Powder coating 'Turbo I' airbox and snorkel

[iTurbo]

So I'm about to attempt something kind of crazy. I would really like to powder coat the air box and 'snorkel' on an '85 Turbo I engine that I have built. I would like to do it so that it matches the valve cover that I have already coated.

Question is, can those parts take the heat of curing in the oven without melting down? I have already powder coated the factory plastic valve cover on my Caliber SRT-4 and it turned out great. It is a bit tricky powder coating plastic but it can be done.

What I'm really wondering is if thermoplastic from '85 can withstand the heat. The '08 valve cover I did held up great at 400'F, but back in '85 I'm not sure if thermoplastics had advanced to the point of holding up to that...Anybody out there ever heard of somebody doing this? The color I want to do is only available in a powder and I REALLY want it to match the valve cover so I think I'm going to try. Worst case is I have to buy a new TI snorkel and air box.

[contraption22]

I'd find a broken and/or spare identical part to try it out on first.

[turismolover22]

I can throw that in the box as well if you want the rest of the stuff lol

[iTurbo]

I can throw that in the box as well if you want the rest of the stuff lol

That would be great! I was going to let you know that I also need the rubber coupler that sits between the snorkel and air box. Can't seem to find that either.

I'll post pics if it works out.

[zin]

If that doesn't work, you might look into "vacuum metalizing", might be too "chromey" for your taste though.

Mike

[turismolover22]

Worst you can do is take your spare parts, or the ones i send ya, and throw them in the oven at the required temp for powdercoating. If it doesnt melt, good to go haha.I know they designed that plastic to withstand most heat, they dont burn well thats for sure.

[iTurbo]

Yeah, so far I think it will work OK. I may set the oven at something more like 350'F and extend the cure time a bit.

When I coated the plastic valve cover on my CSRT, I actually coated it three times! First I did a base coat of Blasted Aluminum, then a coat of Metallic Bronze, and finished it with a gloss clear coat (all Eastwood powders). I had to take it out of the oven and let the temp drop a bit between each coat, but it never warped at all. Hasn't leaked any oil at all since installing it many thousands of miles ago.

I found the trick to powder coating plastic is to "hot flock" it, which basically means you have to coat it warm/hot to get the powder to attract to the object since you can't rely on static adhesion much.

I have a feeling most won't like the color I picked for my recent TI build. Engine is going into a black/tan Omni GLH....I think it looks really cool. It is a wrinkle powder.

47240

[CRUZER]

Looks awesome.....

[iTurbo]

Tonight I tried to powder coat the TI air box lid. It didn't go so well....

First of all the air box itself held up pretty well. First I tried preheating it to ~200'F. I pulled it out of the oven and attempted to coat it, but it wasn't hot enough for the powder to stick much. So I put it back in the oven and turned it up to 300'F. I waited 10 minutes and pulled it out again and tried to coat it again. This time it worked really well! It was just hot enough for the powder to melt on contact. I did try hooking up the ground clip and strangely, that actually seemed to help with powder adhesion even though it's plastic (?).

I put it back in the oven and turned it to 350'F to cure. Waited 15 minutes and the wrinkle texture seemed to develop nicely looking at it through the oven window. I pulled it back out and noticed there was a couple spots I didn't get the powder onto....namely right where I had the ground clip at. So I decided to put a bit more powder on that area to cover it. I put it back in the oven and turned it up to 400'F this time. Waited another 10 minutes and things started going bad. The powder started blistering all over!

I'm thinking that I either had the temp too high, applied too much powder, or over-cured it by attempting to do the 'touch-up'. Bummer because it looked great the first time I took it out of the oven...I should have left well enough alone at that point. After the air box lid cooled a bit, I tried to install it onto the lower half of the air box. It still fit, but it was tighter than before. I think it deformed just a tiny bit; not enough that you can see, but with it fitting tighter onto the lower half of the box it's pretty obvious.

If I try this again, I will likely use less powder and lower the temp probably to 350'F max. The tricky thing about powder coating plastic is that you have to rely on heat to get the powder to stick. With metal parts, you can rely on static adhesion to get an even coat. When using heat to get the powder to stick, you have to be really careful of the powder buildup on areas that are level. I may try to coat the part hanging upside-down in order to circumvent this next time.

[zin]

Sounds like 400 makes the plastic start to out-gas, causing the blistering. I'm impressed that it did as well as it did, and am anxious to see what comes now that it's known what the limits are.

Mike

- - - Updated - - -

Sounds like 400 makes the plastic start to out-gas, causing the blistering. I'm impressed that it did as well as it did, and am anxious to see what comes now that it's known what the limits are.

Mike

[iTurbo]

Yeah, I may even try again at 325'F and curing a little longer at a lower temp. I think that will help a lot. It definitely seemed to out-gas once the part got up to 400'F. I'm not sure how else to explain all the blistering.

The air box lid I tried had been previously cracked and repaired with what looked like JBWeld on the inside to seal the crack. The JBWeld was not affected at all by the heat and the repaired crack didn't change. I did manage to remove most of the coating with "Zip Strip" which worked great and didn't seem to affect the air box plastic at all. I'll probably try to recoat it once I get all the old coating off for the sake of more practice. Once I get it down I'll coat the snorkel piece that sits atop the throttle body too. I'm also trying to figure out a way to get the "FUEL INJECTION" letters silver. Not sure if I should just block sand them out and carefully hand paint them with some Testors enamel or what.

[iTurbo]

I tried again to powder coat the air box lid and snorkel today. I had to strip all the old PC off the air box lid from my first attempt which was a pain. I preheated the parts for about 10 minutes at 325'F and after coating left the cure temp at 325'F as well. Both parts came out great with no blistering this time. It seems that if the temp starts to go about about 350'F they will start to out-gas. I didn't think plastic parts would do that, but with all the blistering and peeling it seems obvious.

The valve cover, air box lid, and snorkel all have matching chestnut wrinkle brown powder coating now and I think it looks good. I coated the intake manifold, throttle body adapters, and turbo compressor housing in blasted aluminum. Fuel rail is argent silver (almost chrome) Going into my black/tan Omni GLH Turbo so I think it will work well. Will post a pic soon.

[BadAssPerformance]

Pics?

[iTurbo]

479064790747899479004790147902479034790447905

I know it's probably not for everybody, but I like it.

Valve cover, air box lid, snorkel are Chestnut Wrinkle Brown.
A/C bracket, thermostat outlet, intake manifold, compressor housing, and throttle body adapters are Blasted Aluminum
Fuel rail is Argent Silver

Just about everything that is black is NAPA engine enamel, semi-gloss black (block, brackets, pullies, tubes etc).

[DOHCRT]

Looks pretty sharp Jeremy...Good job!!

[zin]

I concur! Very nice!

Mike

- - - Updated - - -

I concur! Very nice!

Mike

[HSKR]

You sure you can't use the static charge to attract the powder to the plastic? May not work with the ground clip like it does on metal, but I know you can build up a static charge on plastic. Just might be the wrong polarity to attract the powder coming out of the gun.

You may also consider trying a different brand of powder if you continue to do plastics. I've used some with recommended bake temps as low as 300 degrees. I've bought all my media through Ebay.

Everything blue under the hood of my truck I did myself in my garage as well as three sets of rims. The blue is a two stage powder with metallic silver base coat and a candy blue top coat. Matches the factory Intense Blue paint almost exactly.
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w486/hskr23/Members%20ride/motor.jpg (http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/hskr23/media/Members%20ride/motor.jpg.html)

[iTurbo]

I have a couple ideas on getting the powder to stick better onto plastic parts. I actually do see a little bit of static adhesion, but it isn't much. It's a little better when the parts are warm, but with these parts (lid and snorkel), I had to warm them up pretty good so that the plastic melted a bit on contact.

The gun I'm using is the cheap Eastwood gun. I have a feeling if I had a better gun, like their dual voltage unit, it would improve the static adhesion even more. I'm also going to try and improve the grounding in our shop. There is a ground rod buried pretty deep out back. Sometimes I coat parts lying on the oven rack, so I don't have to touch them to get them in the oven...just slide the rack back in the oven when I'm done. I think that if I attach a copper wire from the ground rod to the oven rack while coating it may help.

Coating plastic gets pretty tricky though, especially trying to build an even consistent coat. Relying more on heat and gravity than static adhesion really makes it tricky. Thanks for the positive comments though; I was afraid a few people would balk at the color choice. I really like wrinkle powders and was going for a very low-key/humble look.

[Turbo224]

That looks awesome! Nice to see someone actually put together a clean, stock, T1 motor.

[HSKR]

I use a cheap self contained Craftsman gun to do all mine. Only problem I really run into is the capacity of the cup for the media, and bad media that doesn't flow as well as it should, usually from being too humid.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ey-5OWUDL._SY300_.jpg

[iTurbo]

That looks awesome! Nice to see someone actually put together a clean, stock, T1 motor.

Thanks Tyler. This is only the second motor I've built from the ground up. The first was a 2.2L TIII for the Spirit R/T I sold to a local friend I did earlier this year. After that I decided to go from the ground up....the TI is done, I have a TII to do next, then some TIIIs....then some really cool stuff after that. Thankfully I get better/faster at it with each build!

[cordes]

That is awesome. Nice work sir.

[Turbo224]

Thanks Tyler. This is only the second motor I've built from the ground up. The first was a 2.2L TIII for the Spirit R/T I sold to a local friend I did earlier this year. After that I decided to go from the ground up....the TI is done, I have a TII to do next, then some TIIIs....then some really cool stuff after that. Thankfully I get better/faster at it with each build!

Its much better to learn on the cheaper stuff than risk blowing up a 16v motor. Good choice!

[iTurbo]

Thanks guys. It was a fun project to try to do something different. I think what got me started on trying to PC plastic parts was the fact that the noobs on the CSRT forums were saying it couldn't be done (and vendors...go figure). They were saying I would have to buy an Evo X valve cover (cast alum) and PC that to do what I wanted for my Caliber. Well I definitely proved them wrong, but it's not they like they would ever listen anyway. I know I'm not the first person to do something like this. I read a post on some forum I can't remember about a technique called 'hot flocking' to powder coat parts where static adhesion was limited. Between that and the state of modern thermoplastics I thought I would give it a try... Hot flocking basically means using heat to attract the powder to the part.

I appreciate the comments though. The guys I work with are like, "yeah, Chrysler four cylinder motor, BFD". Oh well, they don't seem to have any hobbies aside from watching football and drinking beer anyway. (...although I admit I like beer too..)

I'll be posting a thread in the Project Log forum when I have all my ducks in a row for this motor and my Omni GLH Turbo. Some of you might remember the setup I used to have in that which was a 2.5L TI, big NPR intercooler etc... it's going to look a lot different being all stock again but I will enjoy it just as much if not more. There is a pic of the old setup in my Garage page. I had a lot of fun with that setup when I used to deliver pizza at Dominos!

[86Shelby]

Those pieces look fantastic. Job well done!

I seem to remember an engine bay looking eerily similar to the one in your Omni in the die cast car that I bought a few years back as well....

[iTurbo]

Those pieces look fantastic. Job well done!

I seem to remember an engine bay looking eerily similar to the one in your Omni in the die cast car that I bought a few years back as well....

Holy cow, so I'm not the only one that thought so!!

My MOM bought me one of those Omni GLH die cast models from eBay for Christmas. Imagine my surprise when I popped the hood and it looked so much like my own Omni GLH under the hood! I told my mom it was the best Christmas gift ever!

[sl3196]

Looks really good, nice work jeremy!

[iTurbo]

Thanks Dan/Ray/Vic/Cordes/Tyler. I am a bit surprised as I was sure people would see wrinkle brown and be aghast at the color choice. I got the Chestnut Wrinkle Brown powder from http://www.roseyspowdercoating.com I also have a blue wrinkle and architectural bronze from them that I like a lot and may use in the future.

Next engine I do will be an '87 Turbo II for my Shelby Lancer which currently has rod bearings that are beat to a pulp. I have a real hard time thinking of anything that looks better than black wrinkle for a Turbo II though. I like red wrinkle, but I feel it would be too much red unless it was a TIII. I have a very special set of TIII valve covers/intake from Ray in wrinkle red that I can't wait to use for a future project!

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

thread is a little old but I'll add that if you want the lettering and fins on the air cleaner lid "chrome" , some chrome trim tape of some sort would work
IF the glue will stay stuck to the part and the finish dosen't age to much , to fast

I've used regular metal duct tape to do this before but it oxidizes pretty quick - though that matches the ageing of the bare aluminum valve cover fins pretty well

a chrome tape can also be used to restore the lettering on badges etc

[GLHNSLHT2]

While I don't care for the brown the work looks quality. One thing is that maybe get a sanding block that you can attach some sandpaper too and sand the letters one way. This will put a grain on them and make them look a little more "machined" than just sanding in odd directions. Or an aluminum block that's flat with double sided tape on it you can stick sand paper too and then cut the overlap of the paper off with an exact-o-knife.

[black86glhs]

A little late, but these older plastics start to get soft around 350-400 degrees. They won't get mushy until they have been exposed to these temps for a while, but be careful. The blistering was most likely the off gassing Mike mentioned. That is what I meant by the start to get soft. That is the first step.
With that out of the way, I think they turned out good. Nice work Jeremy.:thumb:

[iTurbo]

While I don't care for the brown the work looks quality. One thing is that maybe get a sanding block that you can attach some sandpaper too and sand the letters one way. This will put a grain on them and make them look a little more "machined" than just sanding in odd directions. Or an aluminum block that's flat with double sided tape on it you can stick sand paper too and then cut the overlap of the paper off with an exact-o-knife.

Thanks, I've given a lot of thought on how to get the letters to turn out better. I definitely want the brushed aluminum or 'machined' look, but I have never quite been satisfied with the results so far. I think I have a block that I could wrap some sand paper around, but am unsure of grit # to use and wether or not I should wet sand it or dry?

About the brown color, the more I look at it the more I like it, especially the matte gloss of the wrinkle powders. I will very likely be adding the old Direct Connection top mounted intercooler setup to this engine soon as well.

[86Shelby]

I have wet sanded the lettering on valve covers whenever possible. Putting them in the kitchen sink with the water running when no one else is around works well for me. I usually start with 4-500 grit and end up with 7-800 grit.

[HSKR]

I would probably do a two stage powder process with the color you want the lettering as your base coat, then masking them off with the high temp tape and then applying your main color. Then a clear over everythign to smooth out the edges.