Turbo Mini Van Interior Questions

[jonnyb]

I've been meaning to post this up for a while and today I finally remembered! I have some questions about turbo van interiors (mine is a 90, but feel free to chime in about 89 interiors as well).

First question I have is: Did any of them come with a tach? I had an 89 voyager turbo and I could have sworn the instrument cluster was different and that it had a tach. My 90 van has a speedo in the large pod on the left and the gas gauge in the large pod on the right. I thought my old van had a tach where the gas gauge is, and that the gas gauge was in the lower right hand side small pod (90 van has a fasten seatbelt idiot light in that small pod). I looked at pics of my old van and didn't have any of the cluster.

Second question: The crotch vent...LOL! My old van had a lever for a vent that targeted air right at the drivers crotch (affectionately referred to me as the "balls vent" when I owned the van...LOL!). My new van does not have a vent there. Was that vent an 89 only thing, or was it just an option that my 90 doesn't have?

Last question and most interesting: Can the folks out there with turbo minivans take a look at the steering wheel and let me know if it's off center compared to the drivers seat and gauge cluster?

I drove my van for over a year and never noticed this (never noticed it on my 89 van either), but my girlfriend borrowed the van a few months back and immediately called me after she left my house. She said "How do you drive this thing? The steering wheel is so off center!" I told her she was crazy and that I had never noticed that. However, when she brought the van back, I took a look and sure enough - the steering wheel seems like it is about an inch to right of the center of gauge cluster, and that the center-line of the seat is about 2 inches left of the center of the gauge cluster. This puts the center of the seat 3 inches off center from the center of the steering wheel!

Was my van put together wrong and is it possible I could correct this by loosening the seat and trying to move it a bit and also loosening the steering column and move that a bit the opposite way? Or were all van's built like this and it's just another Mopar cheapo nuance that I should live with...LOL?!?!?!

Thanks!

Jon

[Rrider]

They came both with and without the tach depending on options. The balls vent was available both years.

Some brand new cars have off center steering wheels, I think its pretty common. I noticed it in a new Sienna, but haven't really noticed it in the old Voyager.

[Rrider]

I swapped a minivan tach cluster to my mini that did not come with one. I'm not clear on which, if any, non-minivan clusters fit.. the car ones do look similar, but maybe they are too small.

[RoadWarrior222]

If I can get into my storage shed on the weekend, I'll see what I've got cluster wise. I know I had one out of the '89 I scrapped, but forgot what's left.

[Johnny]

Right, the tach was an option. But if you find one, it is an easy replacement.
The "balls" vent, same thing some of my vans had it others did not.
(I have had about 9 or 10)
Never noticed the steering wheel being off center.
LOOK under there and see if its bolted up correctly. Maybe someone did it wrong.

[Rrider]

Do any of the car clusters fit the minis??

[Johnny]

Not a direct fit...van fits van. But I guess any mod is possible.

[moparman76_69]

I'm pretty sure you'll need a '90 cluster for a '90 van. I know I swapped a tach cluster into mine, but it was an '89 into '89 thing. On my '88 dakota I tried a later cluster and the plugs would fit, but the pinout was different, none of the gauges worked correctly.

[jonnyb]

Thanks for the info!

So you don't have to add any wires to add a tach cluster? I'd definitely like to swap in a tach module. Anyone have a 90 tach cluster with around 109K on the odometer...LOL?!?!

So far it doesn't sound like anyone has noticed a misalignment issue with the steering wheel so maybe it's just my van. I'll take a look at the steering column and seat alignment/adjustment and see what I find.

Jon

[RoadWarrior222]

I'm pretty sure you'll need a '90 cluster for a '90 van. I know I swapped a tach cluster into mine, but it was an '89 into '89 thing. On my '88 dakota I tried a later cluster and the plugs would fit, but the pinout was different, none of the gauges worked correctly.Yah speedo is electronic on 90, cable drive on 89, so not everything works for a direct swap, not sure what works for mix and match.

[Rrider]

My 90 was cable. Everything swapped from 89 and worked except the dummy light to temp needle change. Needle doesn't move.

[moparman76_69]

Yeah some stuff changed to electronic speedo later than others, but I'm pretty sure they changed the cluster pinouts during the SMEC-SBEC changeover, some functions may work, others may not, YMMV.

[jonnyb]

I just took a look on ebay - a ton of these available, but not many with tach. I did find one that says it's from a 90 with tach and 108K so I asked for a picture.

Question: some of the ones I saw showed OD (the D with an O around it), D and L, where others showed D, 2, 1 in the gear selector spot - do you think the OD ones would have less of a chance of working correctly because they were from a V6 car with overdrive?

Jon

[shackwrrr]

I just took a look on ebay - a ton of these available, but not many with tach. I did find one that says it's from a 90 with tach and 108K so I asked for a picture.

Question: some of the ones I saw showed OD (the D with an O around it), D and L, where others showed D, 2, 1 in the gear selector spot - do you think the OD ones would have less of a chance of working correctly because they were from a V6 car with overdrive?

Jon

Prnd12 box transfers from your current cluster. I think its 2 screws.

[jonnyb]

cool - thanks.

I got the pic and it had the tach and almost the same mileage as mine! So I just went ahead and bought it.

I'll mess with the steering column and seat when I get the cluster and install it.

[2.216VTurbo]

Woody(89 SE) had the speedo/giant fuel gauge cluster so swapping one for a tach cluster was one of my first mods Everything works but it did trip a maintenance req'd light:o I hate the feel of a cheesy plastic steering wheel so a nice 94 red interior LeBaron gave up it's airbag leather wrapped wheel as well as it's lighted (with dimmers:thumb:) vanity mirrors (careful,they're shorter than van visors and need one hole drilled per side)

BTW JohnnyB how about some pics in the 'Show off your Mini' thread??:eyebrows:

[jonnyb]

There's a whole thread on the van and you even commented in the thread: http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?58455-Cross-Country-Voyage%28r%29...LOL!&highlight=van+cross+country :thumb:

Two years and 20,000 miles later and the van is still going strong and is still pretty clean underneath (lotsa quarters at the carwash in the winter...LOL!), but the mpg has dropped down to 19mpg. I'm pretty sure the torque converter is shot and now the trans is starting to miss when it's cold. It usually happens if the van is cold and I give it gas after coasting downhill. Sometime it happens on upshifts from 3 to 2 when its cold as well.

That's one of the reasons I wanted the tach cluster - so I could see just how bad the tc is slipping. I used to punch it on the highway and get up to 95-100 pretty easily. Now when I punch it the engine just revs, but the van doesn't go anywhere. Guess the 100K mile tc doesn't like instant grainger valve 11 psi of boost..LOL!

So I'm planning on building something for it this Summer and I'll add it to the mini thread once I get the new setup in.

I'm shooting for reliability and mpg so I'm not going to go too crazy. I've got a good stock 2.5 bottom end that I'm going to put my mildly ported head (stock valves)/super60 turbo/tu 3 inch swingvalve/3 inch downpipe combo onto. My plan is to run 12 psi for daily use and use cruise to control high boost mode of about 18 psi. I'm also hoping to use the lockup code that Rob put into TSBEC and use a lockup tc (hopefully find a way to disable lockup completely if cruise switch is in high boost mode).

Anyone have any recommendations for a good lockup tc vendor? From what I've been reading, no one makes a heavy duty lockup clutch so that's why I'm hoping I can use Rob's code and protect the lockup.

Jon

[RoadWarrior222]

Well if you've not changed out the fluid and filter, change out the fluid and filter.

[2.216VTurbo]

Yep, I remember the thread because you and Gary M both grabbed CA turbo Minis at the same time:eyebrows: though you included lots pics of rocks and land formations:D you kinda cheated us on Mini pics. Also, in the show off your Mini thread, I'd hoped there would be an all-in-one-place for turbo Minis. So wash it, vacuum out the dust and put up some pics in the thread:) Then, after your new mods,give us the after pics:thumb:

[jonnyb]

Well if you've not changed out the fluid and filter, change out the fluid and filter.

Been there, done that - didn't help.


you included lots pics of rocks and land formations:D you kinda cheated us on Mini pics.

I'm surprised you saw it at all in those pics...damn - that was whole reason I wanted brown - invisible stealth mode...LOL!


So wash it, vacuum out the dust and put up some pics in the thread:) Then, after your new mods,give us the after pics:thumb:

Snow tomorrow and Sunday so I'm not going to wash it to have it covered with salt sludge crap tomorrow. Just about the time 'the show us your minivan' thread is dying off, I'll renew it with pics of Charlie Brownvan in all his glory...LOL!

[jonnyb]

Ah, what the heck - this is the 'Interior Restoration Area' - here's a couple pics of the headliner/visor/console resto:

Here's what it looked like when I bought the van:
4413344134

Here's the removal - probably the hardest headliner I've done (besides maybe a spirit RT):
4413544136

Console recover:
4413744138

Here's the headliner with new material on it:
44139

Visor recover (couldn't figure out how to get mirror flap apart, so they stayed stock):
4414044141

And here it is all back together:
4414244143

The next set of exterior and engine resto will go in the minivan thread :thumb:

Jon

[RoadWarrior222]

Here's the removal - probably the hardest headliner I've done (besides maybe a spirit RT):

Any tips? mine has to get done

[Johnny]

I want to know too, how to get the whole headliner board out without breaking anything.

Nice job by the way!!!

[wheming]

Looking good Jon!

[jonnyb]

The headliner backing on this one had the same crappy material that my 91 Spirit RT had. Instead of the cardboard/pegboard backing like all the P/L/G headliners I've done, these are some kind of fiberglass-like board. This style bends more easily without breaking, so that's good for removal/install, but it's a lot tougher to restore/recover than the cardboard ones. On the cardboard ones, you can wire brush off the old glue and spray it pretty hard with compressed air without damaging it. These start to fall apart just trying to remove the old lining material.

I guess this job wouldn't be as difficult if you had two people. Just the sheer bulk of it makes it hard for one person to remove and install without messing up the new headliner.

Basically it removes like any car headliner - just start at the front with the visors, then take the top screws off the A pillar moldings, remove the two center door trim pieces and the center console (console just slides out - no screws - takes a pretty good yank to get it), then remove the door slider track cover and remove all the screws for the two top side panels (the back panels are two piece - remove the entire top pieces from both sides), and lastly pry the top of the B pillar molding away from the rubber molding (this gives room to slide the headliner).

Now is the tricky part - you have to try to push the headliner left to get it out from under the slider track. Once you get it out from there, you can start to slide it back out of the van. Basically, with the tops of the back panel out of the way, you only have to get front of the headliner out past the slider door track and then the headliner is out!

Reinstall is reverse.

Again, if you had two people, one could hold it up and work it from the back while the other one could feed it in between the slider track so that would probably make the job a lot easier.

---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 PM ----------


Looking good Jon!

Thanks! Did you ever see if you have those spare window scrapers? I really could use a set.

[RoadWarrior222]

That's a great mini howto, thanks!

[wheming]

Or......
You could just have a headliner like Mean Mini....
Think of all the weight you save! :D
44145

[jonnyb]

Well, I got the new gauge cluster on Friday and installed it yesterday. I also tried getting the steering wheel and seat centered, but had no luck. The steering wheel moved about a half an inch to the left so it's close now, but the seat had zero side to side movement so that's still about 2 inches to the left of center. Here's a pic of the new cluster installed (you can see how the steering wheel is only about a half an inch off center) and a pic of the horrible seat alignment (take a look at the centerline of the seat compared to the steering wheel!):

4428744288

Anyway, after I got the cluster installed I took the van for a nice ride and OH MY GOODNESS what a difference having a tach makes at troubleshooting! It definitely looks like the torque converter is on it's way out - it stalls to about 3600-3700 RPM. That's actually not as bad as I thought and if I keep it out of boost and only give it light throttle on the highway it seems like I can keep it from stalling up too bad. Anything over 5psi of boost though - forget about it - the tach goes right to 3600.

Here's the real kicker though - I always thought the transmission didn't want to shift from 1-2 under full throttle and that it was hitting rev limiter and falling on its face when it didn't shift. So I figured that there was something wrong with an adjustment somewhere, but I had tried all the possible adjustments and nothing helped. Well, with the tach, I could easily see that the van was falling on its face at like 4200 RPM - a classic case of the timing belt being off tooth! So I checked, and sure enough, the cam was off a tooth. I popped the belt off and moved the cam one tooth, and BINGO! - van runs like a champ now! Two years and 20K miles of having no top end and not being able to floor it without it falling on its face, and now I finally have a fun van...LOL!!!

Jon

[2.216VTurbo]

You want it to be really fun, put a good high flow exhaust on it and a decent FMIC, then Grainger it to 12PSI:thumb: I just last week found a better tach cluster,original Jyard replacement had 354K miles on it:confused: this new one has 'only' 132K so it's actually really close to actual miles:) One thing I noticed that's the same as your new one is that all the gauge needles have the orange faded out of them except then alt needle for some reason. Maybe it's a different material?

[jonnyb]

You want it to be really fun, put a good high flow exhaust on it and a decent FMIC, then Grainger it to 12PSI:thumb: I just last week found a better tach cluster,original Jyard replacement had 354K miles on it:confused: this new one has 'only' 132K so it's actually really close to actual miles:) One thing I noticed that's the same as your new one is that all the gauge needles have the orange faded out of them except then alt needle for some reason. Maybe it's a different material?

FMIC and only grainger it to 12psi? Pssshhh...that's no fun...LOL! I already have a free flow exhaust and the grainger is set at 11psi with NO FMIC! Definitely a bit leaner now that it can actually rev to 5500 (LOL), but still looks plenty safe on the a/f meter. I almost went ahead and plumbed one of my spare intercoolers into the van yesterday, but then decided not to do a cheezy installation and instead wait for when I hopefully pull out the drivetrain and put something more fun in later this summer :thumb:

For the alt gauge thing, my original non-tach cluster's voltage gauge is faded too so it doesn't seem to be specific to all of them.

Jon

[wheming]

Nice work Jon.
I've always liked having full gauges as opposed to little or none. I usually shop for one like that.
And good find on the timing belt.
Sounds more fun now for sure.

[Rrider]

I'm going to have to do the mean mini treatment to my vans headliners.. so much labor to do the whole thing!

I have another mini interior question.. where do I get an adapter for my grant steering wheel? I looked at the Autozone and Pepboyz last time I was there and nada..

[wheming]

Maybe JC Whitney still have them?
I had bought some from them years ago.