Whos running a bolt pattern swap? 5x114? 4x100? etc?

[Rrider]

Anybody running a bolt pattern swop? Why did you do it? How did you do it? What wheels are you running? Lets see it!

[shackwrrr]

I'm planning a bolt patten swap on my van. 5x100 to 5x114.3. Couple of reasons, one being the AWD rear axle that I'm going to use is big bolt pattern already, second reason is big bolt pattern hub bearings are half the price of 5x100 ones. So the plans are 11in front brakes off newer van with 5x114.3 pattern with car struts, then in the rear I'll use the awd axle with the stock rear springs and suspension to match the drop in the front.

[turbo84voyager]

I am running 5x114.3 on my 89 caravan. It had 5x100. If you are doing this to a van, It is a bolt on, just get spindles, calpiers, rotors and hub assembly from another van. Actuially you can just buy new wheel hub assemblies and rotors. The rear requires the hub and new drums. It is a bolt on. The larger front brakes do stop better. There is no reason to swap to 4x100 and parts will be hard to get since they are only on 84 / 85 vans and early cars. There is a pretty good selection of wheels for the 5x114.3 pattern. Mine were on a family members RX-8


Justin

[turbovanman²]

I am running 5x114.3 on my 89 caravan. It had 5x100. If you are doing this to a van, It is a bolt on, just get spindles, calpiers, rotors and hub assembly from another van. Actuially you can just buy new wheel hub assemblies and rotors. The rear requires the hub and new drums. It is a bolt on. The larger front brakes do stop better. There is no reason to swap to 4x100 and parts will be hard to get since they are only on 84 / 85 vans and early cars. There is a pretty good selection of wheels for the 5x114.3 pattern. Mine were on a family members RX-8


Justin

Yep, get the knuckles etc from a 89+ Grand Caravan or swap to the 2nd gen stuff.

I have some large fairly new bolt in wheel bearings and also the rear drums and hubs if you need parts.

[Rrider]

Yeah, 5x114 wheel selection is awesome. And I'm talking USED cheap wheel selection. Same for 4x100. But I know for new ones its probably the same story.

[Daviticus]

I'm looking into converting my Shelby Lancer to 5x114.3 for wheel choices. Seems the front is a bolt-in affair [the large brakes are a bonus], the rear is whats' going to be a pain.

I was thinking of using the later P-body knuckles up front for the roll center correction [lower ball joint attachment], the Caravan stuff should bolt right on I assume, since they both use bolt-in bearing assemblies? For the rear I may just grab the complete spindle assembly off a GTC LeBaron or Daytona just to mess with and see if I can re-drill, as I'd rather not screw up Shelby stuff and keep the car a roller.

[shackwrrr]

Howabout caravan hubs in the rear with intrepid rotors.

[Daviticus]

I think I'll attempt to explore that option as well. I work at a wrecking yard with all these cars available, and am off Tuesdays - guess I know where I'll be haha.

[turbovanman²]

I'm looking into converting my Shelby Lancer to 5x114.3 for wheel choices. Seems the front is a bolt-in affair [the large brakes are a bonus], the rear is whats' going to be a pain.

I was thinking of using the later P-body knuckles up front for the roll center correction [lower ball joint attachment], the Caravan stuff should bolt right on I assume, since they both use bolt-in bearing assemblies? For the rear I may just grab the complete spindle assembly off a GTC LeBaron or Daytona just to mess with and see if I can re-drill, as I'd rather not screw up Shelby stuff and keep the car a roller.

Don't use van knuckles, your turning radius will increase and you'll end up doing a 10 point u-turn.

[Vigo]

Well let's see...

On my 89 Aries at various points i had the 89 5x114.3 setup and the later 91-up 5x114.3 setup, and the back i took 10.5" solid disc setup and redrilled the hubs and rotors for 5x114.3.

On my 90 caravan i have 91-up 5x114.3 in front, and 5x114.3 massive drum brakes in back because it's an AWD axle.

On my 84 Executive Sedan was 4x100, i used 90 Caravan 5x100 front brakes, and ~93 caravan 5x100 drums (still the only person to put van drums on a car axle that i know of).

On my 82 Lebaron, which is 4x100, im putting 90 Dynasty front 5x100 setup and 89 Daytona ES 5x100 rear discs.

On my 95 Neon which is 5x100, im putting 82 Lebaron 4x100 front setup on it (which requires 2g neon axles), and may convert the back to k-car style bolt-on rear hubs by cutting off the factory one which is part of the spindle. I may or may not.. But it will be 4x100 swapped back there whichever way i go.

So i have done fair amount of bolt pattern swaps and im in the process of doing more!

[Daviticus]

Don't use van knuckles, your turning radius will increase and you'll end up doing a 10 point u-turn.

Right, that's why I plan to use the P-body Shadow knuckles with the Caravan bearings/rotors. I should be able to find a setup that works before I pay for anything, since I have access to all the cars in the yard and can bolt everything together.

[cordes]

John Trotter is. Check out his build thread to see how he went to 114 from 100.

[Reaper1]

I want to go to the 5x114.3 (basically 5x4.5), but the rear brakes are my hold-up. I want to keep my 11" vented rears. I haven't looked, but I don't know of any of our cars that have vented rear discs in that bolt pattern with the right dimensions. Anybody know of options for this?

[Vigo]

I converted 5x100 10" solid discs to 5x114.3 for my aries; the same procedure would work for the vented discs. I used a 5x114.3 rotor with a hubcentric ring on the hub along with some transfer punches to get my pattern down, then just drilled new holes and pressed studs into the new holes. I dont have 200 mph ambitions like you but ive had the car above 100 with no issues. I think as long as you are using a hub-centric ring with your wheels you will be fine even for high speeds.

[Reaper1]

Yeah, that would work! LOL. I actually thought of drilling, but I didn't think about the hubcentric thing. The other part of me was hoping there was something newer out that used the same size or similar size vented rotor with internal parking brake that I could simply buy (maybe even cheaper OR find upgrades for).

Thanks for the info! :thumb:

[fixit]

i run 2 different offsets 5x100 to 5x114, 1" and 5x120 2" to support corvette rims w/ 245's and 275's on my srt4..
yep, they both track highway ruts
here is a picture of the 275x17

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af199/netnews/IMG_0852.jpg

[Reaper1]

i run 2 different offsets 5x100 to 5x114, 1" and 5x120 2" to support corvette rims w/ 245's and 275's on my srt4..
yep, they both track highway ruts
here is a picture of the 275x17


OK...this is confusing. I know the GM pattern is 5x4.5 (5x114.3).

Offset is how much the wheel center is spaced out from the back edge of the wheel.

Obviously you have to run spacers to run those wheels. Are you saying one side of the car is running 1" and the other 2" front to back, or...???

Where did 5x100 and 5x120 (which I don't think I've heard of) come into play with these wheels?

[shayne]

gm pattern is 4x4.75" or 5x120. looks to use 2"spacers to use the corvette rims (lots of offset on the corvette wheels) and 1" ones to use 5x114.3 rims with probably less offset.

[Reaper1]

gm pattern is 4x4.75" or 5x120. looks to use 2"spacers to use the corvette rims (lots of offset on the corvette wheels) and 1" ones to use 5x114.3 rims with probably less offset.

Ok...I did get the bolt pattern wrong. Sorry. :(

So, is he using bolt pattern adapters to run the different bolt patterns or what? I don't see how you can run 2 bolt patterns on the same hub without using some sort of adapter.

[shayne]

yup, i take it as he is using spacers/adaptors to use the wheels he likes.

[minigts]

John Trotter is. Check out his build thread to see how he went to 114 from 100.

Yeah went to 5x114.3. I have 90'ish Daytona front spindles with the AWD Caravan bolt-in hubs and 99 Intrepid rear spindles and rear disc brakes. Had to machine down the rears to just the spindle, but it was pretty easy overall. The biggest issue I ran into was slotting the spindles to match the bolt pattern to the rear axle and making the brake lines work. But given I did everything in a matter of a couple days, I'd say it was much easier than expected.

[turboshad]

So do the Caravan hubs bolt right into the same year spindles with a 5x100 or do you need to change uprights as well?

Did you cover all this in your build log JT2?

[Reaper1]

The caravan hubs will bolt right into the 91-up spindles no issues. That's what I have on my car. I do probably need to look for some car uprights, though, because the ones on my car are van ones, and appearantly they have a different location for the tie rod and causes the car to have a MASSIVE turning circle. I don't know for fact because I've not put the van and the car 91-up uprights next to each other to compare them.

[rbryant]

The caravan hubs will bolt right into the 91-up spindles no issues. That's what I have on my car. I do probably need to look for some car uprights, though, because the ones on my car are van ones, and appearantly they have a different location for the tie rod and causes the car to have a MASSIVE turning circle. I don't know for fact because I've not put the van and the car 91-up uprights next to each other to compare them.

I believe that the hub size is different though so make sure that any 5x114 wheel you use has a large enough hub center. The 5x100s are 57.1mm where the 5x114s are 71.5mm? I haven't measured the 5x114 hubs but somone did mention it to me in an email.

Most aftermarket wheels have a large center but I could see some wheels being smaller than 71.5mm hub centric and wouldn't work.

-Rich

[Vigo]

Yes the caravan center bore is fairly massive. I have some 18x8 RX8 wheels for my 5x114.3-swapped caravan but i have to enlarge the bores before they will bolt on. I think i figured out an 'easy' way to do this involving putting a custom-diameter bearing on the end of a router bit, but it's all theoretical until i get it done. I do know that a 60-grit flapper wheel does jack crap. :p

[Reaper1]

OH! You guys are talking about the center ring where the CV axle nut is? Man, when you say hub, I think of the entire assembly!! Ooppss..

[Vigo]

We're talking about the part that centers the wheel. The part that a wheel is 'hub centric' to. :)

[Reaper1]

Yes, that's what I was describing...or trying to LOL

[turboshad]

I was talking about the whole hub assembly including the bearing so you were getting what I was putting down. :) I'm assuming the outer axle spline is still the same too.

[Vigo]

Well to flesh out my assumptions i think the hub is the part that the wheel bolts to, that is pressed into the inner race of the wheel bearing, that the axle nut pulls on to preload the bearing.
The spindle is the part the bearing bolts/presses into that also bolts to the ball joint, tie rod, strut etc.

On the rear setup i still think the hub is the part the wheel bolts to, although it contains the outer races for the bearings. The part the bearings ride on, i might call a spindle too, although im tempted to call it a stub axle.

[Reaper1]

I was talking about the whole hub assembly including the bearing so you were getting what I was putting down. :) I'm assuming the outer axle spline is still the same too.

It should be. I'm fairly certain that the CV axles for small brake vans vs. large brake vans are the same. I don't know if you knew, but for the 2nd gen vans, the vans with the 11" brakes got the 5x114.3 pattern, and the vans with the 10" brakes got the 5x100 pattern.


Well to flesh out my assumptions i think the hub is the part that the wheel bolts to, that is pressed into the inner race of the wheel bearing, that the axle nut pulls on to preload the bearing.
The spindle is the part the bearing bolts/presses into that also bolts to the ball joint, tie rod, strut etc.

On the rear setup i still think the hub is the part the wheel bolts to, although it contains the outer races for the bearings. The part the bearings ride on, i might call a spindle too, although im tempted to call it a stub axle.

OK, here's how it breaks down in most parts store's systems:
the wheel bearing is obviously just that
the spindle aka wheel hub is the part that has the wheel studs pressed into it
the assembly of the wheel bearing and the spindle is called the hub assembly
the hub assembly bolts in or presses into the upright, sometimes also referred to as the spindle assembly

For the rear:
the hub is what the wheel studs are pressed into and the outer wheel bearing races are pressed into
then, of course the inner and outer wheel bearings and seal
then the spindle aka stub axle

Yeah, it's confusing and a lot of people interchange the terms, and even different companies and parts stores can interchange them. It's all in how you learned to name the parts, or how it's called out in the FSM.

[Vigo]

I'm fairly certain that the CV axles for small brake vans vs. large brake vans are the same.

They definitely are the same.