Get this megasquirt Junkyard running

[Ondonti]

Ever since I corrupted my ecu with battery dieing while burning...melted the oldschool coil driver (no protection on the oldschool one), replaced with BIP373...the car runs like this.

I just drained the tank of 3 year old E70, replaced 1 dead inline walbro (seal failed, shorted out), flushed system and changed to Gasoline...though I am sure at the moment I am writing that I forgot to change the required fuel.

This is the same thing it did on 3 year old E70 after the MS board repairs. BTW my zeitronix boost guage and o2 are not funtioning but EGT still works. Have not looked into that but I am grumpy.
It had absolutely zero response to throttle input except flood clear mode when it floods.

Video on Photobucket.
http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Junkyard%20Version%202/Sitting%20and%20Waiting%20for%20the%20New%20Turbo% 20Setup/SANY2539-1.mp4.html

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Junkyard%20Version%202/Sitting%20and%20Waiting%20for%20the%20New%20Turbo% 20Setup/th_SANY2539-1.jpg (http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Junkyard%20Version%202/Sitting%20and%20Waiting%20for%20the%20New%20Turbo% 20Setup/SANY2539-1.mp4)

[Unacceptable]

Fuel pressure ok? Sounds like the pump isn't staying on after starting or something along those lines. Get a friend to tow you, put it in gear with the ignition on. It'll be forced to "run" and you'll be able to do some datalogging. Tow it like that for a few miles. Maybe you'll spot the problem in the datalogs.

[bakes]

sound like the Asd relay is not saying power up after the cranking is done can you put a test lamp on the coil +

[iTurbo]

It appears to me that the ASD relay is energizing to prime the fuel system, but is not staying 'on' for the car to run. Perhaps a distributor sync problem? I imagine you've already looked into this though.

[Ondonti]

sound like the Asd relay is not saying power up after the cranking is done can you put a test lamp on the coil +


It appears to me that the ASD relay is energizing to prime the fuel system, but is not staying 'on' for the car to run. Perhaps a distributor sync problem? I imagine you've already looked into this though.

Well there is no ASD relay, just always on power, and key on power. The car is completely rewired, for better or for worse.

Now, I was noticing that when I tried to use a timing light days ago with the fuel system off to check timing, I would get a few flashes then nothing, or no flashes at all. I was wanting to blame my timing light so I removed a spark plug to get a visual of spark and it was not lighting off every time and I was thinking that was just because I didn't have it grounded well enough (moving around on valve cover). I didn't look very closely. I was trying to confirm that timing was remotely close. I don't know what would cause losing synch like that with megasquirt when it obviously wants to fire up. It actually gets worse as I keep going, probably from flooding. I changed the coil driver and that is the only hardware difference. Melted the old one and this one is a little different. I should probably remove the cover and see if it is getting hot.

Distributor sync can also be a problem because I don't think the wiring is in great condition. I just stole these heads from my daily 2 years ago and I remember having issues.
I can't connect my laptop right now so I have been doing everything with bluetooth on my phone and its all new to me. Need to buy a new serial adapter cable.

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I am trying to research if its the 330 ohm resistor that comes with the BIP373 kit. I don't know if I installed that so I have to look. I don't see the reasoning behind why it exists but something about MSI or MSII extra (and not the normal versions). Its very vague and the install instructions even skip the 330 ohm resistor on single coil installation.....even though they say its needed for MS Extra.
If I take the top off I can feel it the driver is getting hot and a datalog would show if fuel is still being injected (which would mean I am still synching up).

- - - Updated - - -

Found the original packaging from my BIP373 and it has the 330 ohm resistor and the dead vb921 inside. Reading now, MS extra requires the 330 ohm resistor. I was assuming this BIP373 was a drop in replacement. The instructions don't say to use one for a single coil on ms2 extra.

[Shadow24]

A few suggestions I have are:

1) get a tuning cable so you can datalog and change settings
2) write down all your current specs, re-flash to the latest stable MS2 firmware (3.2.4 or 3.2.5 IIRC) and re-enter, adjusting for E10 vs E70 (probably overfuelling with E70 settings)
3) If you are concerned about synch issues, check the tooth logger function, that will show your tach input signal and whether or not you are getting synch issues from gaps or bad signal
4) If you are still having issues or have questions, the MSextra forums are really helpful. Matt Cramer (DIY), Ken (muythaibxr), Jean, and James are all very active and incredibly knowledgeable on the MS

oh, and assume NOTHING :) double checking EVERYThING and starting from square 1 can help find an elusive issue. trust me, i know...

[Irocelectric93]

What is your trigger angle again? I assume this is the same or similar tune to what it actually ran on in the past correct? I know when i was getting mine to start on MS mine actually acted very similar to what yours is doing. I had to continue to mess with my trigger angle and i think eventually i ended up scrapping the base tune and starting over. I know i originally had a tune that was very close to what Ryan was running at the time that i setup myself and the car wouldn't start right and then i ended up just putting Ryans tune in and it ran....had same parameters and everything so def getting stable firmware helps. I don't remember what firmware i was running at the time. Sounds like to don't have a way to see what your AFR's are at the moment either which may or may not help if you can get it running for at least a few seconds.

[Sundance 6g72]

for the record, I am running required fuel settings used for gasoline 93. When I changed to e85, I simply added 20-30% to my VE table and tuned from there. Has worked very well. Some people worry that this makes your VE table inaccurate but honestly, its a fuel map, not true volumetric efficiency numbers.. Just a value that is changed to add or remove fuel. so if your map is set for e85 and nothing has been changed, pull 20% from the entire map and go from there (or whatever the difference should be between e70 and gas) Brent wont spend the $37 for the cable at radioshack :P When megasquirt keys on to the run position, the pump primes for a moment and then shuts off, the coil does the same. You cannot check to see if it is on unless you have a test light or similar tool hooked up the very moment you key on.

[blk86trbo]

Do you still employ a MAP sensor with megasquirt? Once had a turbovan with the same symptoms...unplugging the MAP put it in limp in mode, but at least it would continue running.

[Shadow24]

Do you still employ a MAP sensor with megasquirt? Once had a turbovan with the same symptoms...unplugging the MAP put it in limp in mode, but at least it would continue running.
not in a normally MAP based megasquirt install, there isn't that sort of "limp home" for the MAP sensor. MAP is necessary unless running a completely different setup (alpha-n, ITB, MAF etc.)

Starting over from the beginning is probably the best bet at this point IMHO. I've started over on my tune multiple times to get where I'm at now.

[Ondonti]

Hey ya'll, I am most concerned about the 330 ohm resistor that I left out of my install but that the instructions from DIY conflict on installing or not.

Previously I had set base timing with OEM computer to 12 degrees. Then I used no offset + falling edge and the car started right up. Required fuel is taken care of. Since the motor does not react at all to throttle input and the weird timing light issues i was having, I think my BIP373 is freaking out. Spark duration is 2.0ms which was fine on the old VB921. Joe is using 0.6 on his. I am not sure why the BIP373 "maybe" (per conflicting installation instructions) is in need of a 330 ohm resistor when running certain firmwares but people running no resistor or the wrong one have problems.

Required fueling is how I stick to messing with different ethanol contents. I know the stoich differences so its pretty easy. Of course 14.7 is probably not stoich for E10 :P
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BTW when diagnosing my Zeitronix MAP sensor not working i had unplugged the WBo2 sensor so I could move things around easier. It seems to be functioning now :P :P :P I fired it and it reacted unlike before :P
Woot, and uninstalled driver for my serial to USB and reinstalled and its working again, at least with tuner studio. Tried to connect with zeitronix and its a no go but the phone cord looks a bit beat up and has a broken clip.

Just need to open up the box next and check out the coil driver.

- - - Updated - - -

The black wire is the wire that needs the 330 ohm resistor. It was wired up for the oldschool VB921. The only thing I have soldered on here is the flatshift/2 step circuit on the right and replacing the BIP373. Ghetto white wires came with the unit when I mistakenly bought an ebay unit.

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Megasquirt/Megasquirt%20II%20Extra%20Circuits/SANY2540.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Megasquirt/Megasquirt%20II%20Extra%20Circuits/SANY2540.jpg.html)

[Sundance 6g72]

Ive never found a good explanation as to what max spark duration is.. .6 has always worked well for me, cant remember my reasoning or who I copied that from

[Ondonti]

330 ohm resistor in. Same deal.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Megasquirt/Megasquirt%20II%20Extra%20Circuits/SANY2541.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Megasquirt/Megasquirt%20II%20Extra%20Circuits/SANY2541.jpg.html)

- - - Updated - - -

I need a new wire. This wire was a problem when it was on my Spirit and I had problems after having taken off the distributor in the past. I don't really blame this but I broke it in a new place when looking at it. I don't see these for sale on Rock auto, but I see everything else.

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Junkyard%20Version%202/Sitting%20and%20Waiting%20for%20the%20New%20Turbo% 20Setup/SANY2548.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Junkyard%20Version%202/Sitting%20and%20Waiting%20for%20the%20New%20Turbo% 20Setup/SANY2548.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Junkyard%20Version%202/Sitting%20and%20Waiting%20for%20the%20New%20Turbo% 20Setup/SANY2549.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Junkyard%20Version%202/Sitting%20and%20Waiting%20for%20the%20New%20Turbo% 20Setup/SANY2549.jpg.html)

[Shadow24]

Where do you have your IGBTIN and IGBTOUT jumpered to? Also, have you started a thread on the MSextra forum?

[Ondonti]

Set up like this
"The only change is to enable the IGBT High Current Ignition Coil Driver Circuit to directly drive the coil. (If you're buying an assembled unit, we'll gladly do this for you for just a few bucks, shoot us an email)

Remove the jumper from JS10 to IGN (on a V3.0 board) or from JS10 to the center hole of Q16 (V3.57) Some MegaSquirts may not have this jumper installed.
Jumper IGBTIN to JS10
Jumper IGBTOUT to IGN (on a V3.0 board)
If Q16 is not fitted, install a BIP373 in the Q16 slot using a mica insulator."

It was running previously. Only changes are frying the VB921 coil driver with a corrupted tune and having to replace that with a BIP373. Unknown if anything else got fried.

The broken open wire above is the low data rate signal wire so for now I am fixing that up and will try my best to wrap that shielding wire back. Grumpy that they sell everything for our distributors except that wire. I had problems with this distributor wire when it was on my Spirit and I could not get consistent spark. Even the connector has been smashed and then glued back together. I have to make sure that is good before digging any farther.
No thread on MSExtra. I don't even know which sites are active and which are not. They don't do a good job of dating things or correcting errors from the past. People point out errors and you get stuck looking up forum posts to see why instructions still make no sense years later.

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Wire fixed up. Same issue. Now I am more prepared to go back to square one without looking stupid. I think I need to also check if you timing light is working properly on a happy car.

[Shadow24]

Have you swapped with a known good distributor?

[Ondonti]

Have you swapped with a known good distributor?
I will add that to my list of things I need to check before searching too deep. Really hard to say what still works on a car after sitting 3 years and even the transmission locked up from corrosion and the entire car did suffer a lot of corrosion for the short period it sat under a tarp when the rear window was missing. What I can say is that 3 year old E70 didn't seem like a problem no matter how much water was in it.

- - - Updated - - -

Tested my timing light on a good car. Works fine.

Pulled the spark plugs to take the load off the starter so I can beat on it and not have it heat up.

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Found something interesting, and datalogged it with my phone since I wanted to test that out.

Fixed timing to 0 degrees. Offset 0 degrees. Ignition timing seems to just be stuck at 1 degree no matter what according to MS but the timing light is reading something like 18 based on me removing to try to repair its wires.
====

So the fuel injectors and everything spark off great and it all seems happy...yet maybe the spark is happening too much and could be more consistent. It sparks a lot lot lot. When I lie to the computer and tell it that 100 rpms is my switchover point to running (since the starter was turning around 200 rpms) so it uses "running" tables (wanted to get an accurate check of my base timing) and........................

Injectors all of a sudden are not be commanded to open and my spark plug returns to a slow methodical spark. Set the cranking rpm back to 300 and the spark plugs go crazy and injectors are commanded to open.

I datalogged both situations so I need to figure out how to get them here.

- - - Updated - - -

Have datalogs converted to .MSL so they can be viewed on megalog viewer but not sure where I should host them.

[Ondonti]

MSextra thread. No uploads yet.

[Sundance 6g72]

so megasquirt is commanding 0*, but is actually trying to run 1* and your light sees 18*? thats a trigger offset problem, just needs to be changed. you can also just turn your dizzy until it matches up with 0/1*. The trigger offset setting is the easiest way. I still dont know why your injectors are turning off after you pass the cranking rpm setting.

[Ondonti]

so megasquirt is commanding 0*, but is actually trying to run 1* and your light sees 18*? thats a trigger offset problem, just needs to be changed. you can also just turn your dizzy until it matches up with 0/1*. The trigger offset setting is the easiest way. I still dont know why your injectors are turning off after you pass the cranking rpm setting.
I was doing all that while some steaks were cooking so I didn't try to bring the base timing down. I was just verifying "its remotely close" :P THere is some cold advance added in there so I probably need to turn that off. It says 5.5 degrees cold advance but maybe that is ignored in fixed timing mode and simply what the computer would add if it was allowed to.

I thought it was weird that I commanded 0 degrees in my fixed timing and it ran 1 degree. When it was set at 12 degrees fixed it was commanding 13 degrees.

For anyone else interested, there are files uploaded on MSextra. Megalog viewer is free for the lite version.

[Sundance 6g72]

well first try and get MS to command 10 and have the light see 10, even if you have to set it to 9* fixed. That should be a good starting point

[Reaper1]

I was doing all that while some steaks were cooking so I didn't try to bring the base timing down. I was just verifying "its remotely close" :P THere is some cold advance added in there so I probably need to turn that off. It says 5.5 degrees cold advance but maybe that is ignored in fixed timing mode and simply what the computer would add if it was allowed to.

I thought it was weird that I commanded 0 degrees in my fixed timing and it ran 1 degree. When it was set at 12 degrees fixed it was commanding 13 degrees.

For anyone else interested, there are files uploaded on MSextra. Megalog viewer is free for the lite version.

I understand what you are saying with fixed at "0" and running "1".

With the 12* part...do you mean that you fixed the timing at 12 and it actually showed 13 with the timing light (meaning 1* advanced) when cranking, or that it brought the timing back to 1* while cranking with the timing light?

[Ondonti]

I understand what you are saying with fixed at "0" and running "1".

With the 12* part...do you mean that you fixed the timing at 12 and it actually showed 13 with the timing light (meaning 1* advanced) when cranking, or that it brought the timing back to 1* while cranking with the timing light?

Both of those were fixed electronic timing per MS. Seems like it was adding 1 degree to whatever I "set" and I don't know what accounts for that.
I don't even know if the timing light changed what it said when I changed the set timing. I was in a rush and fooling around that night before dinner. Have to get back out there bit car time is short.

[Sundance 6g72]

I thought the light was showing 18*..... when MS was set to 0 but the log showed 1. im lost. I dont even know how you would go about seeing 18* with just the light lol.

[Ondonti]

I thought the light was showing 18*..... when MS was set to 0 but the log showed 1. im lost. I dont even know how you would go about seeing 18* with just the light lol.
I was paying more attention to the rapidity of flashing during those starting tests then where the timing light was hitting when I changed fixed timing tables.

In other news, reflashed my corrupted firmware to 3.2.5 and she starts up and runs/revs. Timing must be off still because it wanted to backfire at first.

[Shadow24]

Good news there. best bet there is to use the trigger offset adjustment and fixed timing settings to get to 0* and let your timing table do the rest. just my $.02

[Sundance 6g72]

yeah i dont like the idea of adding your base timing to the entire table, rather I would just like to set the each value and know that that is what the timing will be.

[87turbodance]

I was never able to get a trigger angle early enough with the stock distributor to get my desired max of 45 total timing. That's the main reason I dumped the distributor and went wasted spark with a home made crank sensor.

Good to see that a firmware flash fixed your issue.

Also, you're better off to think of total timing with MS and for get the base timing + additional timing bs. MS will display the total timing based off you setting the trigger angle (physical trigger angle) to a certain number of crank degrees btdc and then then tell Ms what that number is in the trigger angle field. Then fine tune it with a timing light while slightly turning your distributor. Ideal trigger angle is 60-90 degrees before tdc. I could never get this so I said piss on it and deleted the distributor,