89, 3.0 valve train

[BIGBRUDDA]

Hey guyz: Did the 89 3.0 still have the valve guide problem ? Or was it fixed by then?

[Ondonti]

That is the first year in cars and 3rd year in vans. If it has not failed by now its probably not going to fail though... Seals are not a big deal to change, just really annoying since most valve spring compressors don't seem to work well on a 3.0 head.

[turbovanman²]

I thought it was around 91 they started fixing them. I've seen plenty of 88-92's even, puffing blue smoke.

[c2xejk]

That is the first year in cars and 3rd year in vans. If it has not failed by now its probably not going to fail though... Seals are not a big deal to change, just really annoying since most valve spring compressors don't seem to work well on a 3.0 head.

The big problem is not changing the seal, but the fact that the source of the problem is likely a dropping exhaust guide. (ie. the head needs to be pulled to fix the problem.)

[Force Fed Mopar]

They didn't update the guides until mid-late nineties IIRC.

[Ondonti]

The big problem is not changing the seal, but the fact that the source of the problem is likely a dropping exhaust guide. (ie. the head needs to be pulled to fix the problem.)

Maybe the reason. I would not say likely 20 years later. Those tended to start dropping only a few years after being put into use. Its more likely then not that most cars from that era on the road have had to be fixed and if they didn't fail, they probably won't. Just like I have seen people claim TIII heads need the OEM steel freeze plugs removed to avoid cracking and in reality, it is not always the case. If it hasn't cracked at this point (assuming it has a lot of miles and has been beaten on), it won't.
25 year old valve seals might actually need replacing. If you are replacing them and find a dropped valve guide...that sucks. The seals I had in a 1992 head that failed from physical contact were "crispy" hard but I guess they were still working until they got smashed.

I don't really consider removing the heads much worse then the VSS job with heads on the engine. Not fun for an 8v guy used to super simple head install but its not bad. My view is probably skewed cause I throw away redundant brackets, slot the power steering holes and cut the end of the A/C bracket in half so the compressor can stay on the motor and the engine brackets can come off.

[BIGBRUDDA]

OK Ondonti, expound on that last paragraph please.

[Sundance 6g72]

Its a big pain in the butt to change valve stem seals with the heads on the motor. Mine as well do a headgasket job while you are in there. My 1993 guides were fine but I replaced them with my vss anyways. My vss had failed, leaving clouds of smoke at stop lights and on slight throttle taps after sitting idle for a few minutes.

[c2xejk]

OK Ondonti, expound on that last paragraph please.

If you search some of Ondonti's prior posts in the 3L section, you should find his list of mod's that make's doing a timing belt (required to R&R the heads) MUCH easier.

Slotting the adapter plates bolts so you don't have to fiddle with trying to get the bolt threads to start. (pain because of the pump pulley.)
You can cut the AC bracket so the timing belt can be R&R'd without unbolting the AC compressor (to get at the other AC bracket bolts...

Ed Kelly - www.kmperformance.com

[Ondonti]

If you search some of Ondonti's prior posts in the 3L section, you should find his list of mod's that make's doing a timing belt (required to R&R the heads) MUCH easier.

Slotting the adapter plates bolts so you don't have to fiddle with trying to get the bolt threads to start. (pain because of the pump pulley.)
You can cut the AC bracket so the timing belt can be R&R'd without unbolting the AC compressor (to get at the other AC bracket bolts...

Ed Kelly - www.kmperformance.com

I don't know how people with big hands do the PS pump bolts or some other things. Real pain in the butt. On my Wife's car I didn't even remove the A/C bracket to cut it, I cut it in the car. Saved me a lot of time and hassle. Adapter needs slots + leaving the bolts half threaded in the pump and sliding it back in. Worst you have to do is make sure the washers stay up against the head so you can slide it in. Then you just have to hold it in place with one hand while tightening. Gear wrenches make this easier. That for me is physically challenging but a life saver.

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I can't find the pictures on my photobucket but I know i have posted them before. Here is a shot where you can see a modified a/c bracket but you can't see the leftover piece that you use as a spacer on the adapter plate.

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/IMG_7264.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/IMG_7264.jpg.html)

- - - Updated - - -

I guess I never uploaded these on the thread where I was fixing up my wife's 94 Spirit.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/3L%20Technical/3L%20Improvements/SANY1597.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/3L%20Technical/3L%20Improvements/SANY1597.jpg.html)
See how the adapter plate can now be removed without removing the a/c bracket. These 3 holes are required to hold the a/c idler pulley bracket in place so you need to retain that small piece as a spacer.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/3L%20Technical/3L%20Improvements/SANY1600.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/3L%20Technical/3L%20Improvements/SANY1600.jpg.html)