1994 Lebaron Rear Disc Question...

[Daytana]

So I finally got everything to convert my lebaron to 10" rear solid discs, I have everything just about installed. Problem is I noticed the studs are in the rotors and it looked like 1 piece so I thought that I could just buy the rotors new and have all those goodies so I left the rotors at the yard (while grabbing everything else possible) since they were rusty beyond turning. So I am browsing Advance Auto Parts now and notice all they have listed is just the rotor; tell me that you can buy the whole rotors with the studs (and hub area where the wheel bearing seats at) included or am I going to have to go back and chase those rusty rotors from the yard to get those pieces and then swap those to the new rotors? :banghead:

[Reaper1]

The hub is separate from the rotors and/or the drums. More than likely you took your hubs off with the drums because you couldn't get them off. To separate the two you need some sort of rust penetrant and a BMFH. Soak the center of the hub where it goes through the center of the drum and around each of the studs. Then use judicious if not excessive force with the hammer on the drum to knock the hub loose. I've actually had to break the drums off before.

The hubs are interchangeable between disc and drum systems.

HTH.

[Daytana]

The hub is separate from the rotors and/or the drums. More than likely you took your hubs off with the drums because you couldn't get them off. To separate the two you need some sort of rust penetrant and a BMFH. Soak the center of the hub where it goes through the center of the drum and around each of the studs. Then use judicious if not excessive force with the hammer on the drum to knock the hub loose. I've actually had to break the drums off before.

The hubs are interchangeable between disc and drum systems.

HTH.

Hehe that is exactly what I did (take the hubs off with the drums). We took a Snap-On deadblow hammer and a piece of wood and the hubs came right out. Glad the hubs are interchangable between disc and drum because that 2 hour drive would have sucked just to chase those rotors down. Thanks for the help. :thumb:

[Chris65]

The hub is separate from the rotors and/or the drums. More than likely you took your hubs off with the drums because you couldn't get them off. To separate the two you need some sort of rust penetrant and a BMFH. Soak the center of the hub where it goes through the center of the drum and around each of the studs. Then use judicious if not excessive force with the hammer on the drum to knock the hub loose. I've actually had to break the drums off before.

The hubs are interchangeable between disc and drum systems.

HTH.

The hubs are close, but not exactly the same. The drum hubs are about 1/4" shorter and may cause the rotor to hit the backing plate. I know you can use a 95-99 Neon rotor to gain the clearance back, but I do not know if the parking brake stuff will fit the neon rotor. According to this article, it will work (The article also shows the difference in the hubs): http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/knowledge.php?title=Brake-and-Wheel-Systems:Rear-Disc-Brake-Options

[Daytana]

The hubs are close, but not exactly the same. The drum hubs are about 1/4" shorter and may cause the rotor to hit the backing plate. I know you can use a 95-99 Neon rotor to gain the clearance back, but I do not know if the parking brake stuff will fit the neon rotor. According to this article, it will work (The article also shows the difference in the hubs): http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/knowledge.php?title=Brake-and-Wheel-Systems:Rear-Disc-Brake-Options

I am running drum hubs in disc rotors just fine without having to use Neon rotors. :thumb: Probably saving some wait running the shorter drum hubs. :p

Finally installed! Difference in braking power is night and day. No more front end tipping when I brake. I used a 1990 Lebaron 10" setup: I swapped the lines (up to the rubber part) so they can run at the correct bends, 4 wheel disc master cylinder, spindles, and backing plate. I did not even have to swap the proportional valve, the car stops on a dime. ;) There was no way I could get that thing off without having to re-flare the lines etc. so I just left it alone so I would not have to open a can of worms. Feels just as good as a 4 wheel disc car with the disc prop valve. No issues with the rears locking up first or anything wild like that. :)

Parts car:
http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL294/1893736/23485827/406850171.jpg

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL294/1893736/23485827/406850173.jpg

To the drums..

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL294/1893736/23485827/406850172.jpg

[Chris65]

We just did the swap for a Daytona stock car we are building, and we are using the drum hubs also, but I did use the 95-99 Neon rotor and it cleared fine. I tried the original 10" rotor with the drum hub, and it did hit the backing plate. Not sure how you got away with it, but if it worked, more power to you. I used the dfrum hub because we had two sets of them, and also, the neon rotor was easier to get, and cheaper. Just wanted to point it out in case someone ran in to problems using the drum hub with the original disc. Our caliper brackets came off of a 91 LeBaron.

[Daytana]

We just did the swap for a Daytona stock car we are building, and we are using the drum hubs also, but I did use the 95-99 Neon rotor and it cleared fine. I tried the original 10" rotor with the drum hub, and it did hit the backing plate. Not sure how you got away with it, but if it worked, more power to you. I used the dfrum hub because we had two sets of them, and also, the neon rotor was easier to get, and cheaper. Just wanted to point it out in case someone ran in to problems using the drum hub with the original disc. Our caliper brackets came off of a 91 LeBaron.

No idea. :confused2: Maybe there is subtle differences in rotors that can affect that and it depends where you buy them from? I got mine from Advance (Wearever Brand iirc). For me it is close to the backing plate but no where near rubbing.

[Reaper1]

Chris65, I've never seen, nor run into an issue with different rear hubs on any 5X100 car (as long as it was not a Y or S body). That's a first for me to hear.

Daytana, what color is the tag on your proportioning valve in your car?

[Chris65]

OK, I just re-read the link I posted for doing the swap using Neon rotors, and now I see what the deal is. The original TD rotors WILL work with either hub, and in fact it is when you use the Neon rotor that you have to use the drum rotor. My mistake there, but it does give you another option to use the Neon or Neon SRT4 rotor which are lighter and easier to locate. This is what we did on our stock car and with the drum hub, the Neon rotor does fit perfectly.

[Daytana]

Chris65, I've never seen, nor run into an issue with different rear hubs on any 5X100 car (as long as it was not a Y or S body). That's a first for me to hear.

Daytana, what color is the tag on your proportioning valve in your car?

The tag is black.


OK, I just re-read the link I posted for doing the swap using Neon rotors, and now I see what the deal is. The original TD rotors WILL work with either hub, and in fact it is when you use the Neon rotor that you have to use the drum rotor. My mistake there, but it does give you another option to use the Neon or Neon SRT4 rotor which are lighter and easier to locate. This is what we did on our stock car and with the drum hub, the Neon rotor does fit perfectly.

You mean when you use the Neon rotor you have to use the drum hub? :thumb: When my rotors get worn out I will have to try the Neon setup for weight savings alone. Definitely sounds like a plus for a Lebaron. :D

[Chris65]

You mean when you use the Neon rotor you have to use the drum hub? :thumb: When my rotors get worn out I will have to try the Neon setup for weight savings alone. Definitely sounds like a plus for a Lebaron. :D

Yes, exactly. We did this on the stock car we are building. Used 95 Neon rotors, drum hubs, 05 SRT4 calipers, and pads from an 02 Stratus. Everything bolted right up to the 10" caliper bracket. The hoses are the ones from the original TD cars, but you do need to use a different banjo bolt if you use the SRT4 caliper. I used an O'Reilly part number H9458-2 because the bolt has a shoulder under the hex that helps center the banjo end of the hose on the caliper. I used the original drum hose brackets also, but I did have to bend them forward a little to prevent the disc brake hose from kinking. It's a very simple mod. http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u524/ChrisG1965/DSCF1742_zpsd1d787b1.jpg (http://s1320.photobucket.com/user/ChrisG1965/media/DSCF1742_zpsd1d787b1.jpg.html)

[Daytana]

Yes, exactly. We did this on the stock car we are building. Used 95 Neon rotors, drum hubs, 05 SRT4 calipers, and pads from an 02 Stratus. Everything bolted right up to the 10" caliper bracket. The hoses are the ones from the original TD cars, but you do need to use a different banjo bolt if you use the SRT4 caliper. I used an O'Reilly part number H9458-2 because the bolt has a shoulder under the hex that helps center the banjo end of the hose on the caliper. I used the original drum hose brackets also, but I did have to bend them forward a little to prevent the disc brake hose from kinking. It's a very simple mod. http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u524/ChrisG1965/DSCF1742_zpsd1d787b1.jpg (http://s1320.photobucket.com/user/ChrisG1965/media/DSCF1742_zpsd1d787b1.jpg.html)

That is good to know, did not know you can run the SRT4 calipers as well. These cars really withstand the test of time when it comes to interchangability stuff like this. I used the disc brake lines (that terminate at the rubber hose) but kept the drum line brackets (as they are exactly the same) to avoid having to bend the lines while having OE fitment. What springs are those? Did they give any drop?

[Chris65]

That is good to know, did not know you can run the SRT4 calipers as well. These cars really withstand the test of time when it comes to interchangability stuff like this. I used the disc brake lines (that terminate at the rubber hose) but kept the drum line brackets (as they are exactly the same) to avoid having to bend the lines while having OE fitment. What springs are those? Did they give any drop?

The springs are off of a Shelby Daytona, but I do not know what drop they will give. We haven't even put the car back on the ground since installing them. We will probably end up cutting them to lower the car even more. The car is gutted out for stock car racing, and we want to get it all assembled before we check ride height. Next project is the cage which I am building. Just got my bender today. We are using all the Shelby stuff under the car, front and back, along with KYB Gas Adjusts in the back and a new set of Mopar Performance front struts which I found on this forum for sale.

I wouldn't mind seeing a pic of your brake line setup. I thought the stuff I used would have fit the factory brackets, but I had to do some slight bending on the bracket that holds the end of the hose for some reason. It was a minor thing, but I didn't know what the factory disc plumbing looked like.

[Daytana]

The springs are off of a Shelby Daytona, but I do not know what drop they will give. We haven't even put the car back on the ground since installing them. We will probably end up cutting them to lower the car even more. The car is gutted out for stock car racing, and we want to get it all assembled before we check ride height. Next project is the cage which I am building. Just got my bender today. We are using all the Shelby stuff under the car, front and back, along with KYB Gas Adjusts in the back and a new set of Mopar Performance front struts which I found on this forum for sale.

I wouldn't mind seeing a pic of your brake line setup. I thought the stuff I used would have fit the factory brackets, but I had to do some slight bending on the bracket that holds the end of the hose for some reason. It was a minor thing, but I didn't know what the factory disc plumbing looked like.

What you see in this picture is pretty much it. It terminates the same place as the drum one does and uses the same brackets:

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL294/1893736/23485827/406850173.jpg

The KYB gas adjusts you have are pretty much the same as my Excel G's. The Excel G's pretty much replaced that lineup of shocks, they still have the same stiffness and whatnot. Think I am going to try some eibachs down the road for a slight drop hopefully. Not really a fan of the "lowlyfe" look lol, especially with all the shitty roads around here.

[Chris65]

That's strange that my setup would not work with the drum brackets. The hoses were severely kinked. It's not the end of the world since it is all together and not leaking, It wasn't a major deal, but I want as much of the car to be as "bolt on" as possible in case anything ever gets damaged in a wreck on the track. Thanks for posting the pic.

[Reaper1]

Hmmm...I'd post up a question about the specs of the black tagged proportioning valve in '94. Even though you've had ok luck now, that doesn't mean in other situations that it is going to be ok. You really should run the proportioning valve from the donor car unless the specs for the one in your car match either the "white" or "yellow" one in this chart.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/knowledge.php?title=Brake-and-Wheel-Systems:Proportioning-Valve-Options

[Daytana]

That's strange that my setup would not work with the drum brackets. The hoses were severely kinked. It's not the end of the world since it is all together and not leaking, It wasn't a major deal, but I want as much of the car to be as "bolt on" as possible in case anything ever gets damaged in a wreck on the track. Thanks for posting the pic.

What year is your Daytona? If it was 87 or 88ish iirc those cars (if they had discs) had the oddball setup where the emergency brake is part of the caliper; I can see the brackets being different on those if that is the case. The later model cars share the same brackets albeit different lines between disc and drum.


Hmmm...I'd post up a question about the specs of the black tagged proportioning valve in '94. Even though you've had ok luck now, that doesn't mean in other situations that it is going to be ok. You really should run the proportioning valve from the donor car unless the specs for the one in your car match either the "white" or "yellow" one in this chart.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/kn...-Valve-Options

I have read about other users using a drum prop valve with no issues. This is also my second car that I converted to disk, my last was a 92 Dynasty (note: on the Dynasty you have to rasp out one of the holes to get the backing plate to fit as Dynastys and probably New Yorkers/Imperials as well have different spacing) that I used an 87 setup on (the later setup is way better) and also stopped fine. I have it in the garage as a spare though, those lines are rediculously hard to get off with the prop off the car (I cut the lines from the donor and left the fittings off so I could get them off later) let alone whilst on the car. :bolt:

[Chris65]

Our car is a 93, but the brackets came from a 92 LeBaron I believe. Like I said, it wasn't a big deal to do the modifications to make it work. It just seemed odd that the factory hoses wouldn't work with the drum hose brackets. I'm sure if I saw an actual pic of the original setup, I could see what what causing it.

[rbryant]

Glad to see so many people are making use of the drum hubs with neon rotors!

I agree that drum hubs will work with pretty much any rotor (non vented/vented/neon/SRT4/PT) but disc hubs will not work with neon/srt4 rotors. I figured this out as I have had pretty much all of those on my GLHS while experimenting (see the Knowledge Center for details)

Given that most people who are converting are starting with drum hubs anyway this make using the drum hubs a win/win.

The other advantage of the drum hubs is that the grease caps dont stick out as far so they work better with aftermarket wheels (my rear disc hub grease caps would not allow the center caps on my aftermarket wheels to work).

-Rich

[Reaper1]

I have read about other users using a drum prop valve with no issues. This is also my second car that I converted to disk, my last was a 92 Dynasty (note: on the Dynasty you have to rasp out one of the holes to get the backing plate to fit as Dynastys and probably New Yorkers/Imperials as well have different spacing) that I used an 87 setup on (the later setup is way better) and also stopped fine. I have it in the garage as a spare though, those lines are rediculously hard to get off with the prop off the car (I cut the lines from the donor and left the fittings off so I could get them off later) let alone whilst on the car. :bolt:

Yes, I've used the 1990 yellow tagged drum proportioning valve on ALL of my 11" disc conversions with very good success. I tried to leave the factory white tagged proportioning valve on my '88 Shelby Z when I converted it, but it simply had too much rear bias, so I swapped in a said 1990 yellow tagged one and it's been MUCH better (although I still had to do some biasing with different pad compounds to get it where I liked it).

My first conversion (2001-ish) was on my 1990 Daytona and I used 1991 Y-body (New Yorker/Imperial) solid components with 1st gen LWB S-body (van) front components. This yields a braking set-up that has the same hydraulic needs as the 11" vented set-up, but it will fit under 14" wheels (I didn't have larger wheels at the time). To use the Y-body components in the back you do need to file the holes in the backing plate so they will bolt on. Something else to keep in mind, if you use these components, is that the adapter brackets and calipers are NOT the same as other solid disc set-ups as the slide pins are in a different position, so it's not just the adapter bracket mounting holes.

To get the lines off of the proportioning valve: heat, some sort of corrosion penetrant, and real line wrenches are your friends. If the valve is off of the car, the same 3 things, but add a vice. If you don't have a vise (like me), a large adjustable wrench fit snugly on the body of the valve while standing on the other end of said adjustable wrench while using the correct line wrench has gotten the job done for me. I've also used the aid of a dead-blow hammer in some cases to help encourage things. Double wrenching can work, but while standing on one thing and putting pressure on another, both being unstable, this usually leads to cussing and frustration and possibly banged up hands.

[Daytana]

Thanks for the added info Reaper. C and Y bodies are kinda foreign compared to the rest of the EE-Ks.

Update: It has been several weeks on the drum prop valve and rear discs and everything has been very reliable. My next mod is going to be PB endlink swaybar! ;)

[Reaper1]

No problem! :thumb: It's nice to know there are options out there like that and I think it should be shared!

Good to hear on the brakes!

You'll like the swaybar. It does make a marked difference. Just make sure to install it the correct way! LOL I even messed that one up! :D