1993 dodge shadow 2.2l non-turbo

[billdish82]

I own a 1993 dodge shadow with the 2.2l non-turbo engine. I am in the process of replacing the head and a few other odds and ends. The engine was running as fine as it could at 160k miles until one stupid night. Since then it has been overheating. I started by changing the thermostat and flushing the coolant system with a garden hose. Re-filled the system installed the thermostat and new gasket but it still overheated. I was able to drive it and keep the temp down just by pumping the gas a little to force the thermostat open. Then one evening I had company in the car and wasnt paying close attention and it got WAY too hot. Stuck at high temp, so I shut her down and waited for it to cool off. She never came back though, always got real hot real quick after that on test runs. No coolant in the oil, no oil in the coolant etc. Couldn't drive it so I decided it was time to find out what was wrong. Right now it is in slow assembly in the garage. I have a full-time plus job a wife thats in school and works full-time and a two month old that take up most of my time, but I try to sneak out to the garage of bring stuff inside whenever possible. Needless to say it is slow going. Comment if you have any suggestions or questions.

[135sohc]

Did you drill a bleed hole in the t-stat or open the purge port on the top of the t-stat housing ? Any history on the waterpump/radiator (are they both original or really high miles?)

[cordes]

A quick compression test would reveal if you blew the head gasket.

[billdish82]

Got it torn down, definately blew a head gasket and the head is cracked between the valves and between the oil and coolant passages. I have pictures but am not sure how to post them. do I need to use something like photo bucket?

[cordes]

You can use phtotobucket and link the pics.

The cracks in between the valves are not an issue, but the others may be.

[billdish82]

is there a way to link to the whole album? there are 49 pictures in the album.

---------- Post added at 01:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:33 PM ----------


Did you drill a bleed hole in the t-stat or open the purge port on the top of the t-stat housing ? Any history on the waterpump/radiator (are they both original or really high miles?)
The purge port was an allen head and it is stripped. I am finished putting a used head back on now. the new one had a sensor in the top and I used it to bleed out the air. turns out the coolant system had an air bubble up against the thermostat that was not allowing it to sense the temp and open. I did put in a new water pump while I was in there just to be sure.

---------- Post added at 01:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 PM ----------

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/billdish82/1993 Dodge Shadow/IMAG0570_zpsb4d6185e.jpg
here is the old head

[cordes]

I can't seem to view the other photos.

[billdish82]

http://s1299.beta.photobucket.com/user/billdish82/story/26187


Here is the link to the "story" that contains all the photos. Pardon my newbie mistakes. Can anyone tell me the best way to post large numbers of pictures or link to them with a header photo???

[cordes]

http://s1299.beta.photobucket.com/user/billdish82/story/26187


Here is the link to the "story" that contains all the photos. Pardon my newbie mistakes. Can anyone tell me the best way to post large numbers of pictures or link to them with a header photo???

You could just post links to the hi-res versions of your pictures.

[135sohc]

Cylinder bores look good. Decent amount of cross hatching still showing. I'll be curious to see how the engine responds to a bathtub cylinder head in place of the original swirl head.

[billdish82]

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/billdish82/1993%20Dodge%20Shadow/IMAG0565_zps3b1430be.jpg
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http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/billdish82/1993%20Dodge%20Shadow/IMAG0589_zps7526ef8c.jpg

[billdish82]

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/billdish82/1993%20Dodge%20Shadow/IMAG0590_zps0ceeb0a4.jpg
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---------- Post added at 09:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 AM ----------

So it's a lot of photos I know, and I should go through them and delete the fuzzy ones. But hey I'm a newb and this is my first post so take it easy :-) I am having an interesting time with the donor heads and I'm not sure if I need to tune on it a little or what, but more to come on that after I get the wifes garage stall cleaned out so she will stop crying about having to dust a little snow off her car in the am. lol

[cordes]

I too will be interested to see how the G head does. You should be able to up the timing some, perhaps out of necessity.

[TurboTurismo]

Turbo Time Turbo Time...

[billdish82]

The car is now up and running! It has a bit of a pulsing to the engine though. The timing is dead on spec, can or should I play with it a bit? If so do I adjust the cam AND intermediary or adjust it at the crank?

[cordes]

The car is now up and running! It has a bit of a pulsing to the engine though. The timing is dead on spec, can or should I play with it a bit? If so do I adjust the cam AND intermediary or adjust it at the crank?

You should not adjust the cam timing from stock. The ignition timing you may decide to play with after you've driven it a bit. I'm willing to bet that you could bump it up a bit due to the lower compression of the G head.

[billdish82]

Turbo Time Turbo Time...
So when I decide to upgrade to a turbo can I simply buy a set of headers with the stock turbo on them and bolt them up? If so what else will be affected by doing so?

Cordes, by "up the timing" do you mean that I should move the intermediary one tooth to make it spark SOONER or LATER?

Also as of right now the engine seems to lack power in the lower end of the rpms.

[cordes]

Yes, you can get the stock parts to convert it to turbo if you want. If you pick a car over in the yard really well it shouldn't be too hard of a swap. The biggest issue would be that the cars compression will be a bit off since you're running the non-turbo pistons with the G head. You would have to run low boost but it has been done.

To increase the ignition timing you rotate the distributor counter clockwise. You don't adjust the ignition timing anywhere on the timing belt side of things. You'll need a timing light and a 13mm wrench.

[billdish82]

Yes, you can get the stock parts to convert it to turbo if you want. If you pick a car over in the yard really well it shouldn't be too hard of a swap. The biggest issue would be that the cars compression will be a bit off since you're running the non-turbo pistons with the G head. You would have to run low boost but it has been done.
To increase the ignition timing you rotate the distributor counter clockwise. You don't adjust the ignition timing anywhere on the timing belt side of things. You'll need a timing light and a 13mm wrench.

So if the picture in my head serves me right rotating the distributor counter clockwise will make it fire sooner??
As far as adding a turbo to the g-head, is it a compression issue that makes me have to run low boost or the non-turbo pistons?
I have the rest of the engine that the g-head came off, but my uncle had it decked 40 thousandths and replaced all wear components in the bottom end (see pic below).
http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/billdish82/1993%20Dodge%20Shadow/IMAG0602_zps33dc56cd.jpg
I could possibly swap this block in but he said that my stock computer would not know how to handle it. He also stated that I would be required to run premium fuel with it. He originally built the engine up to Shelby spec about 8 years ago. From what little I've read the computer can be flashed and I can replace the injector to compensate. Does this sound right to everyone? Any resources out there you guys can point me towards?
THANK YOU!!!!!

[cordes]

OK, lots going on here now that I know you have a spare short block in known good condition.

1. Yes, rotating the dist counter clockwise will advance the spark. You'll need to hook up a test light and unhook the coolant temp sensor when you set the timing. Stock is 12*. Each hash mark on the bell housing of the trans represents 2* and the first hash on the left is 0*.

2. I would need to do the math on it, but your compression has certainly dropped going from the stock 782 "fast burn" cylinder head to the 287 "G" or "bathtub" head. How much boost you could run with a given octane should you eventually turbocharge the car would depend largely on what the compression is at now.

3. If the spare block you have is modified to bring the compression to what the NA HO motors were at then premium would be recommended, but with a custom cal and mild timing I'm betting that you could get away with regular so long as you stay EFI.

[billdish82]

I'm letting a lot of info soak in. I read the write up by Russ knize about heads and gaskets and a couple posts that you commented on about the different head/block combo's. I have a good screw in compression tester and hopefully in the next couple days the wife and kid will let me escape long enough to test the cylinders and find/buy a timing light. In the mean time, its time to head home from work for the night and do the whole sunday dinner thing with her family>>>:amen:lol

[cordes]

OK, that sounds good. If you haven't timed the motor yet it probably will run like crap so that's normal. Keep us updated.

[billdish82]

Okay, picked up a timing light today and hopefully will be able to throw it on tomorrow. It's my first time using one. Besides making sure to unplug the sensor to get it to base time, is there anything I need to know or do before I start?

[cordes]

Okay, picked up a timing light today and hopefully will be able to throw it on tomorrow. It's my first time using one. Besides making sure to unplug the sensor to get it to base time, is there anything I need to know or do before I start?

Not really as it's pretty straight forward. The fan will kick on and stay on when the CTS is unplugged so make sure you and your belongings are clear of it. The car may die and not want to run depending on where the timing is initially. If you advance it a bit it should stay running for you to set the actual timing.

[billdish82]

Okay the wife n kiddo finally let me loose for a couple hours and I adjusted the timing to 14*. The car was all the way down to 8* or so! It has its low end power back and is quick to get going again. Thank you to everyone that helped me out with this, especially Cordes! :-) Next on my list for the evening is to clean up my mess so she can park in her garage stall again. Maybe I can even adjust the idle tonight. I just read up in the knowledge center on how to do it. Only one thing missing, no tach on the car :-( guess maybe I'll just ear it and hope it turns out well. I figure if I get it wrong I can always adjust it back.a little.

[cordes]

It is possible to check the RPMs with many digital multimeters so if you have one that may be a possibility.

[RoadWarrior222]

You can maybe earball it better by searching "900rpm idle" on youtube and comparing.

---------- Post added at 07:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------

Or actually you might be able to get an app for an android that tells you from the sound.

---------- Post added at 07:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 PM ----------

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.javiery.rpmgauge&feature=search_result

[billdish82]

Well the baby is finally asleep. dont think I will make it out to tinker tonight, but just installed an app similar to "acoustic tachometer (RPM)" called "RPM Tachometer & Shift Light". I chose this on b/c it had better reviews. I may make it out to the garage to try it out tonight. It would be nice. I'll try both and give my review on here when I do.
Well they both kind of work, but I do like the rpm tach and shift one better. It did not have an option for any 2.2 or 2.5 except for a pt cruiser 2.2 crd. Seemed to work best from inside the car. I'm not sure if this is because I was in a garage and the echo was throwing it off. I will experiment with it more tomorrow.

[billdish82]

The car is idling at 888rpm according to the app on my phone. I do have a concern right now about a "stumbling" at idle. when sitting at idle the motor almost seems to miss or something and this causes it to rock in the mounts. I just put a tank of gas into it and I plan on watching it and seeing what my mileage is now with the advance in timing and the new head. Is there anything I should check right off the bat that might cause this? I may have a bunch of parts that I will be selling once I'm sure the car is running properly. If there is anyone out there that could help with pricing I might be able to give them first pick and or some free stuff in exchange.

[cordes]

I would make sure all of the vacuum lines are in good order. If the issue persists I might try bypassing the baro read solenoid as they are known to stick or fail after many years. If you need help pricing stuff just shoot me a PM when you're ready and I'll give my .02.

[RoadWarrior222]

Too much plug gap will make idle a little rough, as will dirty plugs, as will marginal wires, dirty/damp diz cap, rotor, etc

[billdish82]

I'm beginning to think its just too cold here (5* this morning)!!! I took the car for a good hours solid drive yesterday and it seems to be smoothing off. The plugs, wires, cap and rotor are all new with the head swap. I may not like to spend alot of money, but I do try and cover all my bases when taking on a large project like this! I am thinking about building up this other block that is now just sitting here staring at me and crying out for me to pump some life into it.
http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/billdish82/1993%20Dodge%20Shadow/IMAG0602_zps33dc56cd.jpg
I guess I will be in the market for a turbo intake/exhaust to drop onto it. It has all new wear parts and new pistons in the bottom end. I would like to get ahold of a swirl head for it. What type of compression would I be looking at and what boost capabilities? the block is decked 40 thousandths and Im not sure of the origin of the pistons but could find out in the next couple days. If I do this I want to make it a good looking engine. What would be the best way to clean up the block and the proper type of paint to use on it?

[crusty shadow]

i would not reccomend running a turbo on that short block.

those are N/A pistons which will give you a higher compression ratio than the turbo pistons, plus the fact that you said your uncle had the block decked 40 thou it would be even worse- detonation city!
also you would really need to find out if it has the lightweight rods in it. LW rods+ N/A pistons + 40 thou off the deck = disaster waiting to happen.

you would be MUCH better off getting ahold of a turbo engine and working with that.

in an N/A application that short block would be just fine, and with the increased compression from being decked it would have a little more zip than a standard 2.2 N/A

[billdish82]

i would not reccomend running a turbo on that short block.

those are N/A pistons which will give you a higher compression ratio than the turbo pistons, plus the fact that you said your uncle had the block decked 40 thou it would be even worse- detonation city!
also you would really need to find out if it has the lightweight rods in it. LW rods+ N/A pistons + 40 thou off the deck = disaster waiting to happen.

you would be MUCH better off getting ahold of a turbo engine and working with that.

in an N/A application that short block would be just fine, and with the increased compression from being decked it would have a little more zip than a standard 2.2 N/A

So what are N/A pistons and how are they different? Why exactly does detonation occur? Is it because of the high compression causing the fuel/air to burn more rapidly? So if I stick with the non-turbo set-up and a swirl head what type of compression would you guess I would be looking at? In what way do the lightweight rods affect the engine? With it being decked and putting a swirl head on it do I need to worry about making it into an interference engine? So many questions I know but I am really eager to learn more about this engine and what can be done with it. Have you looked at the pics of the old swirl head? What is everyones opinion of how bad the damage is? Think it might be salvageable or should I pursue a re-man or scrap-yard one?

THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR POSTING!!!!!!

[cordes]

From the pics I saw the swirl head didn't look bad, but the real test would be to see how flat it is. A swirl head on that block would bump up the already high compression. While it would make good power for an NA car it'll be nothing like even a basic turbo setup. However, it would be a lot more simple to do and more cost effective.

Check out Gary D.'s site for info about turbocharging these cars. Some of the info is a little outdated now, but most of it is still very relevant. '


http://www.thedodgegarage.com

[billdish82]

Here is a photo of the numbers on the block that I want to build up.

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/billdish82/1993%20Dodge%20Shadow/IMAG0622_zpsa0de113b.jpg

[billdish82]

From the pics I saw the swirl head didn't look bad, but the real test would be to see how flat it is. A swirl head on that block would bump up the already high compression. While it would make good power for an NA car it'll be nothing like even a basic turbo setup. However, it would be a lot more simple to do and more cost effective.

Check out Gary D.'s site for info about turbocharging these cars. Some of the info is a little outdated now, but most of it is still very relevant. '


http://www.thedodgegarage.com

Thanks for the link Gary D's site is awesome for info. Not much I could find on converting a non-turbo to a turbo though. I'm guessing that is for a reason though, Me thinks that it may be time to sell what I have and start with a turbo block and build it!

[cordes]

Thanks for the link Gary D's site is awesome for info. Not much I could find on converting a non-turbo to a turbo though. I'm guessing that is for a reason though, Me thinks that it may be time to sell what I have and start with a turbo block and build it!

Yeah, at the time Gary built the site it would have been much cheaper and easier to buy a nice clean turbo car than to convert. Now it seems like if you have a car with a clean body it's just as easy to convert it over as to find a clean turbo model and pay real money for it.

---------- Post added at 02:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 PM ----------

on the RPM with a multimeter front you can pick up this one for $40 and it'll read RPMs. There may be others that'll do the same for cheaper. You could also use the Hz function if the one you already have has one to do some calculations.

http://www.actron.com/publish/2004/06/07/pdf_english_16155.pdf

[crusty shadow]

the block that you have there is a pre-1989 block, otherwise known as a non-common block. all of the engine acessories such as water pump, crank sprocket, oil pan, etc are different, you would have to use the 1988 and down accesories to use that block. 1989 up is the common block. its beefier than the early style block and all your engine accessories will bolt right up.

i am actually using the original N/A block in my 94 shadow for my turbo build. the only difference between the turbo and non turbo blocks is the turbo block has a hole drilled for the oil return for the turbo.

if you cant find an 89 up turbo engine all you need is a set of TII rods and turbo pistons along with an oil drain for the turbo. same thing basically.