Shortblock building procedure questions

[iTurbo]

I'm about to start building a 2.2L TIII shortblock with stock pistons/crank/rods. The main bolts are stock, but I'm using new ARP rod bolts. The crank and rods have been fully serviced. I am a total newbie at this, and I'm SICK of procrastinating any longer on this out of fear of failure. I have '91 Chrysler Factory Service Manuals that cover the procedure fairly well. I still have some questions though, since I don't have anybody near me that can walk me through this for the first time. I might be overthinking some of these things, but I just want to be sure.

1. When using Plasicgauge to check rod/main bearing clearance, I assume you need to have the parts very clean and free of any assembly lube. Do I put the strip of Plastigauge on the upper-most portion of the bearing? Do I need to check the clearance at different positions? Does the strip need to cover the full width of the bearing shell? Do I check all main bearing clearances at once or one at a time?

2. I notice there is not a tightening/loosening sequence for the rod and main bolts.. When assembling the main/rod caps, do you just tighten them evenly to seat the caps and do the final torque evenly on both sides? When tightening main caps, should I do I work inward to outward (#3 first, #1 and #5 last)?

3. Can anybody suggest a good assembly lube? The local machine shop says to use 'Lubriplate'..

4. Do I coat the rod/main bolts with motor oil or something else (dry?) Just a thin film to wet the threads or?

5. Should I chase the rod/main bolts with a die before installation? Should I chase the main threads in the block with a tap? The FSM suggests using a proper size nut and threading it on and back off and ensuring that it threads easily to check for bolt stretch.

6. What should I use to oil the cylinder bores for installation of the pistons?

I will probably have more questions later. The shortblock in question is actually already assembled by a local machine shop, but it has been stored for a couple years now (in a bag), so I'd like to tear it apart and verify all clearances and also paint the block after I disassemble it.

[bamman]

1. You need to have the parts pretty clean when using the plastigauge. Do all the bearings at once to save time, the upper portion of the bearing shell is fine, and do the full width of the bearing shell. Doing the full width of the bearing shell allows you to see if there is any variation of the whole width wise portion of the bearing, which I don't think would ever happen though.

2. You don't have to work inward to outward on the caps. You can tighten them to specs in any order.

3. Most of my local auto parts stores sell two types of assembly lube. A red type lube in a squeeze bottle and a grease type lube in a tube. I've used both. I've noticed the red type lube drips after a while. The grease type lube doesn't.

4. I think you oil them, check the FSM.

5. You can chase them, I used compressed air and brake cleaner.

6. Motor oil.

[iTurbo]

Thanks!

I'll take all the help I can get guys! I hope to be assembling the reciprocating assembly next weekend. I primer painted it on Saturday and will be doing semi-gloss black as soon as it's fully cured.

44585

[135sohc]

I'm about to start building a 2.2L TIII shortblock with stock pistons/crank/rods. The main bolts are stock, but I'm using new ARP rod bolts. The crank and rods have been fully serviced. I am a total newbie at this, and I'm SICK of procrastinating any longer on this out of fear of failure. I have '91 Chrysler Factory Service Manuals that cover the procedure fairly well. I still have some questions though, since I don't have anybody near me that can walk me through this for the first time. I might be overthinking some of these things, but I just want to be sure.

1. When using Plasicgauge to check rod/main bearing clearance, I assume you need to have the parts very clean and free of any assembly lube. Do I put the strip of Plastigauge on the upper-most portion of the bearing? Do I need to check the clearance at different positions? Does the strip need to cover the full width of the bearing shell? Do I check all main bearing clearances at once or one at a time?

2. I notice there is not a tightening/loosening sequence for the rod and main bolts.. When assembling the main/rod caps, do you just tighten them evenly to seat the caps and do the final torque evenly on both sides? When tightening main caps, should I do I work inward to outward (#3 first, #1 and #5 last)?

Your using ARP rod bolts, follow their directions. The fsm assumes your using factory hardware. For the main caps I like to start with the thrust (center in our case) and work alternately from side-side setting the other caps. Lubricate the cap edges where they register to the block with oil or a light touch of moly lube and dont use the bolts to draw the caps down. Set the caps on and use the bolts as dowels, I use the end of a hammer handle to tap them down, lubricate underneath the bolt heads with motor oil and a light coat of oil on the threads. Torque to spec in stages. After setting each one spinning the crankshaft to ensure theres no binding. During setting the center cap I use a lead hammer to tap the crankshaft fore-aft while spinning it to let it find its happy centering point before torquing those bolts.



3. Can anybody suggest a good assembly lube? The local machine shop says to use 'Lubriplate'..

50/50 mix motor oil and STP blue bottle goo if its going to be run within a short period of time. melling camshaft lube or lucas assembly lube if its sitting for awhile. grease the seals before installing. for bearings and seals. hardware gets a light coat of oil

4. Do I coat the rod/main bolts with motor oil or something else (dry?) Just a thin film to wet the threads or?

factory hardware and torque specs use clean motor oil, light coat and make sure to get the underside of the bolt heads (it does make a difference in torque value)
arp hardware follow their direction

5. Should I chase the rod/main bolts with a die before installation? Should I chase the main threads in the block with a tap? The FSM suggests using a proper size nut and threading it on and back off and ensuring that it threads easily to check for bolt stretch.

If you have a cleaning die/tap then yes for the factory hardware and holes in the block. arp hardware has a different thread profile and last I recall they do not recommend using anything because you'll tear up the threads. A straight edge can be used to check for necking. A regular thread tap/die will cut into the threads. Old headbolts and main bolts make a decent poor mans thread chaser for the headbolt/main bolt holes by cutting 3-4 notches down each one and threading it in-out with lots of brakecleaner.

6. What should I use to oil the cylinder bores for installation of the pistons?

milk jug filled with clean motor oil, piston/rings/rod all assembled together and dip the piston in the oil to submerge it and then tip over to dump the excess oil out of the piston bottom, put on the ring compressor and drive it home. cylinder bores are already dry and wiped clean until the white rag stays white. Some do a light coat of ATF.

I will probably have more questions later. The shortblock in question is actually already assembled by a local machine shop, but it has been stored for a couple years now (in a bag), so I'd like to tear it apart and verify all clearances and also paint the block after I disassemble it.


What I did with my engine rebuild highlighted in blue.

[zin]

Good info there ^. I'll second the chasing of the threads, not the bolts.

All torque specs will be for threads lubed with 30wt motor oil, if you use something else, like the ARP lube, you'll need to go by their specs.

The 50/50 mix is a pretty good substitute for bought assembly lube, and it won't plug up your oil filter like some of the "moly" lubes will.

The big drawback to plastigauge is that you can only check the 12'Oclock position as it can be smeared (changing the reading) if done in a different position. If you're really particular, you'll need a dial bore gauge. Then you can accurately check multiple locations to verify any out-of-round or tapper, just like you'd do for a piston bore.

Big +1 to the cleaning of the bores until the paper towel comes out clean. Some engine builders will go so far as to lap the bores with leather to clean out the micro bits of stone that tend to get left behind. Also, any bits of paper towel will dissolve into the oil and do no harm, shop (cloth) towels are a different story, so be mindful.

Keep things clean, clean, clean. After cleaning with clear/clean solvent, all internal parts should be bagged/covered. It is amazing how much dust finds its way to recently cleaned engine parts!

All this being said, it is amazing how engines will tolerate things not "being right"... In short, don't worry about things not being perfect.

[black86glhs]

Be careful with chasing the threads. If you are out of shape, you can over do it. :p

[trannybuster]

1. If your deglazing and use a dingleberry/stone deglazer, afterwards use a ultra finish hone.
2. Make sure and use some copper rtv on the intake and exhaust studs/bolts..or chance them weeping fluids.
3. The engine is out buy a bore brush and clean with soapy hot water
4. Wipe cylinders down again with atf checking for cleanliness.
5. Coat head gasket with copper spray....
6. Pitch the four piece pan gasket and use only the rubber ends and silicone.
7. Use a torque wrench per fsm whenever possible.
8. Prime the engine even if you use assembly lube.
9. Buy Amsoil ea filters, will clean oil down to 20 microns...plus they last 15,000 miles.
10. I would add a filter relocater and add a second amsoil filter to supplie the turbo...dirty oil is a big killer of turbo's.
11. I just put a nice heavy coat of oil in the bores then isntalled them BUT dipping the entire thing ensures they are coated ie wrist pins....
12. Order some Brad Penn break in oil..it isnt that expensive and it comes loaded with additives to prevent scuffing during fresh engine startups..

---------- Post added at 04:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------

^^More than needed but I added for your next full rebuild :)

[Directconnection]

Plasticgauge at the 12 o'clock position only. (TDC) The housing bores of the mains and rods (bearings not installed) are supposed to be "dead bag" within spec and round and taper-free or no more then .0002" But, you are checking OIL CLEARANCE so that means with the bearings installed. And, if you guys didn't know, the bearings have an egg shape built into them. More clearance at the parting line and that's to help give you that "hydrodynamic wedge" as castrol used to say. If the oil clearance is the same all the way around (totally round) the oil will sorta become stagnant and flow elsewhere.

I recommend doing the Ramsdell thing with grease in the oil pump. You'll notice a "dry" oil pump won't have any resistance, which means it won't suck/draw the oil in and pump it out. Adding oil/grease fills in those voids and makes everything seal well so it will pump right away (well, sorta)

Use the lube the machine shop used when doing your rods and mains, nothing else. If they used a pasty stool... use it! ;-)

[iTurbo]

Thanks Steve and everybody. I really do appreciate the tips and insight.

Steve, when you say to use the Plastigauge at 12 o'clock only (TDC), do you mean the upper most portion of the bearing shell with the block 'upside down' on the engine stand? By TDC, do you mean I should check the rod bearing oil clearance with each one in their respective TDC position?

[iTurbo]

I got the block painted semi-gloss black today and spent several hours getting everything super clean. And this was a fully assembled short block from the machine shop! Everything is now über clean and in separate bags ready for final assembly.

I have a question about the new ARP rod bolts though. I read an article n the Knowledge Center and Frank states that NEW ARP rod bolts need to be tightened and loosened to 50 ft/lbs THREE times prior to final assembly. I can only assume this needs to be done prior to checking the oil clearance with Plastigauge..

So what I'm really wondering is do I need some kind of special ARP lube for the rod bolt threads? Or can I use 30w motor oil like I plan to use for the main bolt threads? Because that is going to suck if I have to order it and have even more downtime.

[black86glhs]

Go to arp's website. They give specs for their molylube and 30 weight oil....IIRC.
To rule out any irregularities, torque all the bolts using the 3 time method and check the bearing clearances after. Simplist way to do it.

[iTurbo]

Thanks Bryan. I found that I actually did have some of the ARP 'Ultra Torque Fastener Lube' on hand. I 'stole' a bit out a packet from a box of ARP head studs I have.

A local friend and I got most of it done tonight. Everything was pretty straightforward and went well. I'm at a bit of a loss on how to a accurately check rod bearing clearance though. It is very difficult to torque the rod caps on without the crank spinning a bit, which smears the Platigauge. And getting the rod cap back off is very difficult as well. Tips?!

[zin]

First, you can always use 30wt when torquing bolts, just use the torque spec for that lube, though the ARP stuff is probably "better" in one way or another.

To hold the crank when plastigauging you could build a lever that attaches to the crank and acts as a stop against the engine stand's "mounting head" OR, just get a couple pieces of nice clean wood to fit in on either side of a counter weight to hold it in place. A little hill-billy, but works and, so long as it's clean should do no harm; like the paper towels, any residual wood will break down in the oil, assuming it's not bits of toothpicks! (Actually that would break down to eventually, but might be big enough to cause other problems in the mean time.

The best way I've found to remove rod caps is a monster size pair of channel lock pliers, just adjust them so the jaws will be parallel to the sides of the cap, and give it a little wiggling motion as you're lifting if they don't just come off, which never seems to happen!

Mike

[iTurbo]

Thanks Mike. I like the wood block idea. As far as I have tried, I've had the best success in removing the caps by using a plastic mallet to tap on the ends of the rod bolts evenly on both sides or just wiggling the cap front/back until it comes loose. I tried the plastic mallet because I'm a little concerned the wiggling motion is messing with the Plastigauge reading.

[zin]

I'd suggest, if you have a spare rod with bolts installed makes a nice tool to tap both of the rod's bolts at the same time, keeping things level as you go, best if you can round the ends of the tool's bolts so they center on the middle of the bolts on the rod and can't damage the threads on the engine's rod bolts.

Mike

[Directconnection]

I have a question about the new ARP rod bolts though. I read an article n the Knowledge Center and Frank states that NEW ARP rod bolts need to be tightened and loosened to 50 ft/lbs THREE times prior to final assembly. I can only assume this needs to be done prior to checking the oil clearance with Plastigauge..

So what I'm really wondering is do I need some kind of special ARP lube for the rod bolt threads? Or can I use 30w motor oil like I plan to use for the main bolt threads? Because that is going to suck if I have to order it and have even more downtime.

The MACHINIST was supposed to torque it 3 times prior to resizing. this makes the cap/rod settle a bit and also stretches the bolt a bit into it's normal range, that's all. They should have done that.... so all you have to do is simply install. And again, only use moly lube if the machinist resized the rods using moly lube. Otherwise, your torque will be different than their's and the housing size will reflect that. I am hoping you had the rods resized when they installed the arps bolts? Use vacuum line on the rod bolts as any contact with the journal always leave a raised burr, which will in return score the bearing the 1st time you turn the crank. I have a couple hundred packets of that arp moly lube. Every time I resized a set of rods at work with arp bolts, if the customer didn't specify arp lube for his assembly work, I kept the packet and we went with our CMD#3 lube insead (it's much more consistent as the moly lube isn't and needs to be mixed REEEALwell)

---------- Post added at 03:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 PM ----------

BTW: I didn't touch my car or motor at all in 1-1/2 years, but yesterday I assembled a 2.2 common block T-II! (yay! I did something TM related ;-) )

[iTurbo]

Steve, you are probably right. The machinist probably did do that, although I can't be totally sure of course. The rods were resized though..

Last weekend a local friend and I attempted to assemble the short block. Wow, what a learning experience! There are so many details and specs to keep track of. We got the crank shaft installed without a problem, but it got significantly more complicated when installing the piston/rods. Checking ring gaps, clocking the rings, making sure the rings are right side up, checking bearing clearance, trying to keep the crank from rotating which smeared the Plastigauge, just so many things to watch out for when you've never done it before. I guess we all gotta start somewhere.

So tonight I partially disassembled it. I wasn't feeling good about a couple of the things we did. I was a little worried that I may have damaged the rings when installing them into the bores with the ring compressor. Thankfully I found that was not the case. I was also worried that my friend had not lubricated the bearing shell in the rod upon final assembly of the cap. Upon disassembly that seemed OK too.. The bearings and rings still appeared to be in perfect shape.

I ended up installing #1 piston/rod myself tonight. I found that it was easier to work myself without anybody around because I could take my time and measure everything at my own pace. I took notes on the ring gaps and bearing clearance. Everything spec-wise is turning out great per the '91 FSM I have. I have found that I should have checked the ring gaps before installing the crank shaft. The FSM says I should push the ring down into the bore about 5/8" of an inch from the bottom. Since I had already installed the crank, I had to check the ring gaps with a feeler gauge through the top. A bit tougher for sure.

Now that I have a good feel for installing the piston/rod combo, I hope to have the other three installed by the weekend and then it's on to everything else (oil pump/pan/pickup, seal housings etc) easy stuff by comparison.

[zin]

Sounds like you'll do fine, especially since you're keeping notes, that really helps you have peace of mind as you go, not allowing yourself to second guess if you did XY or Z, and knowing what the clearances are set to.

Mike

[turbovanman²]

Only thing I can add is lightly oil the cylinders, then use an oil can and lightly oil the piston and rings, too much oil can cause ring issues so I've been told.

I would use ARP special lube and nothing else, make sure you put it under the head, washers etc.

[iTurbo]

Got the short block (and a bunch of other stuff) done today. Hooray, my first rebuilt engine ever! Thanks for all the help and tips everybody.

44965449664496744968

[zin]

Looks great!

Mike

[wheming]

That nipple in the top middle (front of block) that goes into the oil return? What does it attach to?
Just curious because the TIII headgasket blocks that port that would otherwise go to the head.

[iTurbo]

That is where the oil separator box for the TIII PCV setup hooks up to.

[iTurbo]

My friend Travis and I got the car done last night (finally!!). It only took about two seconds of cranking it over and it came back to life. It sounds great! Makes good oil pressure and so far the only leak I still have to fix is a small oil leak coming from the oil drain plug. It appears the nylon washer is cracked causing a drip.

We had it running for about five minutes and were just about to hit the road for break-in when I noticed that the voltage was very low. For some reason the alternator is not charging, so I'll have to look into that today. Sure was nice to hear a TIII purr again, especially since this is my first all-out engine build ever!

[zin]

Great to hear! Taking your time seems to have paid off in the form of a quick start and no mechanical problems.

Hopefully the alternator issue is a quick fix!

Mike

- - - Updated - - -

Great to hear! Taking your time seems to have paid off in the form of a quick start and no mechanical problems.

Hopefully the alternator issue is a quick fix!

Mike

[Directconnection]

Nice! Makes you feel good/proud/knowledgeable/studly, etc....

Seriously, now YOU have experience that not many others do :)

[135sohc]

My friend Travis and I got the car done last night (finally!!). It only took about two seconds of cranking it over and it came back to life. It sounds great! Makes good oil pressure and so far the only leak I still have to fix is a small oil leak coming from the oil drain plug. It appears the nylon washer is cracked causing a drip.

We had it running for about five minutes and were just about to hit the road for break-in when I noticed that the voltage was very low. For some reason the alternator is not charging, so I'll have to look into that today. Sure was nice to hear a TIII purr again, especially since this is my first all-out engine build ever!


Get a new drain plug from the dealer. The rubber washer is built in and it wont ever leak, unless the oil pan is dinged up right there.

[iTurbo]

I got the charging issue fixed today. I removed the alternator this morning and brought it down to NAPA to have bench tested. Sure enough, it was bad. Kind of a bummer because it was a 120 amp ND unit from my Shelby Lancer that I had adapted for TIII use by swapping the pulley, repositioning the pivot sleeve etc... Thankfully I had a good 90 amp ND alternator and once I swapped that in, all was well again.

With the charging issue fixed, my friend Travis and I checked over a bunch of stuff once more and hit the road. Right from the get-go the engine seemed to run great! Sounds beautiful!! I put about 25 miles on it so far with the boost set at a out 10 psi at WOT using a grainger valve MBC. Lots of short WOT pulls and decel...mostly on I-90 bringing her through the gears and then engine braking. I didn't "drive it like I stole it", but definitely gave her a good non-abusive flogging!

I never did see any smoking, although there was a couple times I caught a strange whiff of something. It ran a little hotter than I'd like, but I haven't fully bled the cooling system yet and it's nearly 90'F outside right now. I checked the codes and only got the normal 12 (battery recently disconnected), and 55 (end of codes).

Once again, thanks to all who gave me tips on assembly and words of wisdom. I'm on cloud 9 right now with everything turning out as well as it has and especially after a successful break-in run. This has definitely been a confidence building exercise and I needed it because I have a LOT more 2.2/2.5 engines waiting to be built here. TI/TII/TIII, Masi 16v what will be next hmmmm..

[wheming]

Great job!
And now, enjoy!

[iTurbo]

Thanks! Once the engine cools a bit more, I'm going to change the oil/filter. I'm not going to start it up again until after work tomorrow when I'll retorque the ARP head studs to 85 ft/lbs.

I'm actually selling the car to my friend Travis, so unfortunately I won't get to enjoy it much, although I will appreciate having a nice stack of cash after all the hard work! I have another Spirit R/T to play with so it's just as well I suppose. Way too many turbo Mopars around here!

[turbovanman²]

Wanna sell the 120 alternator?

Easy fix on those, :p

[iTurbo]

The Spirit now has about 45 miles on it. I haven't been able to drive it a whole lot since it was at a shop for a couple days getting a 4-wheel alignment done. I also had to fix a burnt fuse link, and it's now at the exhaust shop getting a bung welded in for the wideband sensor.

I changed the oil after 28 miles. The oil looked very clean and there wasn't anything sticking to the magnetic drain plug. I even held the magnetic plug in the oil stream as it drained out and nothing. After dumping out my oil catch pan (which I had wiped out very clean beforehand), I noticed some very small flecks of metal at the bottom. Not very much though, and the oil didn't seem to have a 'glitter' look to it at all.

Boost is still set at 10 psi for now. Everything seems to be holding up great! How many more miles should be put on the car before oil/filter change #2?

[turbovanman²]

I usually go another 1000-2000 km's then switch to synthetic.