Eastern Catalytic Converter Failure

[jckrieger]

In 2010 my 91 R/T's muffler finally rusted through so I figured I'd update the exhaust while I was under the car. I purchased an Eastern Catalytic model 70318 and some 2.5" piping in order to fabricate a muffler-less exhaust system. The car drove fine with the new converter, and the exhaust tone was reasonable with no muffler.

Well, 2.5 years later the catalytic converter's brick has come apart and is now plugging the exhaust. Power on the car is WAY down, the car is very sensitive to spark knock, and the brick is making all kinds of noise as it rattles around in the housing.

The car is still pretty stock, with the only modification being an extra 2psi of boost (13psi) with the stock injectors and map. I've never had a converter fail like this. My recommendation is to stay away from these converters, as the manufacturer basically states they won't honor their 5 year warranty unless it's a welding defect on the housing.

I'll post pictures of the unit later this week when I remove it from the system. Now I'm going to need to find a decent muffler to put on the car. I need something reasonably quiet in a 2.5" size. Any recommendations? I'm thinking about ordering another Magnaflow Oval muffler, as that is what was on my CSX and it worked just fine.

[cordes]

Dang Clark, that really stinks. I would be pretty upset about that if they pulled that on me. As far as mufflers, I would go with the magnaflow. You know it'll work and if you have the exhaust exiting from under the vehicle just about anything will keep the noise down enough to make it nice.

[jckrieger]

At least this gives me motivation to fix both the Spirit's exhaust and the exhaust on my V10 Ram. The baffles in the truck's muffler have come apart and are rattling like crazy we well. I guess this can be a good reason to put a few miles on the GLHS.

[cordes]

that'll be great. I'm probably going to have the Daytona out this week.

[shackwrrr]

Go with a metallic substrate cat, The heat and extra fuel from a turbo engine kill cat pretty fast, especially universals.

[turbovanman²]

Go with a metallic substrate cat, The heat and extra fuel from a turbo engine kill cat pretty fast, especially universals.

Yep, make sure its not misfiring or running to rich.

I like to use Walker super cats on our cars, seem to last, at least mine did.

[Jackcat28]

Hello, I am sorry to hear you are having an isssue with an Eastern Converter. I am a technical Rep. for Eastern Catalytic Converters. The warranty is 5 years /50,000 miles for the converter, body , shell and piping, (including the substrate material (internal ceramic/metallic honey comb). Please contact he Eastern Technical Hotline for assistance. Thank You , Jack George.



In 2010 my 91 R/T's muffler finally rusted through so I figured I'd update the exhaust while I was under the car. I purchased an Eastern Catalytic model 70318 and some 2.5" piping in order to fabricate a muffler-less exhaust system. The car drove fine with the new converter, and the exhaust tone was reasonable with no muffler.

Well, 2.5 years later the catalytic converter's brick has come apart and is now plugging the exhaust. Power on the car is WAY down, the car is very sensitive to spark knock, and the brick is making all kinds of noise as it rattles around in the housing.

The car is still pretty stock, with the only modification being an extra 2psi of boost (13psi) with the stock injectors and map. I've never had a converter fail like this. My recommendation is to stay away from these converters, as the manufacturer basically states they won't honor their 5 year warranty unless it's a welding defect on the housing.

I'll post pictures of the unit later this week when I remove it from the system. Now I'm going to need to find a decent muffler to put on the car. I need something reasonably quiet in a 2.5" size. Any recommendations? I'm thinking about ordering another Magnaflow Oval muffler, as that is what was on my CSX and it worked just fine.

[jckrieger]

Here's a picture of what I found inside. I'm pretty sure this is not the result of an engine malfunction!

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa44/jckrieger/2013-04-15_20-11-48_970_zps79ca22ad.jpg (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/jckrieger/media/2013-04-15_20-11-48_970_zps79ca22ad.jpg.html)

---------- Post added at 11:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 AM ----------

Jackcat,

I have read the warranty statement on the Eastern Catalytic website. I'm not sure I'm interested in paying for shipping both directions, plus all of the downtime and labor in order to get another $37 converter. When a hard disk drive fails, I pay for shipping 1 way, and the shipping cost is a small fraction of the value of the drive. In this case, the customer is asked to pay for shipping both directions, which exceeds the retail value of the converter. What value is a warranty if the claims process has a higher cost than purchasing a new unit?

With that said, I am impressed by the low cost of the converters. Unfortunately, I would have paid 2x in order to avoid tearing my exhaust system apart after only 15K miles.

http://www.rockauto.com/info/EasternCat/EasternReturnPolicy.pdf


Hello, I am sorry to hear you are having an isssue with an Eastern Converter. I am a technical Rep. for Eastern Catalytic Converters. The warranty is 5 years /50,000 miles for the converter, body , shell and piping, (including the substrate material (internal ceramic/metallic honey comb). Please contact he Eastern Technical Hotline for assistance. Thank You , Jack George.

[turbovanman²]

That is caused by a few things, IE fuel, hot exhaust temps and of course, lower grade converter.

[shadow88]

Without seeing any scorched edges, I would have to assume it's a build quality issue. I've seen many aftermarket cats fail in this way, although Simon's points are valid causes of failure.

[jckrieger]

This is my assessment as well. The other bricks are still present and not damaged. I drove the car daily for two weeks with the front brick dislodged and it still looks like it's in 1 piece after it had been banging around loose in the housing. There are no visible cracks, no melting, and no discoloration. I should have known better than to buy a stainless steel catalytic converter for less than the cost of a stainless steel muffler!

The good part about this is I will be installing an ATR Pitbull stainless steel muffler on the new 3" exhaust system. This is a muffler that has been long out of production that I've had laying around for some time. This should really improve the exhaust tone over the cat-only system that was on the car.


Without seeing any scorched edges, I would have to assume it's a build quality issue. I've seen many aftermarket cats fail in this way, although Simon's points are valid causes of failure.

[zin]

I'm kind of impressed that a factory rep would step up and post, though the point about shipping costs, etc is a valid one.

I would suggest they implement a program whereby customers can email photographic evidence of the defect, and if obvious enough, authorize a replacement to be shipped, preferably at n/c...

On a side note, I have to think the cat was a close-out, etc. as the materials would likely cost close to $37.00, so paying for shipping one-way, might not be out of line, though sales/marketing may want to re-align prices to amortize the expected failure rate/costs to replace defects... But there I go "fixing" someone else's biz!

Mike

[jckrieger]

I originally purchased 2 of these converters, each for $44 in 2010. One converter is on my GLHS with about 100 miles on it, the other I installed on the R/T. Yesterday I checked the price for the same part number at Rock Auto and the price is down to $37. It's not too often that you see a price go down. I really have no idea how they can offer converters that actually function for the prices that Rock Auto sells them at.

With all that said, I do owe the company a fair chance. I've read enough horror stories, but we'll see how they handle this. I'll report the results as well so people can get an idea what kind of service can be expected.


On a side note, I have to think the cat was a close-out, etc. as the materials would likely cost close to $37.00, so paying for shipping one-way, might not be out of line, though sales/marketing may want to re-align prices to amortize the expected failure rate/costs to replace defects... But there I go "fixing" someone else's biz!

Mike

[zin]

Wow! That is really cheap!

Mike

[A.J.]

I use Eastern cats on my customers cars and they work great. I spend $75-$100 my cost on them though. Maybe you should stay away from $37 cats and maybe Eastern shouldn't have such a long warranty on a low cost product. The OEM vehicle manufacturers are required by federal law to warranty their cats for 8 years or 80,000 miles and you see the cost difference when you buy an original cat from the dealer. If you're only spending $37 you should feel lucky that it lasts a year never mind 2 1/2.

[supercrackerbox]

The good part about this is I will be installing an ATR Pitbull stainless steel muffler on the new 3" exhaust system. This is a muffler that has been long out of production that I've had laying around for some time. This should really improve the exhaust tone over the cat-only system that was on the car.

That's the muffler I have on my Charger, and I love how it sounds.

[Jackcat28]

Hello, I have not heard from you concerning this issue. Please contact me at 800 553 7199 and we will resolve this issue.. Shipping is normally refunded when the unit is credited back to the vendor. Thank You, Jack George.

[jckrieger]

Jackcat,

I have submitted a warranty claim/customer support request via your company's website. I am waiting to hear back. I work M-F, so making phone calls during the day doesn't work well for me. I'm already taking time off work to get my oven repaired. If I need to make a call, it will likely be in the late afternoon central time.

[jckrieger]

If you're only spending $37 you should feel lucky that it lasts a year never mind 2 1/2.

I purchased the converter from Rock Auto. In the 2.5" inlet size, the majority of the converters cost less than $75. The warranty is the same 5 year/50K mile warranty regardless of cost. This isn't a case where I made the decision to buy a "low quality", short warranty unit. I have no way of knowing which part numbers are more durable than others.

[jckrieger]

I received a response from Jack at Eastern Catalytic via email through their customer service form. He is helping me out and providing a replacement converter. The lesson learned here is that you should not be put off by the posted warranty statement.

Back in the days of local auto parts stores, I would have simply returned the converter directly to the store. Now with online sales, retailers typically push support off directly to the manufacturer. This can be quite a headache, as I've had battles between retailers and manufacturers over who owns support of the product. Luckily, the customer usually ends up in reasonably good shape, but it requires a lot more work than it did in the past.

Another point I will bring up is Jack mentioned the converters require a break-in period in order to set the ceramic bricks in the converter housing. The OEM converters in of the turbo Dodges I have seen have been a single ceramic brick, so they didn't seem to have this failure mode. Either way, I'll be sure to give the new converter plenty of time to get settled. I have the same model converter on my Omni and it has had a lot of extended idle time. I would expect this converter to certainly live a long and happy life.

[jckrieger]

I wanted to post an update. Today at the auto-x my Omni failed the other Eastern Catalytic converter that I had purchased. This converter appears to have failed the same way as the previous one. This car was also mostly stock, with the exception of a GLHS stage 2 type cal.

I can not recommend this brand. This converter had about 1,000 break in miles, but still failed. I know this converter is now 3 years old, but this car gets driven less than 1,000 miles a year! I guess if you're going to auto-x, or drive to work, this converter is not compatible with these types of driving activities.

[Shadowv4l]

What is a cat? Is that something you need in your exhaust? And for that matter, what the hell is a muffler?!

[jckrieger]

Neither of my turbo dodges have cats now, and both have a single straight through muffler. A $25 glass pack replaced the converter this afternoon. I tried to keep a converter, but that obviously didn't work out so well.


What is a cat? Is that something you need in your exhaust? And for that matter, what the hell is a muffler?!

[135sohc]

Most aftermarket converters, even the direct replacement ones are 1/3-1/2 size smaller than the originals for one reason and eastern more or less admits on their website that they don't have to follow the original emissions requirements so they go as cheap as possible and make them nowhere nearly as well as the originals. The walker unit on the Shadow I installed not quite 5 years ago along with the rest of the exhaust.. That was a huge mistake. Its all rotten and falling apart, rattles ect. Tomorrow I'm stopping at advance to see how much of a bunch of butt heads there going to be about honoring the warranty on everything.

[cordes]

I'm so glad that I haven't had a problem with a cat in close to 15 years now.

[tryingbe]

Never had any problem with any of the 3 inch mangaflow cat.

[A.J.]

Never had any problem with any of the 3 inch mangaflow cat.

Your Magnaflow cat probably wasn't $37 and meant for a daily driver.

I think the Eastern cat is failing because it's being put in an environment it wasn't intended. If you're racing your car your in boost. If you're in boost and it's properly tuned you're running 11:1 air/fuel ratio. Your average naturally aspirated car will never see 11:1 and if that's what your cat was built for then it's going to fail prematurely. I also run Magnaflows and don't have a problem with them.

I replaced one out of two Eastern cats on a customer's Toyota Sequoia today that I installed just over three years ago (May 2011) because his were stolen. His spark plugs were worn over half the spec (spec .031" measured .065"), his air filter was filthy and the fuel that came out of his fuel filter looked like mud. I'm not blaming the cat for failing in that kind of environment.

[Aries_Turbo]

Your average naturally aspirated car will never see 11:1 and if that's what your cat was built for then it's going to fail prematurely.

my stock 97 sohc neon is in the 11:1 range at wot unfortunately. and its completely stock and in great mechanical shape.... I have a wideband on it just to see whats up and to mess around lol.

Brian

[A.J.]

my stock 97 sohc neon is in the 11:1 range at wot unfortunately. and its completely stock and in great mechanical shape.... I have a wideband on it just to see whats up and to mess around lol.

Brian

Is it a stock cat or aftermarket? If aftermarket what brand?

[supercrackerbox]

. The baffles in the truck's muffler have come apart and are rattling like crazy we well.

That has been an ongoing problem in the manufacturing process. Quite simply, you've got half a dozen or so workers per shift running the assembly line, and the job gets so monotonous that when the machinery gets out of adjustment, they either don't notice or don't care. Our contract with Chrysler has been very strained with all the returned parts coming back.

BTW, you didn't hear that from me.

[turbovanman²]

Walker super cats take the abuse and the newer Cal cats are even better but OE stainless mesh type are the best, IE Mazda's, some Mitsubishi and aftermarket stainless mesh if you must run a cat.

[jckrieger]

These failures weren't due to improper A/F ratio or race use. The converter that failed on my R/T saw only nice easy highway driving to and from work. They say they need to break in, but there's nothing to break in. It's just 2 bricks in a dimpled shell. I should cut apart my warranty replaced converter just to show how they're constructed.

[turbovanman²]

Never heard of having to break in a converter?

In cat cases, you get what you pay for.

[A.J.]

These failures weren't due to improper A/F ratio or race use. The converter that failed on my R/T saw only nice easy highway driving to and from work. They say they need to break in, but there's nothing to break in. It's just 2 bricks in a dimpled shell. I should cut apart my warranty replaced converter just to show how they're constructed.

You just posted this:


I wanted to post an update. Today at the auto-x my Omni failed the other Eastern Catalytic converter that I had purchased. This converter appears to have failed the same way as the previous one. This car was also mostly stock, with the exception of a GLHS stage 2 type cal.

I can not recommend this brand. This converter had about 1,000 break in miles, but still failed. I know this converter is now 3 years old, but this car gets driven less than 1,000 miles a year! I guess if you're going to auto-x, or drive to work, this converter is not compatible with these types of driving activities.

Your thread is confusing to follow.

[jckrieger]

This thread is confusing because I had 2 failures on 2 different cars. The R/T just commutes to and from work. The GLHS is used for auto-x, but also sees highway miles. Both cars had factory catalytic converters before these Eastern converters were installed. The only reason the aftermarket converters were installed is because I needed something that was 2.5" in and out.

[zin]

No doubt the inexpensive aftermarket cats aren't as bullet proof, or long lasting, the spec they are using isn't going to be as rigorous, they don't need to be sure they'll last 100k miles and keep both the EPA and their clients happy (GM,FORD, MOPAR, etc).

If these guys are OEM suppliers, one would think they'd have the experience to know how NOT to build them and provide a durable, though maybe shorter lived version of the original piece, but maybe that's me applying logic somewhere it is a stranger? ...

Mike

[Aries_Turbo]

Is it a stock cat or aftermarket? If aftermarket what brand?

stock. 196k miles on it.

Brian

[A.J.]

Stock cats are WAY better than aftermarket. That's why factory cats cost $1000 and aftermarket ones are $100. Same reason you get $200 for a stock cat from a recycler and only $15 for an aftermarket.

[4 l-bodies]

Stock cats are WAY better than aftermarket. That's why factory cats cost $1000 and aftermarket ones are $100. Same reason you get $200 for a stock cat from a recycler and only $15 for an aftermarket.
I completely agree AJ. The last few used OEM converters I've brought in, they only gave me $45 each. I'm appearently getting ripped by my recycler!

[135sohc]

At least you get something for them. MD you might as well toss them in the trash.

[State junk licensee] JUNK DEALER OR SCRAP METALPROCESSOR may not purchase a catalytic converter from an individual unless theindividual, at the time of purchase, provides identification as: processor; or



(i) a licensed automotive dismantler and recycler or scrap metal
(ii) an agent or employee of a licensed commercial enterprise.

[4 l-bodies]

At least you get something for them. MD you might as well toss them in the trash.
That's one thing I like about you. Your a glass half full not half empty kind of guy! :thumb:
Todd

[JDAWG]

I have taken cats to the recyclers before. I live in MD. Now they did have to add all my info to their system off my license, photocopy my lic, and wrote me a check. I guess that's covering their butt in case it's stolen, but really no way they could tell, cats don't have the VIN stamped on them.

I would bet like everyone is saying the cats just can't handle a turbo car, the egt, and like said compare one to a stock cat, even just the size, factory cats are sometimes physically twice as big.

[Ondonti]

I have taken cats to the recyclers before. I live in MD. Now they did have to add all my info to their system off my license, photocopy my lic, and wrote me a check. I guess that's covering their butt in case it's stolen, but really no way they could tell, cats don't have the VIN stamped on them.

I would bet like everyone is saying the cats just can't handle a turbo car, the egt, and like said compare one to a stock cat, even just the size, factory cats are sometimes physically twice as big.

Its more like they are keeping tabs to see if you bring a quite a few catalytic converters....Just like you can't keep returning sinks to Home Depot every week.

[mech1nxh]

Excellent Thread & Discussion (as is the 'norm' on T-M ).


The OEM vehicle manufacturers are required by federal law to warranty their cats for 8 years or 80,000 miles.

As of 2010 to present, THX to honda whom submitted EPA emissions test vehicles to the North american car market for EPA certification,
THEN 'cheapened' the actual build --- read got caught--- That is another story...


and you see the cost difference when you buy an original cat from the dealer. If you're only spending $37 you should feel lucky that it lasts a year never mind 2 1/2.

^^^
Spoken for truth Sir!!
edit...with Your humble indulgence Sir,
I would put an Eastern Cat on any of My Customers vehicles if need be.

??? someone is complaining about cheap repairs on an "K based Board" ???

[JDAWG]

Its more like they are keeping tabs to see if you bring a quite a few catalytic converters....Just like you can't keep returning sinks to Home Depot every week.
Right right, stuff like that also, a dealership I used to work at got jacked for 2 cats, kinda funny they just had a flange on each end and just some nuts holding those gigantic things on, diesel rams. Cops checked the local recycler and nothing, they even take pics and add all that stuff on file if it looks fishy, like 2 gigantic brand new diesel ram cats. Dealer cost was only 3k a piece, the sales manager was not happy lol. Dude just rolled underneath, no need to jack up, and probably had them off in a minute with a ratchet wrench or battery impact. The only reason they found it was cause a sales guy went to move the truck for a customer to drive. It came into service with a repair order that said "exhaust is loud" lol. Then they looked around and found a 2nd truck.

[Gold85GLH-T]

Haha that's some funny stuff.