T had male threads on the center connection, and female threads on the outside connections. Then I went to autozone and bought a PCV valve with 3/8" male threads for one side (autozone PN: PCV176, $3.29, all steel construction), and a barbed 45' fitting w/ 3/8" male threads for the other side. It works out VERY well, and makes for a nice clean install, with out that crappy/funky rubber T that the factory uses. This also worked out very well with my vacuum block. As you can see in the pictures, there is just a short piece of hose between the PCV and a barbed fitting on the vacuum block.

http://www.joink.com/homes/users/cooke/86GLHT/86GLHT-valve-cover-mod-4.jpg

http://www.joink.com/homes/users/cooke/86GLHT/86GLHT-valve-cover-mod-5.jpg

[WVRampage]

Looks good.How well does it work?

[Frank]

How can you actually pull vacuum now? There is too much air volume and positive crank pressure for you to suck down.


Frank

[DBB mini]

Nice work Clay. FYI on a NPT tap, run the tap in until there are only 6-7 threads left exposed on the tap. This almost always makes a NPT thread gage fit perfectly. BTW this works on all NPT taps up to 1/2". Use WD-40 on the tap, prevents gualding/tearing.

Coy

[2.216VTurbo]

I think I missed something?

Are you running full manifold vac all the time to the valve cover with no PCV valve?

[DBB mini]

He's running a 3/8" NPT PCV valve.:thumb: But I think it needs to be in- between the vac line & the valve cover. Probably suck alot of vac where it's installed now.

Coy

[tryingbe]

Can you say boost leak?

[Clay]

This is setup just like the factory but with hard parts instead of the crappy/funky rubber fitting. One side of the T goes to a PCV then to the intake manifold, the other side of the T goes to the turbo inlet/air filter pipe. When your in vacuum, your sucking from both sides, when your in boost, the PCV valve closes, and your only sucking from the turbo inlet/air filter pipe.

[Clay]

Can you say boost leak?

How do you figure? I pull 15" vacuum, and run ~12 psi with no issues. This setup has been on the car and running all summer, and running well.

[DBB mini]

This is setup just like the factory but with hard parts instead of the crappy/funky rubber fitting. One side of the T goes to a PCV then to the intake manifold, the other side of the T goes to the turbo inlet/air filter pipe. When your in vacuum, your sucking from both sides, when your in boost, the PCV valve closes, and your only sucking from the turbo inlet/air filter pipe.
Factory goes straight from vac source to a pcv. You're sharing the vac source with the crankcase pressure.

[Clay]

Maybe this will help:

http://www.joink.com/homes/users/cooke/86GLHT/86GLHT-valve-cover-mod-5a.jpg

[DBB mini]

That does help. Just looks wrong. Nice work anyway:thumb:

Coy

[Clay]

Factory goes straight from vac source to a pcv. You're sharing the vac source with the crankcase pressure.

thats exactly what this does. Vacuum source (intake manifold) -> PCV -> VC <- turbo inlet/filter pipe

I modeled this system off of this picture: http://boostedmopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=51&d=1122387693 minus the catch can.

[DBB mini]

Yeah nice work, man.:thumb:

Coy

[Frank]

I should be shot, but I still dont see it. How can you draw enough vacuum to open the PCV to bring your vacuum manifold block to negative pressure?

[Clay]

Cool! Thanks man! Im just hoping I have it right! I haven't had any issues with it, but I get worried when people who have done this turbo thing longer than me get concerned/confused! ;)

[DBB mini]

I should be shot, but I still dont see it. How can you draw enough vacuum to open the PCV to bring your vacuum manifold block to negative pressure?
How does the factory set up draw enough?

[Frank]

I just think the PCV is in the wrong location. I would think it should be between the T and the VC. I am pretty positive that is how it should really go.


Frank

[DBB mini]

I just think the PCV is in the wrong location. I would think it should be between the T and the VC.


Frank
It basically is. It's vac source to PCV to tee in valve cover to filtered air.

Coy

[Clay]

I just think the PCV is in the wrong location. I would think it should be between the T and the VC. I am pretty positive that is how it should really go.


Frank

well, you could do it that way, but then when you hit boost and the PCV valve slams shut, you have nothing to vent the crank case or maybe they would fight each other. In the factory setup the crappy/funky rubber T does the same as this. One side goes to the intake, the other side goes to the air filter box, so it draws on that side all the time (If I remember right)

[Frank]

I dont see how the items plugged into the vacuum block can see enough vacuum when you have this big crank case producing lots of positive pressure. It would be different if the vacuum block wasnt tied into the same line. I guess I am just being weird, but I just dont see how it can work.


Frank

[Frank]

Is the vacuum block hooked to the intake also???? There is my brain fart doh!

[DBB mini]

Is the vacuum block hooked to the intake also????
:nod:

[Frank]

There we go. See I was thinking too literally... vacuum block... lol. Its a distrubution block. :) See I dont use one of those, so hence why I goofed. I forgot that the components that most people connect to those blocks is not vacuum related items... they are things like the map, bov, etc.

[Clay]

Is the vacuum block hooked to the intake also???? There is my brain fart doh!

yup. Here is a better picture:

http://www.joink.com/homes/users/cooke/86GLHT/86GLHT-upper-pipe-2.jpg

[MiniMopar]

The only concern I'd have is the slow dribble of oil that tends to come out of the PCV from the vapors and such. The stock setup has a dedicated line from the PCV to the intake so that the oil doesn't get into the rest of the vacuum system. In your case it will get sucked into the vacuum manifold and could find it's way to other parts of the system like and FPR or the MAP sensor.

[puppet]

Clay ... I see your using a top vented oil fill cap. I have a tip on a slight modification for it that will help maintain some vacuum.

Pull out the filter media and look down inside the cap. You'll see a bowl just where the vents are at the bottom. Cut a circular piece of rubber about an 1/8" thick or so to fit inside the bowl. (a little over 3/4" diameter I think .. choose something that can take some heat too).

Find the center of the rubber disc and drill a hole big enough for the legs of a cotter pin to pass through it ... but not the eye. Drop the disc inside the cap and feed the cotter pin through it and through the little hole in the bottom of the cap. When you bend the legs of the cotter pin over .. leave enough bend to allow the pin to let the disc up about 3/16" or so. Replace filter media.

Now the engine will vent pressure but not suck any air in through the vented cap. The rubber disc acts like a reed valve.

[zshadow]

all i have to say is wow.

this is an almost perfect setup that ive been thinking of doing myself but you beat me to it!

now are you personally running a catch can? off of the brass t and then running it into the turbo air inlet pipe?

what size hose are you using all the way around?

[Marcus86GLHS]

looks like good engineering to me. nice work Clay.

one way to improve the operation of all vacuum-operated items (except vacuum ventilation): swap the large soft rubber vacuum lines for small (5/32") hard plastic lines, gives vacuum signals with more fidelity and consistency.

[Clay]

The only concern I'd have is the slow dribble of oil that tends to come out of the PCV from the vapors and such. The stock setup has a dedicated line from the PCV to the intake so that the oil doesn't get into the rest of the vacuum system. In your case it will get sucked into the vacuum manifold and could find it's way to other parts of the system like and FPR or the MAP sensor.

thats probably a valid concern. Ill have to think about that one some more. I was going to drill/tap a dedicated vacuum source in the manifold for this setup, but it was so easy to use the existing opening in the vacuum block. The one thing I have going for me is the vacuum block is uphill from the PCV (doesn't do much for vapors), and the turbo inlet/filter pipe connection is down hill from the PCV, so hopefully this will keep oil low in the system.

[DodgeZ]

I just think the PCV is in the wrong location. I would think it should be between the T and the VC. I am pretty positive that is how it should really go.


Frank


If it was there it would just pull from the line going to the air box and not from the motor. Also when the car goes in to boost it would have a HUGE leak back in to the air box. Think about it Frank. If it was ran that way there would be a straight hose from the intake to the airbox with a tee'd off"check valve" to the VC.

The way he has it setup it right. When the car boosts it closes the PCV then the engine vents thru the air box.

[Clay]

Clay ... I see your using a top vented oil fill cap. I have a tip on a slight modification for it that will help maintain some vacuum.

Yeah, funny thing here. When I first got this car fired up and running as a bone stock TI last spring (05) it would make a funny whirling noise after it ran for a few minutes. I was able to figure out that it was the cam making the noise (at least thats what I thought), and the engine was building up super vacuum. The noise quite when I took the VC breather off, but boy was it hard to take off the suction was so high!! SO I put that breather on to allow it to suck air from somewhere. Now, I havent tried putting a regular cap back on yet, cause I still pull 15" vacuum with the setup I have.



Pull out the filter media and look down inside the cap. You'll see a bowl just where the vents are at the bottom. Cut a circular piece of rubber about an 1/8" thick or so to fit inside the bowl. (a little over 3/4" diameter I think .. choose something that can take some heat too).

Find the center of the rubber disc and drill a hole big enough for the legs of a cotter pin to pass through it ... but not the eye. Drop the disc inside the cap and feed the cotter pin through it and through the little hole in the bottom of the cap. When you bend the legs of the cotter pin over .. leave enough bend to allow the pin to let the disc up about 3/16" or so. Replace filter media.

Now the engine will vent pressure but not suck any air in through the vented cap. The rubber disc acts like a reed valve.

thanks for the idea! I might have to give this a shot!

[Clay]

all i have to say is wow.

thanks!




this is an almost perfect setup that ive been thinking of doing myself but you beat me to it!

now are you personally running a catch can? off of the brass t and then running it into the turbo air inlet pipe?

No, Im not running a catch can, but if I want to I just have to put it in the line between the T and the turbo air inlet pipe. I may do that yet down the road.


what size hose are you using all the way around?

all of this PCV system is 3/8" hose

[Clay]

looks like good engineering to me. nice work Clay.

Thanks Marcus! Appreciate it!




one way to improve the operation of all vacuum-operated items (except vacuum ventilation): swap the large soft rubber vacuum lines for small (5/32") hard plastic lines, gives vacuum signals with more fidelity and consistency.

Yeah, Ive thought about that one. I dont like the rubber lines flopping around either! Ive actually thought about getting some 1/8" SS lines and hard piping in most of the vacuum signal lines that I can, but I haven't got that far yet. Maybe just some plastic lines like you say would be the easiest for now.

[2.216VTurbo]

Four pictures, a sketch and a diagram later and I understand it:o

Nice set up Clay, I've been needing an example to build my system from:thumb:

As long as you have a good thread going (kind of a partial hijack;) ) What is in the catch can I have seen on the high boost/power cars from the magazines? Is there filter media in there? I have seen a few with a sight glass window, is there THAT much oil condensate getting trapped inside?

[Clay]

Four pictures, a sketch and a diagram later and I understand it:o

Nice set up Clay, I've been needing an example to build my system from:thumb:

As long as you have a good thread going (kind of a partial hijack;) ) What is in the catch can I have seen on the high boost/power cars from the magazines? Is there filter media in there? I have seen a few with a sight glass window, is there THAT much oil condensate getting trapped inside?

hehehe, thats ok, it took me 6 months to understand it and come up with something! ;)

as for the catch can, all of them Ive seen are just open on the inside. I guess you could put some filter media in it, or just use an oil/water separator for an air system.

[Frank]

If it was there it would just pull from the line going to the air box and not from the motor. Also when the car goes in to boost it would have a HUGE leak back in to the air box. Think about it Frank. If it was ran that way there would be a straight hose from the intake to the airbox with a tee'd off"check valve" to the VC.

The way he has it setup it right. When the car boosts it closes the PCV then the engine vents thru the air box.

your about 9 hrs behind my lightbulb lumination.

[Frank]

one thing I am curious about is the benifit of having the line coming from the vacuum block. Is it because there is a bigger vacuum (when compared to the turbo inlet) to draw during idle and cruise to suck the contaminants and neg crankcase pressure? Is that still the case with a bigger turbo? I understand wanting to ingest it in the intake vs the turbo, but I am just curious about effectiveness.

Frank

[Clay]

The only concern I'd have is the slow dribble of oil that tends to come out of the PCV from the vapors and such. The stock setup has a dedicated line from the PCV to the intake so that the oil doesn't get into the rest of the vacuum system. In your case it will get sucked into the vacuum manifold and could find it's way to other parts of the system like and FPR or the MAP sensor.

Just thought about this some more. This shouldn't be a problem most of the time because the manifold will be suching everything into itself. Drawing away FROM the MAP and FPR. The only thing it might be an issue is if there is residual oil in the system, and you hit boost, pushing some oil towards the MAP and FPR. But, since there is little actual air movement in those lines I doubt there would be much oil movement. Once they build up pressure, the air is probably pretty stagnent.

[MiniMopar]

thats probably a valid concern. Ill have to think about that one some more. I was going to drill/tap a dedicated vacuum source in the manifold for this setup, but it was so easy to use the existing opening in the vacuum block. The one thing I have going for me is the vacuum block is uphill from the PCV (doesn't do much for vapors), and the turbo inlet/filter pipe connection is down hill from the PCV, so hopefully this will keep oil low in the system.

Yeah, if these baffles did their job you'd probably be fine. Even with a properly sealed baffle, I still see some oil in the PCV line.

[MiniMopar]

Just thought about this some more. This shouldn't be a problem most of the time because the manifold will be suching everything into itself. Drawing away FROM the MAP and FPR. The only thing it might be an issue is if there is residual oil in the system, and you hit boost, pushing some oil towards the MAP and FPR. But, since there is little actual air movement in those lines I doubt there would be much oil movement. Once they build up pressure, the air is probably pretty stagnent.

Like I said above, I always find oil in the PCV line that goes into the manifold. Oil has a tendency to find it's way into any place it can reach. :thumb:

[mock_glh]

Maybe this will help:

http://www.joink.com/homes/users/cooke/86GLHT/86GLHT-valve-cover-mod-5a.jpg

I see another hose coming from the vacuum block on the left. Is that the fuel regulator? What else is hooked up to that block? The PCV system has incoming air flow and will cause inaccurate vacuum readings. The MAP sensor, fuel regulator, wastegate control, and boost gauge should not be connected to this.

As for the brass tee, that's hot!:thumb:

[Frank]

I was along the same thinking until I realized that the manifold block also is connected to the intake. its all good.

[BIGBRUDDA]

I concur Russ(Ya like that:) ).
Hot oil vapor recovery thru the PCV valve can lead to liquid "drawover". As a good deal of oil tends to build up in the valve cover at high or extended boost & RPM. Due to blow by in the crank case(the old "popup dipstick").
I installed a tygon tube "snorkel" on the stock valve cover vent.I observed oil levels as high as 3" above the valve cover .The factory rubber "T" allows for oil drainage to the airbox. Resulting in the messy stock air boxes and subsequent drainage onto the transmission. Not to mention a "puff -o- blue smoke "when backing off the throttle.:(
My brother, R/T initially solved this by venting the crankcase thru the old fuelpump blockoff plates.Unfortunately not an option on later model blocks.
I now vent the crankcase thru the dipstick.I use a 3/8" copper tee, T side vented to a piece of plastic or rubber hose to a catch can or bottle. Straight shot side presses to the top of dipstick tube,dipstick goes right back in. The stick is now 1" short( i can adjust):nod: . The catch can is vented to the airbox. I empty it whenever I check oil .But it's never had more than a few ounces in it.
I left the Tygon snorkel on the valve cover vent and installed the PCV there , rising approx 1/2" above the top of the valve cover ,resting on the intake manifold. I Ran the PCV vac to the brake booster fitting and Tee'd in there.
No more "pop up dipstick", no more messy airbox,no more "puff-o-blue".:thumb: Additionaly the valve cover gasket and camplug are much cleaner now.:amen:

[Clay]

I see another hose coming from the vacuum block on the left. Is that the fuel regulator? What else is hooked up to that block? The PCV system has incoming air flow and will cause inaccurate vacuum readings. The MAP sensor, fuel regulator, wastegate control, and boost gauge should not be connected to this.

As for the brass tee, that's hot!:thumb:

yup, FPR, MAP, grainger, and boost gauge are all hooked to that block. But like Frank said, its all good cause its hooked into the manifold.

[Marcus86GLHS]

yup, FPR, MAP, grainger, and boost gauge are all hooked to that block. But like Frank said, its all good cause its hooked into the manifold.

...seems good to me. looking at my car's bone stock setup, the PCV is tied into a nipple at the front of the intake manifold, but, on the rear of the intake manifold is a nipple leading to the 4-way vacuum connector which then feeds vacuum to the FPR and the wastegate solenoid.

seems the factory uses the intake manifold as a vacuum source for everything.

......unless, using two seperate intake manifold locations, one for crankcase vent and one for vacuum operation of critical engine functions is the key. not sure.

[mock_glh]

Try pinching the PCV hose shut while it's idling and see if the vacuum changes. If it does then you'll need to change something.:nod:

[turbovanman²]

I agree with Boyd, even though there all hooked up to manifold vacuum, using the same block will cause instability due the pcv valve venting and sealing. If you notice, the stock setups have the pcv hose routed away from the other vacuum devices.

[Clay]

Ok, the results are in.

To start with I used 2 gages. One is a standard autometer gage that reads at the TB. The 2nd gage is an industrial style test gauge, ±0.5% Full-Scale Accuracy (Grade 2A) Glycerin filled model (yes, its accurate, calibrated, pricey, and works very nicely). This 2nd gage was connected directly to the vacuum distribution block since thats what everyone seems so concerned with.

I allowed the car to completely warm up before I started taking readings, and I did this test twice to double check.

1st test (specifically watching autometer gage as line was clamped):

before clamping line shut:
autometer gage: 16 in/Hg
industrial gage: 18 in/Hg

after clamping line shut:
autometer gage: same (16 in/Hg)
industrial gage: same (18 in/Hg)

2nd test (specifically watching industrial gage as line was clamped):

before clamping line shut:
autometer gage: 16 in/Hg
industrial gage: 18 in/Hg

after clamping line shut:
autometer gage: same (16 in/Hg)
industrial gage: same (18 in/Hg)

In both cases there was no change in either gage. Even while the line was being clamped, nothing changed.

Good enough for me! You guys can make your own decisions, but for me this is the way to go. :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

Now go for a drive and hit boost and see what happens, I bet the block guage will be all over the place.

[Clay]

doesnt really matter because the PCV valve closes when you hit boost. Which basically takes it out of the equation, ie like putting a plug in the end of the vacuum block. Plus, when Im in boost going down the track the gage is rock solid.

[johnl]

Clay, I like the simplicity and elegance of the connection to the end of the vacuum distribution block. But . . . I'm with the factory, Boyd and Turbovanman.

Mopar's design has a "clean side" and a "dirty side." The vacuum port on the back of the IM handles "clean" pressure/vacuum to sensors and solenoids and such - these items ought to stay clean - no exposure to oil or gasoline. The port on the front handles the pcv and the charcoal canister - potential sources of contamination if they are in the same circuit as solenoids, MAP, WG, FPR, etcetera.

That said, I'm a hypocrite. The vacuum line to my GLHS's G valve connects to a Tee between the PCV valve and the IM - so now I am wondering if oil is traveling down that line, through the G valve, and on to the interior of the WG and maybe damaging the diaphram on the WG? Or, maybe filling up the SG can and ? ? changing the volume of air inside the WG can and thereby setting up a potential for problems with boost control.

Anyway, I think I'll change it and take the G valve line off of the back of the IM! Boyd spotted my G valve hook up and told me it was wrong. He's right.

[Clay]

I guess what I dont understand is why you guys are calling it a 'clean' and a 'dirty' side. I mean I understand why you would think that, but really, how is either any different?

When in vacuum, my setup draws from the intake manifold, and from the turbo inlet/filter pipe. So any oil/whatever is going to be drawn into the intake or the turbo inlet pipe, ie AWAY from all the sensors.

When my GLHT was a factory TI car, the sensors were all fed from one point on the intake manifold like you guys are talking about, but what difference does it make? When your in vacuum, your drawing away from the sensors, when the intake manifold goes into boost, guess what, your putting positive pressure (boost pressure) against all the sensors, ie pushing air to them, or are you. Pressure is caused primarily by restriction. once you build that pressure, the air doesnt really move much, unless you have a leak.

On my bone stock 87 GLHS, the sensors are fed from the back of the intake, and you will have the same result. Pulling away in vacuum, and pushing towards the sensors under boost. The only differnce in my setup is the sensor feed is actually part of the PCV system, but vacuum is vacuum, and boost is boost.

So during boost, both my system, and the factory TI and TII systesm act the same. The only difference is during vacuum, my system has the sensors plumbed into the PCV vacuum source, and the stock system is separate, but still drawing its sample from the same place.

anyway, Im not worried about it to much. Based soley on this thread, I will check my sensors and lines from time to time for oil, but I doubt Ill find much if any. If I do, all I have to do is unplug the port on the back of the 2 piece, move the vacuum block to the back side, and add an elbow and hose barb to the front side.

I tell you all what, I fully expected this thread to be looked over and not do much but take up space. Thanks to everyone for the great conversation and debate!! I really appreciate the fact that people are this interested in something like this.

clay

[Aries_Turbo]

looks good. i too would be concerned with false readings especially to the map and fpr but that shouldnt happen unless the pvc is flowing alot of air or leaking or something like that. that said, id separate the two due to the fact that there could be easily something to clog the pcv.

id run the pcv to the elbow on the back of the manifold myself cause the vac block looks so cool there. :)

btw, where did you get that pcv valve?

Brian

[2.216VTurbo]

Well put Clay:D

BTW did you mention where that PCV that fits into your T was sourced from? I still want to build the same set up for my motor.:thumb:

[2.216VTurbo]

looks good. i too would be concerned with false readings especially to the map and fpr but that shouldnt happen unless the pvc is flowing alot of air or leaking or something like that. that said, id separate the two due to the fact that there could be easily something to clog the pcv.

id run the pcv to the elbow on the back of the manifold myself cause the vac block looks so cool there. :)

btw, where did you get that pcv valve?

Brian


Damn you and your faster fingers than mine Brian:p

[Aries_Turbo]

;)

hehe

[Ground Rat]

btw, where did you get that pcv valve?


BTW did you mention where that PCV that fits into your T was sourced from?


Then I went to autozone and bought a PCV valve with 3/8" male threads for one side, and a barbed 45' fitting w/ 3/8" male threads for the other side.
:thumb:

[GLHS592]

Maybe I just missed it...You got any part #'s on the brass T and the PCV valve? Where did you get the brass fitting?

[Clay]

Ill get a list of PNs together for you guys today. I purposely *tried* to save the box for the PCV valve, but I searched yesteday through the garage and it must not have made it through the last cleanup. So Ill go back to autozone today and get the number for that.

clay

[cordes]

Ill get a list of PNs together for you guys today. I purposely *tried* to save the box for the PCV valve, but I searched yesteday through the garage and it must not have made it through the last cleanup. So Ill go back to autozone today and get the number for that.

clay

That would be great. I am running my PCV valve to the block like you are doing, and I have not had a problem yet. I don't think that I have seen any oil in any of the lines either. It has been running like that for a couple of years now. Although I have not driven the car too much in that time.

[Clay]

Ok everyone, here is the info on the setup.

PCV: from autozone, Deutsch part, PN: PCV176 this has a 3/8" male NPT on one end, and a 3/8" barb fitting on the other. I selected this PCV valve because of the position it mounted in, it had to be closed under boost. This one did that. There are others that may have worked if I wanted to put the PCV valve on the other side (ie on the vacuum block) but this one works for this specific application. Some will close the other direction, so be carefull of where you put it and make sure it will close off the valve cover side under boost.

Tee: (note: this is not a typical TD friendly cheap part) This is a "precision yellow brass" tee from McMaster Carr, the outsides of the Tee are 3/8" female NPT, the center is 3/8" male NPT. PN: 9171K88 It costs almost $27, but it is what I wanted. Other tees from McMaster Carr (or your local hardware/industrial supply store) may work, but this one one was deepest (distance from center line of outlets to base of inlet) of the 3 availabe from McMaster. Here is a 'print' of this fitting: 3/8" Tee fitting print (http://www.mcmaster.com/library/20051108/9171K880L.GIF)

From there its just regular 3/8" male barb x 3/8" male NPT fittings, one straight, and a couple of 45 degree ones.

Hope this helps.

clay

[GLHS592]

Thanks Clay. I've been needing to build a PCV system for my car and that looks like the trick.

[GLHS592]

I bought a brass tee with 2 female ends and a female center. I had to buy an adapter since they didn't have a tee with a male center. It cost me $6.08 before taxes at Home Depot.

[slasky]

For some reason mine was too close to the fuel rail so I plumbed it this way:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1022/532335106_564cbba7d9.jpg?v=0
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1032/532335176_5421a4494a.jpg?v=0

[Clay]

Sweet! that will work as well! :)

[cordes]

I am thinking of going this route with the omni. Would there be any advantage to using a TBI valve cover with this type of setup that anyone could see? I have one, and would like to use it, but I don't know what to do with the second port. Perhaps have the pass side port going directly to the PCV then the intake, and the drivers side going to the ambient air into the turbo to pull all the time?

[slasky]

Do you know what the part number is fro a PCV valve that looks just like the one you used but the valve works the opposite way? I want to put one on my catch can so that it will let extra pressure out the top.

[Clay]

I know there is one, but Im not sure what the part number is. Your best bet is to go to the store and look through what they have. I was lucky and found one that was already open so I was able to play with it before I bought it.

[firebaron90]

Clay, I have the components for the set up. Wow So much nicer and cleaner. I have a nice vented catch can, so I dont think i will need a vented oil cap. Just need to drill and tap the air intake to the turbo .


Joe

[GLHNSLHT2]

The only concern I'd have is the slow dribble of oil that tends to come out of the PCV from the vapors and such. The stock setup has a dedicated line from the PCV to the intake so that the oil doesn't get into the rest of the vacuum system. In your case it will get sucked into the vacuum manifold and could find it's way to other parts of the system like and FPR or the MAP sensor.


I see another hose coming from the vacuum block on the left. Is that the fuel regulator? What else is hooked up to that block? The PCV system has incoming air flow and will cause inaccurate vacuum readings. The MAP sensor, fuel regulator, wastegate control, and boost gauge should not be connected to this.

As for the brass tee, that's hot!:thumb:

+1 on these posts but Oil is only a secondary concern for me. Sure at idle squeezing that line you might not see a change in vacuum in a gauge, Why? because the motor sucks enough air. But my concern is in how quickly the gauges see vacuum at throttle positions or at steady cruise where the motor might not be pulling enough vacuum to make up for the difference of the big "vacuum leak" aka PCV vs what the motor is seeing. Factory had them 2 seperate systems for a reason.

I run stock size vac lines in polyurethane that bend easier but don't balloon or collapse in boost or vacuum and won't heat harden like the stock nylon and flow better as well. I keep the lines short as possible and dedicate a line for each important sensor/signal aka map and FPR. http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=2652

here you can see the 2 setups I run right now. The one on top is for my new yorker which retains factory boost control + a sensor for the Voice Alert System minus the Purge cannister setup. The bottom one is for my ShelbyZ which used just a grainger that just has a 90 and a straight rubber fitting on it that is fed off the fitting just above the actuator.

PCV system is just a VC breather. Don't see the point in pluming it back into the intake. All it does is suck oil out of the motor. It's closed under boost and just venting to atmosphere anyway.

Notice now that the factory cars have the map bolted directly to the intake manifold which tells me that an instant/clean signal to the map is very important.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Keep the 2 systems seperate. You're contaminating the signal to the other sensors and I don't mean by oil.

[The Pope]

Keep the 2 systems seperate. You're contaminating the signal to the other sensors and I don't mean by oil.

no kidding, I love running the PCV and the map on the same line really works good to give the computer a lower vac signal so you chew more fuel :thumb:

PCVs also need gavity to work right, so how do you get the thing to even work side ways? The idea of using a steel connection at the valve cover is good, but go all the way, give the thing its own vac line to the intake and run the PVC straight up like it should. I would run 2 PCV valves straight up on a T like that. one into the intake and one into a hose that goes to the air box or on the ground. Hooked up the regular way one of the valves works under vac and the vac with gravity will shut the second valve. Then when boost hits the intake valve shuts and the second valve opens to release crank case pressure.:clap:

[Clay]

you guys really need to think and look more at how I have it run. as for PCV needing gravity.... 1) you must not have seen very many factory PCV setups, 2) the spring in that PCV valve must be there for no reason.

Really, no more discussion on the how and why in this thread. If you want that, take it to the original thread, where its already been discussed. the op just asked for what people are doing.

[GLHNSLHT2]

most of the PCV valves I've messed with have had no spring. But that's not my issue. It's the contamination/corruption of the vacuum readings.

[Clay]

been there, done that, took the pressure readings, no problems, have the time slips.

(oh yeah, and I moved the posts over to where they should be)

[GLHNSLHT2]

you can't affect it fast enough squeezing it with a pair of pliers. Your map isn't getting a true signal in transitions of throttle. If you think you are fine, but you're not. Don't move my posts. My post was meant to keep the guy looking for what people are doing from doing something that's wrong. As you can see I posted in both threads originally. This doesn't need to turn into TD.com

[Clay]

your posts will get moved when necessary. This thread is already here to discuss this setup, this is the place to have the discussion about it.

as for effecting it fast enough with a pair of pliers....... I had no intention to do any kind of timed effect. I wanted a reading with the line open, and a reading with the line closed. On, off, thats all, to show there was little to no difference in the reading.

when ran with an OTC scanner hooked up, there isnt any issues with the MAP sensor reading either, and their wont be because the PCV valve shuts when in boost.

When you get right down to it..... the main point of this post is the reworking of the PCV valve/tee/etc. If you dont like how I ran my vacuum block connected to it, then dont do it. My primary point was to clean up the factory PCV system.

[Aries_Turbo]

clay, not to be a butt but i agree with GLHSLH. unless you have a datalogging o-scope, you wont be able to see the transition point. plus the probability of the PCV valve getting buggered up is fairly high. it is SAFER to keep the systems separate. i know ill never do it this way.

Respectfully submitted,

Brian

[Clay]

Never said it was better, or the best way to do it, just saying that it does work. AND I do understand what everyone is saying about the vacuum source possibly being screwed with, Im not denying that.

For me, I dont really care to much about part throttle/vacuum driving. This is on a car which sees mostly drag strip time, and in that case, it works as intended. In boost, the valve is closed off and everything on the block sees only boost. Everything on the other side helps to evacuate crankcase pressure so its all good in tha hood.

[GLHS592]

Here is how I did mine. For right now, I have a hose going directly to my air filter from the brass "T". I'm going to build a catch can later on. It seems to work great without the catch can. Thanks for the idea, Clay.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/SC_PCV_Setup.JPG

[turbovanman²]

clay, not to be a butt but i agree with GLHSLH. unless you have a datalogging o-scope, you wont be able to see the transition point. plus the probability of the PCV valve getting buggered up is fairly high. it is SAFER to keep the systems separate. i know ill never do it this way.

Respectfully submitted,

Brian

I agree too, PCV's don't seal 100% so you will get some leaking or bleeding of the signal.

[Aries_Turbo]

i believe that the pcv valve that clay chose for his build does seal fully out of the package under boost.... however, if one small chunk of oil sludge/grime contaminates that seal, well, you can see the outcome of that.

Brian