groove in crank seal surfaces

[going4speed]

I am pulling apart the non common block motor out of the glhs.

I have noticed on the main and front seal surfaces the seal has cut a groove all the way round the sealing surface.

Does this mean the crank is toasted? Can this be fixed?

[shadow88]

The repair is called a speedy sleeve. http://www.skf.com/group/products/seals/industrial-seals/power-transmission-seals/wear-sleeves/skf-speedi-sleeve/index.html

[turismolover22]

Ive heard of cranks being spray welded and then reground down to oe or a specific undersize, but that was for a bearing journal, and for a gsx-r crank. Could always find someone that can do it. Though if you need a crany you may as well just pick one up. I have one you can have.

[135sohc]

speedy sleeve or take to a machine shop and see if they can put a lite polish on it.

[going4speed]

seems the sleeve idea is the jam! Will have to see what they charge for that. I know I can get a rebuilt crank with bearings for 179..might be the way to go.

[turbovanman²]

Ive heard of cranks being spray welded and then reground down to oe or a specific undersize, but that was for a bearing journal, and for a gsx-r crank. Could always find someone that can do it. Though if you need a crany you may as well just pick one up. I have one you can have.

By the time you spend that kind of money, you could have found another one or installed speedi-sleeves.

Also, most seals move the sealing lip so it doesn't sit on the stock wear mark, as they know this happens.

[looneytuner]

I don't know what spray welding is, but I know a cousin into stock cars 50 years ago welded up a crank and turned it for me. I doubt they had expensive toys back then. The crank is still good.

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I don't know what spray welding is, but I know a cousin into stock cars 50 years ago welded up a crank and turned it for me. I doubt they had expensive toys back then. The crank is still good.

I heard the same bit about chewed up lawnmower spindles a couple years ago. Some friends welded up the spindles, took out the temper the old fashioned way, returned them, and re-tempered them.

This is just the mumbling of a 70 year old codger.

[turismolover22]

Im not sure what the spray welding process is either. Id imagine its almost like painting metal onto a part, shooting superfine super hot pieces of molten metal at something to "layer" the meta on as it fuses to the part. Time for youtube and google,

[trannybuster]

Have a machine shop dust that end off....it isnt that deep.

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Also you can install the seal a smidge deeper...

[Warren Stramer]

Have a machine shop dust that end off....it isnt that deep.

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Also you can install the seal a smidge deeper...

This.....see above..

Any good crank grinder can remove the seal groove (rear seal). I have it done all the time. The diameter of the seal journal is not that critical, and are very tight from the factory. I have intentionally had .030 removed just to free up a little drag.
Just polish the front seal groove with 600 grit sand paper and you will be fine, Never had one leak doing this.

[shadow88]

This.....see above..

Any good crank grinder can remove the seal groove (rear seal). I have it done all the time. The diameter of the seal journal is not that critical, and are very tight from the factory. I have intentionally had .030 removed just to free up a little drag.
Just polish the front seal groove with 600 grit sand paper and you will be fine, Never had one leak doing this.

You have a rear main seal on a 2.2L that doesn't leak?!?! You are some kind of God! :clap::hail:

[Shadow]

You have a rear main seal on a 2.2L that doesn't leak?!?! You are some kind of God! :clap::hail:

Every after market sealed 2.2/2.5 I've seen leaks at the rear main. Every Mopar sealed 2.2/2.5 mtr we've built doesn't. You do the math...............

[turbovanman²]

Every after market sealed 2.2/2.5 I've seen leaks at the rear main. Every Mopar sealed 2.2/2.5 mtr we've built doesn't. You do the math...............

LOL, I think we've talked about this before, never had a rear main seal leak using any aftermarket unit, and that's even reusing them, :faint: :p

[Shadow]

LOL, I think we've talked about this before, never had a rear main seal leak using any aftermarket unit, and that's even reusing them, :faint: :p

I think we're talking about mtrs that last for at least a couple years here...............:p

[turbovanman²]

I think we're talking about mtrs that last for at least a couple years here...............:p

Even if they don't last, they have massive blowby and I still reuse the seal, :p

[Shadow]

Even if they don't last, they have massive blowby and I still reuse the seal, :p

Like I'm going to trust what You say vs my own experience! lol :p

[turbovanman²]

Like I'm going to trust what You say vs my own experience! lol :p

Trust whomever you want, my rear seals don't leak, makes no difference to me if you believe me or not, :p

[Shadow]

.....:p

[going4speed]

wow got snippy in here. Yes I know its all fun... :thumb:

So where does one buy a mopar rear main seal? Are they NS1.

[GLHNSLHT2]

direct at Mopar. +1 to the Mopar unit being a superior piece.

[shadow88]

I've always used mopar parts when I worked at a dealership and noticed most rear mains seep a little oil. Never tried an aftermarket seal and I'm surprised Warren has removed 0.030" and not had any trouble with leaks.

[Shadow]

I've always used mopar parts when I worked at a dealership and noticed most rear mains seep a little oil. Never tried an aftermarket seal and I'm surprised Warren has removed 0.030" and not had any trouble with leaks.

Most do Not do regular oil changes Or understand the importance on how regularly you need to change oil and why. Get a little to much metalic build in the oil and picture that rubbing against the seals like a fine abrasive and you can guess whats going to happen next ;)

Add to this how tight that seal is (Warren's info) and once you've trapped enough debris in there it's only a matter of time and your going to need a knew seal. Maintenance people, it's a beautifull thing!

In all fairness to Simon, I haven't used an A/M seal in over 15 years, maybe they got better? Either way, I Don't try to fix things that aren't broken...........

Mopar used this seal on a ton of applications AFAIK, so it should be available for a long long time :)

[trannybuster]

I've always used mopar parts when I worked at a dealership and noticed most rear mains seep a little oil. Never tried an aftermarket seal and I'm surprised Warren has removed 0.030" and not had any trouble with leaks.

Whats wrong with .030, thats only .015 a side, and he said as much as, that groove is probably only .010 deep.

[turbovanman²]

Most do Not do regular oil changes Or understand the importance on how regularly you need to change oil and why. Get a little to much metalic build in the oil and picture that rubbing against the seals like a fine abrasive and you can guess whats going to happen next ;)

Add to this how tight that seal is (Warren's info) and once you've trapped enough debris in there it's only a matter of time and your going to need a knew seal. Maintenance people, it's a beautifull thing!

In all fairness to Simon, I haven't used an A/M seal in over 15 years, maybe they got better? Either way, I Don't try to fix things that aren't broken...........

Mopar used this seal on a ton of applications AFAIK, so it should be available for a long long time :)

Very true, and let us not forget, some company's will make the OEM seal.

Also true on availibility, I don't see it "drying" up anytime soon, :drum:

[135sohc]

Last oem seal I had said SKF in little tiny letters...

[Shadow]

Last oem seal I had said SKF in little tiny letters...

I do seem to remember noticing that After the design slightly changed. The older style was completly black and had ribs to seal the side where it presses into the AL seal housing. (this is the style that is still in the Charger) The newer style now has 1/2 rubber (flat, not ribed) and 1/2 open steel.

Now back in the day, All the A/M seals I saw had No rubber where it meets the housing, only painted steel. (looked like a wheel bearing seal) and the seal material was brown to browny orange. Those were the ones that All failed within 3 months to a year after install on fresh motors.

[going4speed]

3 month life of a main seal does not sound like a good time.

I am thinking I will sleeve the main side of the crank. Mopar seal it and call it a day. I will ask the machine shop to skim the front seal and use a mopar seal there if that one is still available. The good thing with the front seal is its a ton easier to replace. Do they make sleeves for the front of the crank? I cant find one.

[Shadow]

3 month life of a main seal does not sound like a good time.

I am thinking I will sleeve the main side of the crank. Mopar seal it and call it a day. I will ask the machine shop to skim the front seal and use a mopar seal there if that one is still available. The good thing with the front seal is its a ton easier to replace. Do they make sleeves for the front of the crank? I cant find one.

Not telling you what to do here, but Warren is a tactician when it comes to these motors and if he says you can clean up that groove and have Zero problems running the seal, then I would take it to the bank! I've always noticed how tight those seals go on and have felt the drag, but never thought of doing anything about it. (I though it was why they sealed so well)

On the other hand, if you really want to run a sleeve................

[trannybuster]

^^Exactly, then you dont have to worry about some sleeve spinning or not working right...hello monkey wrench!

[4 l-bodies]

Here is my .02 cents on this. I don't have much problem with rear mains leaking either, whether it's OEM or aftermarket. I think many problems stem from tearing up the machined surface on the alumium adapter. People using large screwdrivers, bearing pullers, etc and gouging the machined surface of either the housing or heaven forbid, the crank. Then not using anaerobic sealant when installing them either.
It's funny how everyone seems to suggest OEM Mopar. I know for a fact these came from several vendors throughout the years. SKG, CR, Victor Reinz, National, NOK, etc. have all been used by Mopar at one time or another for rear main seals. Can't go by color of the seal either. Green, black, orange, brown,.
Here is an example, Currently I have 5 new in box rear mains. 4 in victor Reinz packaging. Of those, one made in Taiwan, two made by National made in Mexico. the forth made by CR made in USA. All carry same part # JV524. All appear to be good quality, and I would not hesitate to use them. One OEM Mopar. Appears to be made by CR. This one has been sitting around for many years in my gasket box.
Todd

[Shadow]

Every Mopar rear main I have Ever used has been black. If you know what man. the OEM seal is, then go ahead and get it from them, not saying don't. I stick with Mopar seals so I don't have to wonder what my A/M seller is going to bring in and by the failure rate of them very early in my 2.2/2.5 days.

Also, it's way more convenient for me and the diff in cost is negligable.

[trannybuster]

Mopar isnt in the seal making buisness...and whoever can meet the quality needed they get to make it.

[going4speed]

Man still have not done anything with the motor. Too dang hot lately. Thanks for all the chat guys....its helping...keep it coming.;)

[going4speed]

Motors back from the rebuilder. They said pretty much the same thing as this thread. They dont like the sleeves they just go with the main seal as is and let 'r rip.

[4 l-bodies]

Motors back from the rebuilder. They said pretty much the same thing as this thread. They dont like the sleeves they just go with the main seal as is and let 'r rip.
I hope someone polished the machined surface like Craig, Warren, and Trannybuster suggested. All else fails you can intentionally set the front and rear seal in their housings at various depths up to around 1/8" when you press them in place. That is enough to get seal to ride in new place on crankshaft.
Todd

[going4speed]

The crank was polished on all journals and ends for the seals. They also said if I get a seal and dont like where it lines up that I could use the piston ring they provided to shim out the seal to ride that thickness away from the original seal location as you stated.

[going4speed]

The manual calls out for bearing and stud sealer. I thought that anaerobic from mopar would be plenty good.

Thoughts?

[johnl]

How about shimming the seal out a bit?

[135sohc]

The manual calls out for bearing and stud sealer. I thought that anaerobic from mopar would be plenty good.

Thoughts?

Anerobic is fine.

[going4speed]

How about shimming the seal out a bit?


In regard to anaerobic? I dont see the connection. The main will be shimmed but will be installed per the manual with bearing and stud sealer. The other four seals will be installed with mopar anaerobic.

[Reaper1]

Anybody had experience with the available Teflon rear main seals? I have used 1 on the engine I built for my van many years ago. That engine didn't get that much run time due to the electrical problem that killed the van after I rebuilt the tranny. I never had a leaking issue at all, but I remember it being a B*TCH to install! You have to install them dry with the special install tool that comes with them. If you don't get it just right it won't go on.

[going4speed]

I just used a national from Cindy. Easy enough to install with the engine on the stand so that was good. What is the hubub about the teflon? Supposed to last longer I guess?

[Reaper1]

Teflon seals are supposed to have less friction, supposed to last longer, they are impervious to all engine fluids (save for battery acid), and they don't use a labyrinth type sealing method because they don't need lubrication so they are supposed to be more "leak proof".

I did some research on them a couple of months ago and supposedly they are used extensively in large semis due to the above attributes.