Caliber vs all

[iTurbo]

Soo as some of you know, I'm the original owner of an '08 Caliber SRT-4. I've owned the car since May of '09 when I bought it during Chrysler's "fire sale" when they were faced with going bankrupt before American taxpayer bailed them out.

So far, the ONLY mod I have done to the car is the addition of Mopar Stage 1. The car still has the original air filter and most of the OEM air is still in the tires. The car is fun as hell and is way faster than any older turbo Mopar I have. In fact, I have to admit it's likely the fastest car I've ever driven.

Lately I've indulged in a bit more street racing than I should. I've raced a new Camaro SS, a new 5.0 Mustang, a 6.0 Pontiac GTO and I've beat them all on the street. All of them I had raced twice; once from a roll just 10 MPH and once again from about 30 MPH to well over 100. No problem outrunning them all, but I did lose to a Z06 Corvette and that just barely walked away.

I know some are going to read this and think I'm full of crap. To tell you the truth I could care less if I win or lose and I think it's just as much fun losing, if not more so because it gives me a better idea of where the car stands.

What I don't understand is how these newer 400+ HP muscle cars are unable to keep up with the Caliber. Do I have some kind of freak car or what?! I've beat on an STI or two, a Mustang Mach I, and an EvoX and it just doesn't even seem like that big of a deal anymore. What gives??

I have more mods ready to go for the car. A NeedsWings catless down pipe with cutout, NeedsWings intake and BOV, ND 'driver mod' etc.... But why bother! This car is a beast! This must be like what is was like for a new owner of a GLHS pounding Corvettes back in the 80s!

[supercrackerbox]

Have you had it on a dyno?

[contraption22]

Have you had it on a dyno?

Bah Humbug.

Have you had it to the track? Trap speed will tell the story.

[83scamp]

I know SRT-4 Caliber's are pretty quick, and I'm not trying to dog your ride, but it sounds to me like you've been racing a bunch of guys with more money than brains.... A lot guys buy those cars(Camaros, Mustangs, etc.) because they suffer TPS, they are compensating for other areas....

They will sell those cars to anybody, but not anybody can get the most out of them. That's the biggest problem today, they will give a license to anybody, but not everybody is a good driver.

Over the years owning my Scamp, I've waxed my fair share of Mustangs, Camaros, and the occasional ricer. Was it because I have more horsepower, or the faster vehicle? Probably not. I just understand how to drive and get the maximum out of my vehicles. You would be amazed at how many of these morons don't understand how to launch a vehicle, or are afraid to push RPM's, or push them too far, etc...

[Reaper1]

For all the crap I like to give them, the C-SRT4's aren't slouches. It's power/weight, and I'm willing to bet that you have an advantage over the cars you've raced by a bit. Now, let the race go above 130mph and you'll start to see the difference, but at that point it's no longer drag racing or street racing at the power levels we are talking about here. For what they are, the C-SRT4 isn't a "bad" car...it's just not the car people expected to carry the torch from the N-SRT4 (plus it's fugly and the interior is worse than a bunch of melted Duplo bricks). I just wish they would have finished developing that suspension I got to experience at SDAC18 on that pre-production car...that thing was BAD @SS!!! :thumb:

[thedon809]

The 2011 calibers have a much nicer interior than prior ones. The world engine is pretty damn solid too. The alternators on them suck, but other than that I rarely see problems with them.

[glhs727]

The caliber is pretty quick. With the stage 1 and a K&N, you will be just over 300whp. Not bad since your car only weighs about 2800 lbs and the Camaro puts down about 345 whp and weighs about 3800 lbs. I think the gearing in the caliber is pretty good as well. I'm not surprised with the gto and Camaro but the new mustang should have taken you LOL

[Vigo]

Yep, it's all about the weight in this case. And that fact that the cars you raced must have been pretty much completely stock.

If they had made an SRT Patriot i would have considered it...

[85glht]

I'm not surprised with the gto and Camaro but the new mustang should have taken you LOL


Agreed! The person in the Mustang 5.0 should have beaten you..... But he/she didn't so good for you! Haha!

I wouldn't hesitate to do your other mods. The kills will be swifter. :)

[thedon809]

Yep, it's all about the weight in this case. And that fact that the cars you raced must have been pretty much completely stock.

If they had made an SRT Patriot i would have considered it...That would be pretty cool. Atleast they finally ditched the CVT and gave it the hyundai 6 speed auto (except the trail rated version).

[Vigo]

Oh really? I never knew that. I drove a CVT caliber once and hated it. Ive never driven a 'regular' CVT that would move out from a stop well enough with a small motor. The nissan V6s probably do. People think CVTs are infinitely variable but they only vary within a range of ratios, and usually the low end isnt low enough to make a small motor feel good. My .02.

[thedon809]

Oh really? I never knew that. I drove a CVT caliber once and hated it. Ive never driven a 'regular' CVT that would move out from a stop well enough with a small motor. The nissan V6s probably do. People think CVTs are infinitely variable but they only vary within a range of ratios, and usually the low end isnt low enough to make a small motor feel good. My .02.Yeah I drove a maxima with a cvt and it wasn't bad. Both compass and patriot got the hyundai 6f24 as well as the 2.0/2.4 dart. They will use that trans until 9 speed production ramps up.

[glhs727]

If they had made an SRT Patriot i would have considered it... yea, especially if it had a supercharged v6 !!!

[shadow88]

The caliber is pretty quick. With the stage 1 and a K&N, you will be just over 300whp. Not bad since your car only weighs about 2800 lbs and the Camaro puts down about 345 whp and weighs about 3800 lbs. I think the gearing in the caliber is pretty good as well. I'm not surprised with the gto and Camaro but the new mustang should have taken you LOL

Where did you pull 2800 pounds from? I found 3248 as tested reported by Edmunds. 3189 from Allpar

[Reaper1]

Yeah, C-SRT4's are about as heavy as Spirit R/T's and IROC R/T's because they were heavier than the N-SRT4.

[sl3196]

I know of a G8 GT in town you haven't ran yet! haha

[MILKCARTON]

2800 lbs. is not even close to what they weigh, I have driven several, stock to modified extensively and have never been impressed

[iTurbo]

Wow, so I kinda forgot I made this thread! I was sorta expecting more Caliber SRT bashing, so that is cool that didn't happen.

To answer a few questions, I've never had my Caliber on the dyno or at the track. You'll have to forgive me because both of those are few and far between out here in Wyoming. As far as the various cars I mentioned racing, I'm assuming they were all stock. The only exception might be the 6.0L GTO which may have had some exhaust/intake as well as aftermarket wheels. ALL of the races I had mentioned in my first post were close! And as most of you know, the close races are the most fun and get the most adrenaline flowing!

As for the Z06 Corvette I lost to, I would say it was an '04-'05 model. Should put it at 475 HP rating stock. It was an older guy and after we raced twice, he rolled down the window at the next red light and says, "You did good!" Which I thought was pretty cool. So awesome to see a car like that at full tilt, even if he did walk away.

The Camaro SS I had raced was uphill from a rolling start in first gear. I had no problem with it at all. We raced again from a roll with the Caliber in 3rd gear to well over 100 mph and beat him again. I honestly can't say by how much since he was behind me and with the speeds involved I didn't dare look back. This race was particularly nuts because after we raced we were still slowing down to the speed limit when we went over a slight hill and there was a WY highway patrol parked on the side of the highway. I thought for sure that we would both be busted! My legs felt like jello for a while after that!

The race with the 6.0L GTO was surprisingly close. He had friends in the car and I barely outran him twice from a roll. The driver asked me what mods I had and I have to admit I tried to tell him that my car was stock and he busted me and said he had heard through the grapevine that I had MS1. Seems the car has started to make a name for itself locally.

I'm truly baffled with the 5.0L Mustang GT I raced. I estimate it was a '12 or '13 model; crazy bright green color. First we raced from a rolling start in first gear. Held him off no problem all the way into 3rd gear (60-70 mph). We raced again from a roll in 3rd gear. Still held him off well over 100 mph with the Caliber well into 4th gear! I'm thinking he wasn't the greatest driver...A couple days later he saw my Caliber again in town and caught up to me really fast. I was kinda worried he wanted to race again, but after stopping behind me at a red light he turned off. I think he just wanted to see WTF kinda car put the hurt on his new Mustang.

I'm sure some people will roll their eyes reading this thread. To tell you the truth I'm still sorta baffled at the outcomes with these 400+ HP cars! I'm having mad fun with the car wether I win or lose though. I can only hope that I can build my Omni up to pound on the Caliber someday soon. A 2.5L TIII with a decent turbo/intercooler setup oughta do. But considering how fast the Caliber spools up with the stock Mitsu TD05 20g, I'm reluctant to go too big. Thankfully the Omni weighs about 1000 lbs less.

And sl3196.....I'd be happy to race your G8 GT anytime! The Caliber still only has Mopar MS1, but I gotta say I have more faith in the car after some of these recent kills.

[Vigo]

It's all about the fun, man. I have tons of fun even with the slowest races. Like you say, the closer the better! Hell, i once raced my Insight against a Prius and i really enjoyed that race! People get too worked about whether cars are slow or fast. I say those people are the 'size queens' of the car world. I can have just as much fun in a slow car as a fast one under the right circumstances. Just keep having fun and don't kill anyone and as far as im concerned you're living the dream.. even if it is a Caliber. :p

[85glht]

Close races are the best for sure. Keep it safe and have some fun!

[iTurbo]

Thanks. Most of the races have been on highways just outside of town and late at night. Not exactly safe, but I do try to keep the racing to more reasonable places/times.

When the car was stock, it would push about 12 psi of boost at WOT. With the Mopar Stage I, the throttle is a LOT more responsive (drive-by-wire), but could still be better. I also now see about 16 psi of boost at WOT. I also installed a set of 1-step cooler NGK Iridium spark plugs. Also, I always shut off the factory traction/stability control when racing, otherwise the boost and throttle gets cut pretty agressively when there is wheel spin. I have about 28k miles on the car now with the original Goodyear F1 tires. Doesn't seem to have any problem roasting the tires through 1st and 2nd gear despite being 27" diameter. It will spin a bit into 3rd if the road is too smooth as well. I have an ND Performance TCS system (aka driver mod) ready to install to help with launches.

Lately I've been spending most of my spare time working on old school turbo Mopars, so I haven't gotten around to modding the Caliber at all. I do kinda like the fact that it is still so quiet with the stock exhaust though.

[fleckster]

Out of curiosity, at what altitute are you guys running at in Wyoming? I know there are some places there up quite a bit and the N/A cars will fall off significantly more than a boosted car in the mountains. Just check out the videos of the Mexican turbo Mopar guys! That's why even Ma Mopar offered Turbo IIIs in more cars and offered turbo 2.4Ls in the Stratus and Cirrus sedans in the '90s. This could explain how some of the Camaros, GTOs, and Mustangs, etc. are easier than anticipated. (Not as must explaining the EVO/WRX cars but from what I've seen with them, their drivers usually aren't great and they don't pull as hard once the AWD isn't a factor when rolling or at speed already.

[iTurbo]

Elevation where I am here in Gillette WY is about 4550 ft.

[supercrackerbox]

That's getting up there a bit. I could tell my Daytona was breathing a bit harder when we went to the Black Hills and Devil's Tower this summer. I could only imagine the effect on some NA cars.

[turismolover22]

Does your caliber have vvt? I know that could make up quite a bit compared to the n-srt4

[jonnymopar]

I believe all Caliber SRTs got the 2.4L dual VVT turbo engine.

[thedon809]

All world engines use vvt with cam phasers. Except the new 2.4l tiger shark world engine which uses multiair.

[MILKCARTON]

That's getting up there a bit. I could tell my Daytona was breathing a bit harder when we went to the Black Hills and Devil's Tower this summer. I could only imagine the effect on some NA cars.
elevation has zero effect on turbo cars, ask anyone on here...............

[Reaper1]

elevation has zero effect on turbo cars, ask anyone on here...............

I disagree. Elevation WILL have an effect on turbo cars, just not as much.

[glhs0075]

I'm with Reaper1. I live an hour away from the Rocky Mountains, and I notice a difference when driving at high altitude.

[MILKCARTON]

I'm with Reaper1. I live an hour away from the Rocky Mountains, and I notice a difference when driving at high altitude.

I know......just most people on here will argue that it dont

[iTurbo]

I used to live in Laramie WY, which is at 7200 ft. I noticed a big time decrease in power. At WOT when under full boost, the difference may not have been as much. But just getting there took longer, and I would see less vacuum at idle even compared to Gillette at 4500 ft. The engine was downright sluggish and much less repsonsive at 7200 ft. My Shelby Lancer would only show about 12 in/hg vacuum at idle there and the boost/vac needle slower to respond to throttle changes.

[supercrackerbox]

We're at 1200 feet elevation give or take, and I know we found one spot on our trip that was listed as 6000 feet. I think it was in Custer State Park, or maybe around Jewel Cave. Either way, the Daytona was definately feeling it.

[johnl]

Good read Jeremy. The point about elevation isn't the effect on turbo cars, it's the effect on the NA cars. Long ago, in my GLHT, with four guys with their gear and 4 sets of skis on the roof, we seriously outran a Vette but that was at altitude, near the Big Bear ski area. Poor Chevy was wheezing.

[iTurbo]

Well it happened again! Beat another newer Mustang GT (2011-2014?) in the Caliber. This time it was from a dig. I had just left my apartment when a blacked-out GT turned out the McDonalds drive-thru and followed me out of town. I could see him getting on the throttle in my rear-view mirror in town, so I decided to see if he would follow on the highway going out. Sure enough he does and attempted a flyby in the other lane which I promptly put an end to. About a 1/2 mile up the road we get a red light together. I'm thinking, "Oh ---- I am toast now"!

I pulled up to the light just behind him and he actually rolled back so we were lined up and started revving a little. I shut the traction control off, and just tried as hard as I could not to spin. It must have worked because he never even got a fender on me. By the time I got to 3rd gear I was pulling away good enough that he gave up and didn't try again.

I'm just telling it like it happened. I don't know if the guy just couldn't drive or what and I know it doesn't make much sense. :shrug: The Mustang sure sounded good though!

[jackerman]

That is awesome, though the coyote is awesome i have seen people running mid 13s mostly 5spd so im not shocked at all. I wish i could say i have had the same luck. Im going low 13s and i get destroyed by all those but i havent lost to a honda yet and 2 were turbo. Good kills

[ATaylorRacing]

Pretty sure you haven't met this porky thing...I'm not like most Camaro owners...no mullet!

http://www.indycarz.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23562&d=1423845461

http://www.indycarz.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23561&d=1423845430

[kuzman83]

I also own an 08 CSRT and it is an absolute blast. If I may offer a bit of advice, go with the Real Tune MS1K computer flash (www.realtune.com). It absolutely transformed my car into a totally different ride. I did a lot of reading up on it before I decided to have it done and I didn't quite believe the stories guys were telling about how much different the car was but they are true. Other supporting mods on my car are AGP front mount, full 3" exhaust with catless dp, k&n drop in, AGP adjustable wga, hallman MBC and a mopar blue plate bov noise maker.

As it sits now my car will fry the front tires from a third gear roll at 65mph with TC off. Not only does the flash give you more power, but it sets the "nanny" limit for torque production way higher. The stock computer and MS1 will start pulling throttle and timing if it feels like you are making too much power. This makes other mods useless because the computer won't ever let you see the full potential of the mod. Throttle response is much much much better, traction control is much less invasive, boost is nearly instant. It makes the car in stock form feel like a slug. If you have the scratch laying around to buy that computer I HIGHLY recommend it. I couldn't be happier with mine.

Congrats on the street action too btw, I believe every bit of it. :thumb:

[supercrackerbox]

How did the MS1K affect your fuel mileage? Which version did you get?

[kuzman83]

Fuel mileage did go up slightly, I get right around 33-34 highway between 65-70mph. I got version 3.

[cordes]

Fuel mileage did go up slightly, I get right around 33-34 highway between 65-70mph. I got version 3.

I NEED one of these cars!

[thedon809]

That's great mpg. My 2.4l 5 speed patriot gets about 28-30 at those speeds. Maybe when I pay this thing off I can find a wrecked csrt4 and turbo it. Idk how strong the awd system is though.

[iTurbo]

I just checked MPG in my CSRT last weekend on a round trip between Cheyenne and Denver (~200 miles). I got 34 MPG which surprised me because traffic was pretty heavy as I got near downtown on I-25. I checked it by filling up at Cheyenne, and then refilling the tank at the same pump in Cheyenne when I got back and divided the miles by gallons used.

Car only has Mopar MS1 right now and has every option so I imagine it's on the heavy side of CSRTs.

[supercrackerbox]

Damn, I would love to get that kind of mileage out of mine. I actually have an MS1 sitting on my desk right now, I just need to find a dealer that can install it.

[iTurbo]

I have gotten that kind of mileage quite a few times on the highway, but the city MPG really drops on mine. City MPG on mine is more like 21-24 MPG and somewhat worse in colder weather.

You're going to like the MS1; big difference! Probably the best part is the drive-by-wire is remapped so the throttle response is a lot better. The WOT boost went up from about 10-12 psi to a solid 16 psi. MPGs seemed to go up a little too.

I'm not sure when I'll be installing any more upgrades because I'm pretty darn happy with the car right now as it is and I have a lot of older 2.2/2.5 stuff to do anyway.

[supercrackerbox]

My commute to work is 100 miles round trip each day, all interstate ranging from 60 to 75mph. I have hit as high as 33 according to the little readout, but averaging for the full tank I'm getting about 26-27.