Will 89 11" brakes work on a 1994?

[Daytana]

Hi, I have a 1994 3.0L V6 Lebaron with front disc and rear drum brakes. I want to upgrade to disc brakes all around and changed my mind to actually use a 11" big brake setup all around. My question is will the 89' stuff work on my 94' Lebaron? Thanks in advance.

[85boostbox]

Yes it will. Just have to have the prop valve and the larger master cylinder

[cordes]

What would be even easier is to run the later big brakes. You'll just need the caliper brackets for the front, not the whole knuckle which will be nice.

[turbovanman²]

Hi, I have a 1994 3.0L V6 Lebaron with front disc and rear drum brakes. I want to upgrade to disc brakes all around and changed my mind to actually use a 11" big brake setup all around. My question is will the 89' stuff work on my 94' Lebaron? Thanks in advance.

Yes and no, the calipers will not fit without swapping the knuckles but it kinda mess's up the geometery a little bit. As Cordes said, its easier on 94's as you simply buy new calipers for the 11" setup and buy the adapter brackets, use the 89's rotors and bingo, you have 11" brakes.

[John B]

As Cordes said, its easier on 94's as you simply buy new calipers for the 11" setup and buy the adapter brackets, use the 89's rotors and bingo, you have 11" brakes.

Are '91s like the '94s? I really want better brakes when I move to Colorado.

[MILKCARTON]

When are you moving here, you have been saying that for a while now

[turbovanman²]

Are '91s like the '94s? I really want better brakes when I move to Colorado.

Yes, 91+ are all interchangeable, :nod:

[Daytana]

Yes and no, the calipers will not fit without swapping the knuckles but it kinda mess's up the geometery a little bit. As Cordes said, its easier on 94's as you simply buy new calipers for the 11" setup and buy the adapter brackets, use the 89's rotors and bingo, you have 11" brakes.

Hmm I might do that instead. Question though, if I wanted to could I just swap the rear 11" vented setup on the rear and keep my stock fronts? (Granted I swap the master and prop of course). I know it would be kinda oddball to have bigger brakes on the rear than front but these K-car sized drum brakes are overwhelmed for a 170ish HP 3.0L (Around TII power levels) Lebaron. Thanks again.

[rbryant]

Hmm I might do that instead. Question though, if I wanted to could I just swap the rear 11" vented setup on the rear and keep my stock fronts? (Granted I swap the master and prop of course). I know it would be kinda oddball to have bigger brakes on the rear than front but these K-car sized drum brakes are overwhelmed for a 170ish HP 3.0L (Around TII power levels) Lebaron. Thanks again.

Bad idea to put the big rear brakes on with small fronts.

People have done it, people have had problems with rear brakes locking up.

The 89 fronts will work fine they just hurt control arm angle compared to the 91+ which is only an issue if you are lowering the car. So I wouldn't say it "messes up" geometry, it simply gives you the control arm geometry of an '89 car instead of a '91+ car.

The other minor thing is that the 91+ knuckles and cast arms have a steering stop on them when used together. If you use the 89 knuckles with the 91+ arms then the stop is removed and the stop will likely then be your tire against the transmission (which happens on the older cars anyway).

-Rich

[Daytana]

Bad idea to put the big rear brakes on with small fronts.

People have done it, people have had problems with rear brakes locking up.

The 89 fronts will work fine they just hurt control arm angle compared to the 91+ which is only an issue if you are lowering the car. So I wouldn't say it "messes up" geometry, it simply gives you the control arm geometry of an '89 car instead of a '91+ car.

The other minor thing is that the 91+ knuckles and cast arms have a steering stop on them when used together. If you use the 89 knuckles with the 91+ arms then the stop is removed and the stop will likely then be your tire against the transmission (which happens on the older cars anyway).

-Rich

Ok thanks. I think I will just stick with my 91+ knuckle setup to avoid these hassles (I might want to lower the car someday). Anyone have a solid disc setup of a Shadow or something lol? Anything would be better than these miserable drums. :yuck:

[rbryant]

Ok thanks. I think I will just stick with my 91+ knuckle setup to avoid these hassles (I might want to lower the car someday). Anyone have a solid disc setup of a Shadow or something lol? Anything would be better than these miserable drums. :yuck:

That is an easier swap anyway... As someone mentioned above you can buy the calipers and brackets for the 11" 91 stuff and bolt them on to your car without removing the knuckle. It also saves an alignment. There are also more brake pad options for the 91+ stuff and all of the parts are a dime a dozen. The only downside is that they do weigh more than the 89 11" fronts.

For the rear I like the solid rear discs better anyway. There are more rotor options, different sized calipers available, etc (once agian parts are a dime a dozen). Check my KC article on rear discs.

-Rich

[Daytana]

That is an easier swap anyway... As someone mentioned above you can buy the calipers and brackets for the 11" 91 stuff and bolt them on to your car without removing the knuckle. It also saves an alignment. There are also more brake pad options for the 91+ stuff and all of the parts are a dime a dozen. The only downside is that they do weigh more than the 89 11" fronts.

For the rear I like the solid rear discs better anyway. There are more rotor options, different sized calipers available, etc (once agian parts are a dime a dozen). Check my KC article on rear discs.

-Rich

Yeah I like the solids since you can run Neon pads (more pad options like you mentioned). Where is the link to your article located? I'll check it out.

[rbryant]

Yeah I like the solids since you can run Neon pads (more pad options like you mentioned). Where is the link to your article located? I'll check it out.

Actually all of the solid/vented/neon/stratus/intrepid rear pads are the same....

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/knowledge.php?title=Brake-and-Wheel-Systems:Rear-Disc-Brake-Options

-Rich

[Daytana]

Actually all of the solid/vented/neon/stratus/intrepid rear pads are the same....

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/knowledge.php?title=Brake-and-Wheel-Systems:Rear-Disc-Brake-Options

-Rich

Did not know that, thanks. Good tech info on brakes, thanks again.

[John B]

When are you moving here, you have been saying that for a while now

As soon as the contract ends here. We keep getting six month extensions. The government can't get their act together (what a shocker).

[RoadWarrior222]

Gah, you never can tell if they are that bad at planning, or it just looks politically bad for someone high up to sign off on a 5 year expenditure...

[BlueShadow]

Just my 0.02..
I swapped 89 11" front and rear onto my 94 shadow which orig had rear drums. Changed the prop valve but didn't change the master and it feels fine. May want to see for yourself before going to the trouble of changing out the master cylinder..

[Daytana]

Just my 0.02..
I swapped 89 11" front and rear onto my 94 shadow which orig had rear drums. Changed the prop valve but didn't change the master and it feels fine. May want to see for yourself before going to the trouble of changing out the master cylinder..

I thought the drum master did not have enough volume to compensate for the disc pistons?

[cordes]

I thought the drum master did not have enough volume to compensate for the disc pistons?

In my experience you'll have to use all of the pedal travel to get decent stopping. There is a reason the factory went with a larger MC.

[Vigo]

A few clarifications:

On a 94 you MAY not have to replace the calipers. Look at your calipers, and if they are dual pin (two bolts holding them on) and have the number 60 stamped on the outside, you can just buy caliper BRACKETS and the larger rotors, and that would be all you needed. If you have the number 54 on your caliper you will need new calipers and brackets.

Upgrading only the rears is DEFINITELY a bad idea. I have done all my disc swaps without changing the proportioning valve, and to be honest it is less than ideal as the back brakes lock up too close to the fronts locking up, or even first in some situations. If you upgrade only the rears, even with the proper proportioning valve it will likely lock up the backs first ALL the time. Which will be like pulling the e-brake whenever you're in a panic stop (ie making things much worse).

I have done 4 wheel discs on the 21mm master cylinder (#1 cast onto the end of it) and it just makes you have a lot of pedal travel. It can feel mushy. It will stop, but when you REALLY NEED to stop, the extra fractions of a second it takes to grab hard while your foot is mashing down, could be sorely missed. Thats a worst case scenario but be aware of it before you decide.

Also, as rbryant alluded to, keeping your 94 knuckles means you dont have to get an alignment. On the other hand, if you put 89 knuckles on a 94, the alignment will be so far off that you absolutely would not even be able to drive it to an alignment shop. You would either have to tow it or adjust it yourself before you could even leave the driveway. I have done that swap both ways (new on old and old on new) and it throws the alignment WAAAAY off.


This is a case where something from a 91+ Dodge Dynasty is useful.

(from KC article)

LOL. Still not much love for dynasty, i guess. My first 11" disc upgrade was on a dynasty, which involved modding the hub to fit the axle. They're still on there..

[Daytana]

I am going to do it right (using the correct master and prop) but I changed my mind about swapping to 11" all around. I am just going to keep the stock fronts and use a normal sized solid disc setup in the rear to keep the weight down and not have to worry about swapping the fronts out as well. I removed A LOT of weight from the Lebaron already and it feels awesome.